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Subject: How is this game for AP prone players ? rss

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Eric Robert
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I'm interested in this game to play with my wife.

But she's a bit on the AP side.

How would you compare to The Castles of Burgundy ?

Thank you
 
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Jason Brown
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Alexandria
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Oh man, I wouldn't recommend this for AP prone players. Every card has 4 possible uses and there are 6 different specialty stalls to deliver to. The oodles of choices are what I love about this game, but it may work against you here. I haven't even mentioned the area control market mini-game component...

Compared to CoB, I'd say LG has much more going on. The tile placement in CoB is sometimes tough, but you really only ever have to decide between 2-3 spaces.
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Steve Cohn
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My wife and I are big fans of both games. Though the complexity is slightly higher, La Granja plays faster for us than Castles of Burgundy.

La Granja has multi-use cards that--for your first two or three plays--might slow things down a bit. You need to determine how you want to use your cards, as a farm extension, as a field, as a market barrow or as a helper. But you will be doing that twice on turn one, then once a turn for the rest of the game (special abilities may change that). Getting more cards and playing more cards, as you are able, is usually advantageous, but again, the player needs to decide how and where to use each card.

Once you get used to that flow it's a very smooth game and the turns go quite quickly. Income, Delivery, and Siesta phases go very fast, it's really the cards that take a little time, and once you know them a little better, it really plays well.

Hope that helps!
~Steve
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Dave Moser
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I'm going to side with Jason.

There's more that just the cards to deal with here when it comes to AP. And to make it worse (or better, depending on what you enjoy), it's a lot of completely different kinds of decisions. In my own experience that makes AP worse, because you can't just get in a groove of evaluating the same "equation" over and over.

Yes, you have the cards - every time you play one you have to choose to let go of the other 3 ways you could have played it. AP nightmare.

But then... Do I want a roof tile? Which one? Do I focus on barrows or buildings? If the latter, which buildings? Which dice do I take during production? Etc.

In addition, there are economic conversions that are available to you at all times that you have to be conscious of. Is now the time to pay to press those grapes into oil? Is it worth selling my pig to go for that nice roof tile? I've got this crate of trade goods just sitting there full of possibilities. When should I cash it in, and for what???

Then you get to "Which donkey tile do I play?", which is itself a chewy little piece of AP gristle: How many things do I want to deliver? Which donkey tiles will I want available in the next round? How many optional deliveries do I have available? How badly do I want to move on the siesta track?

I don't consider myself AP prone at all, but it takes me a long time to play La Granja. YMMV. YWMMV.

My advice. Buy it ASAP, and then find someone other than your wife to play it with.


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ode.
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I see it a little differently. I have an opinion on how things are with decisions in games.

To my personal view, the multi-use cards are not AP prone. The guys are right about having to decide pro one use and against three uses. But that is most of the time not AP. It is a matter of not being able to make decisions. That is something different than AP. AP is about having so much to think about that you need the time to think all through. And some people fall into paralysis doing this... But finally make an educated decision once they analyzed everything.

There are many people out there not being able to take such decisions. That is different.

So to my personal opinion the multi-use card system is prone to people who are not good in making decisions. But there is another aspect of the game and that is definitly AP.

The last round, maybe the last two rounds (but most of the time the last round), you need to think very hard how to sqeeze the most points out of everything. Make a delivery here, get a bonus there, use that bonus and take bonus deliveries and so on... There are many chain reactions and they get longer and harder in the end. If the game is prone to AP I'd say this is the point you will struggle with.

So, if I'd recommend this to you I'd ask: What type of a player is your wife? Is it hard for her to take a decision where she needs to let 3 other things go? Then you'd have a problem because the game is in it's core about those decisions. The other stuff is usual euro-game stuff: Optimize your VP harvest...

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Eric Robert
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Thank you everyone !

I think I'll pass for now.

I'll probably go with Viticulture Essential Edition even if it look a bit light for my taste.

Or maybe The Manhattan Project: Energy Empire when the reprint is in store.
 
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ode.
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If you like the dice in Burgundy maybe Delphi would be a good recommendation to you.
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Eric Robert
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bayerbube wrote:
If you like the dice in Burgundy maybe Delphi would be a good recommendation to you.


For whatever reason(I don't remember why), Delphi has no appeal to me, I will consider it again, thanks.
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Michael
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alta_bob wrote:
I'll probably go with ... [or] maybe The Manhattan Project: Energy Empire when the reprint is in store.

Excellent choice!
 
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