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Subject: A reminder about spoilers rss

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David Latimore
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I've been seeing a lot of people posting scenario names in post titles etc. Please remember, these are considered spoilers. Very mild spoilers, but still spoilers.

We have the following request from Isaac, the designer:

Quote:
5. Any plot points or story elements found in the scenario book or town records. Please reference all scenarios by their number.
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mike heim
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I wish that Isaac's PLEASE READ: About Spoilers post could be made as a Sticky:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1688250/please-read-request...
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Kilo Force
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"Threads can be pinned within the various game forums, at the discretion of the forum moderators."

"a pinned thread is otherwise like any other thread - the original author can edit the first post, people can respond, etc. Pinning just keeps it on the front page."

Looks like someone just needs to contact Matthew M (Octavian) (https://boardgamegeek.com/user/Octavian) or one of the other Forum Admins.

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/4478406#4478406
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Sky Zero
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The spoiler police are out of control. It's the Internet. I recommend not visiting the Gloomhaven page as you may be subject to the fact that potions and swords exist in the game.

And there's armor you can purchase. Things like leather, chain, and plate. surprise

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Vince R.
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Well, it's the original request of the designer, and main story line scenario names do hint at the story outcomes, so kind of a no brainer.

People visit these forums for answers. I'm not typically a big spoiler avoider, but a big portion of this game is all of the reveals in content and story.
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David Latimore
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skyzero wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The spoiler police are out of control. It's the Internet. I recommend not visiting the Gloomhaven page as you may be subject to the fact that potions and swords exist in the game.

And there's armor you can purchase. Things like leather, chain, and plate. surprise




Fixed that for you.
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Kilo Force
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Octavian (admin) pinned the thread for me.
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Byron Campbell
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Isaac designed the game, but he does not run these forums. Sorry, but the game is no less enjoyable if you know a scenario's name ahead of time. People should be smart enough to realize for themselves what constitutes a major spoiler, just as people should know the risks of venturing onto an online forum. In my experience, excessive use of spoiler tags is far more destructive than using them intelligently and sparingly. If everything is marked with spoiler tags, I have no way of knowing whether clicking to unhide it will be something benign like an item name or a major plot/mechanics revelation.
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Brian C
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I dunno, all the guff that KDM gets (those guys, they are just in it for the boobs, y'know) -- those KDM forums have been around for years now and haven't had any issue with spoilers that I can remember.

You might hear how you can crit the White Lion's ding dong. That's the one spoiler consistently leaked.

But that game is all about spoilers. Without that spoiler content, there's no game in that huge box, not really. So we err on the side of caution usually. It's mostly been the same here, except for this odd sort of spoiler backlash: "you can't tell me what is spoilery and what isn't!" versus "Oh did that spoil something for you? Here let me fix it for the next guy."

Not saying you guys are horrible people or anything. Just found it curious how those immature.. boob-googlers over in the KDM forums have managed to get this right without so much as a hitch, where over here keeping spoiler content off the boards is much less a communal effort, and is more the work of a smaller group of concerned individuals.

If collectively naming yourself is a mark of a close-knit society, maybe the KDMers need to come up with a name for themselves, too.
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Vince R.
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kittenhoarder wrote:
Isaac designed the game, but he does not run these forums. Sorry, but the game is no less enjoyable if you know a scenario's name ahead of time. People should be smart enough to realize for themselves what constitutes a major spoiler, just as people should know the risks of venturing onto an online forum. In my experience, excessive use of spoiler tags is far more destructive than using them intelligently and sparingly. If everything is marked with spoiler tags, I have no way of knowing whether clicking to unhide it will be something benign like an item name or a major plot/mechanics revelation.


1) It's actually easier not to type out the title, just stop at the number. Why type "Questions on Scenario 27 - The Thing That Is Happening" when you can just stop at 27? It's not like anyone is asking you to go out of your way.

2) The titles do reveal plot line elements for the main story line. Not a big deal for me, I don't think it ruins it for me, but just don't use them in the post title.

3) As far Isaac, he made a request, not a demand. You could be nice about it, or push back on it for absolutely no reason.
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Luke
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kittenhoarder wrote:
Isaac designed the game, but he does not run these forums.


No one has claimed that Isaac runs these forums, so please don't pretend they are because it will derail the conversation.

kittenhoarder wrote:

Sorry, but the game is no less enjoyable if you know a scenario's name ahead of time.


This is clearly a subjective statement. Obviously it is a spoiler for a group of people or else they wouldn't continue to request tags and #'s.

kittenhoarder wrote:

People should be smart enough to realize for themselves what constitutes a major spoiler, just as people should know the risks of venturing onto an online forum. In my experience, excessive use of spoiler tags is far more destructive than using them intelligently and sparingly.


None of that means you can't have basic consideration for your fellow Gloomhaven community members.

kittenhoarder wrote:

If everything is marked with spoiler tags, I have no way of knowing whether clicking to unhide it will be something benign like an item name or a major plot/mechanics revelation.


Well, in that case ask people to provide more descriptive spoiler tags. I do my best to describe generally what's inside. If I don't, feel free to ask me to clarify. I don't mind doing so.

It isn't much of an argument either. People have asked for a basic consideration. It is not hard to play along.

Why would you choose not to do a simple thing like this? This isn't a big ask.

I've played a good chunk. I know a bunch of stuff. I still use spoiler tags and try to refer to things by #. I do my best, and it doesn't take much.




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Byron Campbell
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minigno wrote:
kittenhoarder wrote:
Isaac designed the game, but he does not run these forums. Sorry, but the game is no less enjoyable if you know a scenario's name ahead of time. People should be smart enough to realize for themselves what constitutes a major spoiler, just as people should know the risks of venturing onto an online forum. In my experience, excessive use of spoiler tags is far more destructive than using them intelligently and sparingly. If everything is marked with spoiler tags, I have no way of knowing whether clicking to unhide it will be something benign like an item name or a major plot/mechanics revelation.


1) It's actually easier not to type out the title, just stop at the number. Why type "Questions on Scenario 27 - The Thing That Is Happening" when you can just stop at 27? It's not like anyone is asking you to go out of your way.


It is only easier if you are sitting in front of the game while typing up the thread. Otherwise, it may be impossible to remember the number on a Personal Quest or Road Event card. I agree that the numbers are useful and should be used when possible, but let's have some perspective. It is more work for the people asking questions, and that might mean people ask fewer questions or talk less about the game. In addition, people ANSWERING questions or responding will be more likely to recognize a descriptive title than a number. That's sort of the point of titles: to be memorable. I want these forums to thrive.

Quote:
2) The titles do reveal plot line elements for the main story line. Not a big deal for me, I don't think it ruins it for me, but just don't use them in the post title.


I made a thread about the scenario
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Vibrant Grotto
. That title is not a spoiler in any way, and I think most people are intelligent enough to differentiate between that and a title that might spoil a major plot element. Again, for overall utility, I respectfully disagree with Isaac's stance and would prefer to see things like this not hidden away unless it is actually a spoiler.

Quote:
3) As far Isaac, he made a request, not a demand. You could be nice about it, or push back on it for absolutely no reason.


I think I'm being nice. I'm not driving past the line at Barnes and Noble shouting
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Snape kills Dumbledore!
I'm merely questioning whether the current community stance on what constitutes a spoiler is excessive. I clearly am not doing it for "absolutely no reason"; have some empathy. I listed a few good reasons in my original post.

Quote:
No one has claimed that Isaac runs these forums, so please don't pretend they are because it will derail the conversation.


The subtext of this entire discussion is that Isaac's request is the definitive statement on what constitutes a spoiler in this game. I think it's very relevant to point out that his request does not reflect official BGG policy.

I've already made my main point about overused spoiler tags doing more harm than good, so that's the extent of my contribution to the topic. I'll always try to be considerate of my fellow players when posting, which I think is the shared goal of the whole community.
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David Latimore
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kittenhoarder wrote:
Quote:
No one has claimed that Isaac runs these forums, so please don't pretend they are because it will derail the conversation.


The subtext of this entire discussion is that Isaac's request is the definitive statement on what constitutes a spoiler in this game. I think it's very relevant to point out that his request does not reflect official BGG policy.

I've already made my main point about overused spoiler tags doing more harm than good, so that's the extent of my contribution to the topic. I'll always try to be considerate of my fellow players when posting, which I think is the shared goal of the whole community.


As far as his request for scenario #s instead of names go, my assumption, as someone only several scenarios in, is that there are at least some scenario names that would be spoiler-ish, and it's just simpler to request that all scenarios be referred to by number than to request that #20, #51, #37, and #39 be referred to only by number.

My assumption is, as the guy that knows all the spoilers, he is making that request for a reason.

So, for the many many scenario names that aren't spoilers, I figure it's just a good habit to refer to them by number.
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Vince R.
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kittenhoarder wrote:
minigno wrote:
kittenhoarder wrote:
Isaac designed the game, but he does not run these forums. Sorry, but the game is no less enjoyable if you know a scenario's name ahead of time. People should be smart enough to realize for themselves what constitutes a major spoiler, just as people should know the risks of venturing onto an online forum. In my experience, excessive use of spoiler tags is far more destructive than using them intelligently and sparingly. If everything is marked with spoiler tags, I have no way of knowing whether clicking to unhide it will be something benign like an item name or a major plot/mechanics revelation.


1) It's actually easier not to type out the title, just stop at the number. Why type "Questions on Scenario 27 - The Thing That Is Happening" when you can just stop at 27? It's not like anyone is asking you to go out of your way.


It is only easier if you are sitting in front of the game while typing up the thread. Otherwise, it may be impossible to remember the number on a Personal Quest or Road Event card. I agree that the numbers are useful and should be used when possible, but let's have some perspective. It is more work for the people asking questions, and that might mean people ask fewer questions or talk less about the game. In addition, people ANSWERING questions or responding will be more likely to recognize a descriptive title than a number. That's sort of the point of titles: to be memorable. I want these forums to thrive.

Quote:
2) The titles do reveal plot line elements for the main story line. Not a big deal for me, I don't think it ruins it for me, but just don't use them in the post title.


I made a thread about the scenario
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Vibrant Grotto
. That title is not a spoiler in any way, and I think most people are intelligent enough to differentiate between that and a title that might spoil a major plot element. Again, for overall utility, I respectfully disagree with Isaac's stance and would prefer to see things like this not hidden away unless it is actually a spoiler.

Quote:
3) As far Isaac, he made a request, not a demand. You could be nice about it, or push back on it for absolutely no reason.


I think I'm being nice. I'm not driving past the line at Barnes and Noble shouting
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Snape kills Dumbledore!
I'm merely questioning whether the current community stance on what constitutes a spoiler is excessive. I clearly am not doing it for "absolutely no reason"; have some empathy. I listed a few good reasons in my original post.

Quote:
No one has claimed that Isaac runs these forums, so please don't pretend they are because it will derail the conversation.


The subtext of this entire discussion is that Isaac's request is the definitive statement on what constitutes a spoiler in this game. I think it's very relevant to point out that his request does not reflect official BGG policy.

I've already made my main point about overused spoiler tags doing more harm than good, so that's the extent of my contribution to the topic. I'll always try to be considerate of my fellow players when posting, which I think is the shared goal of the whole community.


We are only talking about scenario numbers in this instance. It's pretty easy to remember which number you were having trouble with/had a question on. It also isn't that hard for helping. In fact I couldn't tell you the titles of scenarios 4,5, 14, 19 etc...but I know that I did them and generally remember the overall gist of each.

I don't expect numbers on personal quests etc, but I don't think those details are going into thread titles. And it's easy to break up general descriptions into specifics in spoiler tags inside of a thread.

Your particular scenario instance is fine, but main line story quests can give some ideas away.
 
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Luke
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kittenhoarder wrote:
I'll always try to be considerate of my fellow players when posting, which I think is the shared goal of the whole community.


Sorry about that. Feel like I came across as pretty harsh.

I'm not trying to paint you as a heartless monster hellbent on the destruction of others' happiness.
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Oh my God and the irony of this thread is that you actually spoiled a Harry Potter moment for me!!! I was not expecting a reference to THAT in a Gloomhaven post!!!



NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!


**I know I know I'm the one that clicked on the spoiler box! I'll tell you what though, my jaw just dropped in shock!!!

**this reply is not meant as an attack on you in any way whatsoever I just had to share the comedic irony of this moment!
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David Latimore
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I agree, spoilers shoild be labelled with what kind of spoiler they are.
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Vince R.
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David,
Is the term Aesther a spoiler? I didn't want to click on your most recent post because I didn't know what it was and I feel like it's a new character class. Maybe change the title of that thread?
 
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Vince R.
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TootyBonture wrote:
Oh my God and the irony of this thread is that you actually spoiled a Harry Potter moment for me!!! I was not expecting a reference to THAT in a Gloomhaven post!!!



NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!


**I know I know I'm the one that clicked on the spoiler box! I'll tell you what though, my jaw just dropped in shock!!!

**this reply is not meant as an attack on you in any way whatsoever I just had to share the comedic irony of this moment!


If it's any consolation, if you are actually interested in the HP stuff, it's still very much worth knowing how the story continues from there, even while knowing that.
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David Latimore
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minigno wrote:
David,
Is the term Aesther a spoiler? I didn't want to click on your most recent post because I didn't know what it was and I feel like it's a new character class. Maybe change the title of that thread?


I don't believe it is. Although it is a term one would only normally learn about after several sessions, it's something really mundane about the world.

Extremely mild spoiler about the box art
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Also there is an Aesther on the Gloomhaven box art, you just don't know as a player what the race is called.


Does anyone else think it is a spoiler? I'd be interested in opinions.
 
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Vince R.
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Cool, I just wasn't sure and didn't want to check to find out
 
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Dano Fish
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minigno wrote:
TootyBonture wrote:
Oh my God and the irony of this thread is that you actually spoiled a Harry Potter moment for me!!! I was not expecting a reference to THAT in a Gloomhaven post!!!



NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!


**I know I know I'm the one that clicked on the spoiler box! I'll tell you what though, my jaw just dropped in shock!!!

**this reply is not meant as an attack on you in any way whatsoever I just had to share the comedic irony of this moment!


If it's any consolation, if you are actually interested in the HP stuff, it's still very much worth knowing how the story continues from there, even while knowing that.


Sometimes spoilers serve to pique one's interest and anticipation even more. This is certainly the case here! I had gotten far enough to believe that Snape is a good guy....I assume Dumbledore is.... Now I'm just dying to know, is that right? Wrong? More nuanced than good and bad? How did this event come to pass?!?!
 
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