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Subject: More 2-player Mayhem, or Are You Playing Baseball, or What? rss

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Geoff Burkman
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Apologies in advance for my foot-dragging with this one. Another bucolic joust from a month or so ago, the results of this one may surprise you. Or not. Pure revision cards, deal ten, drop three. Ron has the button, having lost whatever prior bout we had.

Round One/Fences
Ron – Occ/Seasonal Worker
Geoff – 3W(3)
Ron – 1R(1)
Geoff – SP + Rammed Clay (1C)

The only thing out of the ordinary in the opening moves is Ron's 1Reed draw. I can only wonder which Minor he has in store as I claim the button in pursuit of my own stratagem.

Current Status
Geoff – 2Wood Rooms, 2 Peeps, 3f, 3W/1C, 1 MnImp
Ron – 2Wood Rooms, 2 Peeps, 2f, 1R, 1 Occ

Round Two/MIMI
Geoff – 1C(2)
Ron – Occ(-1f)/Assistant Tiller
Geoff – SP + Scullery (-1W/1C)
Ron – 3W(3)

With MIMI in the house, I can't resist the clay. Ron ocks again, ramping up the DL for himself, and I step on the button to activate a favorite revision Minor.* Ron spikes the wood, as expected.

*Which, oddly enough, I still cannot find on play-agricola.com. I really, really wish they'd update their card roster for the revised game. Really.

Current Status
Geoff – 2Wood Rooms, 2 Peeps, 3f, 2W/2C, 2 MnImp
Ron – 2Wood Rooms, 2 Peeps, 1f, 3W/1R, 2 Occ

Round Three/Sheep Geoff - 1f
Geoff – 1R(2)
Ron – Fish(3f)
Geoff – 3W(3)
Ron - Occ(-1f)/Consultant (3C)

I snap up the reed,* Ron restocks his larder, and I top off building materials. Ron unleashes yet another Ock,** cleansing any thoughts of clay denial from my mind.

*Though briefly tempted to go fishing...

**Note that the linked mock-up does not match the finished card.

Current Status
Geoff – 2Wood Rooms, 2 Peeps, 4f, 5W/2C/2R, 2 MnImp
Ron – 2Wood Rooms, 2 Peeps, 3f, 3W/3C/1R, 3 Occ

Round Four/Grain Utilization Geoff – 1f
Geoff – MIMI/Fp2 (-2C)
Ron – DL(2f) + 1G/PF
Geoff – SP + Hand Plow (PF> r9 -1W)
Ron – 3W(3)

I fire up a cookery, Ron circumspectly cashes in on a visit to the DL, and I step on the button, a possible mistake given the Minor I play.* Ron spikes the lumber once more.

*I've momentarily taken myself out of the expansion race.

Current Status
Geoff – 2Wood Rooms, 2 Peeps, 1f, 4W/2R, 1 MjImp/3 MnImp
Ron – 2Wood Rooms, 2 Peeps, 1f, 6W/3C/1R, 1G, 1PF, 3 Occ

Round Five/Renovation + MIMI Geoff – 1f
Geoff – Sheep(3)burn2
Ron – 1R(2)
Geoff – SP + Caravan (-3W/3f)
Ron – BR(1) + x (-5W/2R)

I hem and haw, but ultimately can't risk Ron scattering the woolies, a favorite diversion of his. He pounces on the reed, and I unveil my master plan: a button-stepping cheap room. Ron counters with a room of his own, leaving him in a strong position no matter what comes up next Round.*

*I'll leave it to Constant Reader to figure out why that's true.

Current Status
Geoff – 2Wood Rooms, 2 Peeps, 6f, 1W/2R, 1sh, 1 MjImp/4 MnImp
Ron – 3Wood Rooms, 2 Peeps, 1f, 1W/3C/1R, 1G, 1PF, 3 Occ

Round Six/Stone Geoff – 1f
Geoff – 3W(6)
Ron – SP + Loam Pit (-1f)
Geoff – DL(2f)
Ron – MIMI/Fp3 (-3C)

Rock, hard place. Conventional wisdom compels me to claim the cheap lumber, and quite naturally Ron snags the button, solidifying his DL combo.* I block the danger zone reflexively,** and Ron then builds his own cookery.

*Again, note the difference in the original card and the revised version (name change and cost).

**I may well have been better off doing something else, but what? Comments encouraged...

Current Status
Geoff – 2Wood Rooms, 2 Peeps, 9f, 7W/2R, 1sh, 1 MjImp/4 MnImp
Ron – 3Wood Rooms, 2 Peeps, 0f, 1W/1R, 1G, 1PF, 3 Occ, 1 MjImp

Round Seven/Family Growth + MI Geoff – 1f
Ron – FG + Basket (-1R)
Geoff – Occ/Firewood Collector
Ron – DL(2f) + 1V/3C/PF
Geoff – 1C(5)

Ron hires on, thumping down another food source that will actually do him little good. I get in an Ock edgewise; it will prove worthwhile, though somewhat premature. Ron now scavenges the DL to full effect; I respond by clearing clay. Ron burns off a veggie/grain combo at harvest, and on we go into the midgame.

Current Status
Geoff – 2Wood Rooms, 2 Peeps, 6f, 7W/5C/2R, 1sh, 1 Occ, 1 MjImp/4 MnImp
Ron – 3Wood Rooms, 3 Peeps, 0f, 1W/3C, 2PF, 3 Occ, 1 MjImp/1 MnImp

Round Eight/Vegetables Geoff – 1f
Ron – 3W(4) +3f
Geoff – 1S(3)
Ron – 1R(3)
Geoff – FG + Herring Pot (-1C)
Ron – SP + Bottles (-3C/3f)

Ron snaps up construction materials and scores a hefty Minor, while I claim the cheap masonry and finally add another worker. Yay, me!

Current Status
Geoff – 2Wood Rooms, 3 Peeps, 7f, 7W/4C/2R/3S, 1sh, 1 Occ, 1 MjImp/5 MnImp
Ron – 3Wood Rooms, 3 Peeps, 0f, 5W/3R, 2PF, 3 Occ, 1 MjImp/2 MnImp

Round Nine/Boar Geoff – 2f/PF
Ron – Sheep(4)burn4
Geoff – BR(1) + x (-5W/2R)
Ron – 3W(5)
Geoff – Fish(6f ) +3f>
Ron – DL(2f) + 1V/3C/PF
Geoff – FG + x

Shock of shocks, Ron refills his larder. I promptly build a room, Ron vacuums up the lumber, I fish,* and Ron visits his DL cornucopia. I add another worker, ever hopeful.

*Gotta get something outta that Herring Pot, daggone it!

Current Status
Geoff – 3Wood Rooms, 4 Peeps, 8f, 2W/4C/3S, 1sh, 1PF, 1 Occ, 1 MjImp/5 MnImp
Ron – 3Wood Rooms, 3 Peeps, 4f, 10W/3C/3R, 1V, 3PF, 3 Occ, 1 MjImp/2 MnImp

Round Ten/CattleGeoff – 2f
Ron – BR(1) + x (-5W/2R)
Geoff – 1R(2)
Ron – 3W(3)
Geoff – Occ(-1f)/Roof Ballester (3S -1f)
Ron – FG + Milk Jug (-1C)
Geoff – Ren>Clay + Fp2>CH4 (-3C/1R)
Geoff – SP + Beanfield (-1f)

Ron presses on with another room, restocked lumber, and a new hire and late-game food Minor. Meanwhile, I pursue upgrades and a button heist. We plunge toward the endgame neck-and-neck in actions, 23 per, but I'm not feeling much thunder.*

*The heat lightning is getting a bit nerve-wracking, though.

Current Status
Geoff – 3Clay Rooms, 4 Peeps, 8f, 2W/1C/1R/6S, 1sh, 1PF, 2 Occ, 1 MjImp/6 MnImp
Ron – 4Wood Rooms, 4 Peeps, 4f, 8W/2C/1R, 1V, 3PF, 3 Occ, 1 MjImp/3 MnImp

Round Eleven/Stone Geoff – 1f
Geoff – Boar(3)burn2+1sh
Ron – 3W(3)
Geoff – PF + 1W
Ron – SP + Hard Porclein (-1C)
Geoff – 1C(4)
Ron – Cattle(2)burn1 + 3f + g/1f
Geoff – 1G + 1W
Ron – DL(2f) + 1G/3C/PF

I stumble, I think, with an unnecessary immolation of animals, and Ron promptly clears the timber. I flog firewood collecting and grab some needed clay, while Ron reclaims the button, feeds himself fat, and raids the DL a fourth time. Harvest is perfunctory.

Current Status
Geoff – 3Clay Rooms, 4 Peeps, 8f, 4W/5C/1R/6S, 1G, 1b, 2PF, 2 Occ, 1 MjImp/6 MnImp
Ron – 4Wood Rooms, 4 Peeps, 4f, 11W/4C/1R, 1G/1V, 1c, 4PF, 3 Occ, 1 MjImp/4 MnImp

Round Twelve/Cultivation Geoff – 1f
Ron – MIMI/Well (2f> -1W/4C)
Geoff – 3W(3)
Ron – 1S(4)
Geoff – SP + Bread Paddle (-1W)
Ron – DL(2f) + 1G/3C/PF
Geoff – PF + 1W
Ron – Cu (PF + 2Gf/1Vf)
Geoff – 1G + 1W

Ron now absconds with the Well I likely should have claimed at first opportunity. I grab lumber, Ron snaps up bargain basement rocks, and I swipe the button with a useless Minor.* I rather stupidly settle for plowing instead of full cultivation, which Ron promptly does, and I squeak another cord via Firewood Collector.

*In my defense, I might have been able to use it, theoretically, and the requisite wood was unlikely to make a difference in fencing. Small recompense, I know, but at least I guaranteed first crack at that fifth peep. In retrospect, it also appears I forgot to claim the 1food the revised card offers.

Current Status
Geoff – 3Clay Rooms, 4 Peeps, 9f, 8W/5C/1R/6S, 2G, 1b, 3PF, 2 Occ, 1 MjImp/7 MnImp
Ron – 4Wood Rooms, 4 Peeps, 6f, 10W/3C/1R/4S, 1c, 5PF(6g/2v), 3 Occ, 2 MjImp/4 MnImp

Round Thirteen/Family Growth w/o Ron – 1f
Geoff – FG w/o
Ron – Fences(10) (-10W)
Geoff – Cu (PF + 2Gf) + 1W
Ron – Sheep(4)
Geoff – PF + 1W
Ron – DL(2f) + 1V/3C/PF
Geoff – Ren>Stone (-1R/3S) + Pottery (-2C/2S)
Ron – Cattle(2) +3f + g/1f

After my obvious three-pointer, the penultimate Round offers only limited opportunity for blocking as Ron and I scramble for points. Ron's dual pastures allow him the luxury of last-minute ranching and a last crack at the DL; I farm mightily and fortify my house, denying Ron a favored crafting Major. I slough a brick at harvest; Ron's animals happily rut.

Current Status
Geoff – 3Stone Rooms, 5 Peeps, 3f, 10W/2C/1S, 2G, 1b, 5PF(4g), 2 Occ, 2 MjImp/7 MnImp
Ron – 4Wood Rooms, 4 Peeps, 4f, 6C/1R/4S, 2G/2V, 5sh/4c, 6PF(4g/1v), 2[2x1]p, 3 Occ, 2 MjImp/4 MnImp

Round Fourteen/Renovation + Fences Ron – 1f
Geoff – Boar(2)burn2
Ron – 1S(4)
Geoff – 3W(6)
Ron – MIMI/Stone Oven (8f -1C/3S/2G)
Geoff – Fences(15) (-15W)
Ron – 1R(4)
Geoff – 1V
Ron – Ren>C (-4C/1R) + Basketmaker's Workshop (-2R/2S)
Geoff – Sheep(1)

Somehow, I manage to scrape together a proper set of pastures, void a few negatives, and feed my family. Ron racks up another chunk of points while refusing to hire on a fifth worker; I think he knows where things stand. I slough another clay at harvest; it is done.

Current Status
Geoff – 3Stone Rooms, 5 Peeps, 1f, 1W/1C/1S, 4G/1V, 1sh/1b, 5PF(2g), 2[2x1]2[1x1]p, 2 Occ, 2 MjImp/7 MnImp
Ron – 4Clay Rooms, 4 Peeps, 4f, 1C/2R/3S, 2G/3V, 4sh/5c, 6PF(2g), 2[2x1]p, 3 Occ, 4 MjImp/4 MnImp

Final Score (Ocks Played, Minors/Majors Played)(Wood taken/bonus)(Rounds as SP)(Total Primary(Special) Actions)(PPA*)(Food Spent)
Primary Actions are those first taken when a player claims a space with a family member. In sessions of Farmers on the Moor, special actions are counted as Primary actions, with their subtotal indicated in parentheses. * - Points per Primary Action.

Geoff – 37 (2 Occ, 7/2)(21/6)(8)(40)(0.925)(45)
Ron – 46 (3 Occ, 4/4)(21/0)(6)(39)(1.179)(45)

Player Fields Pastures Grain Veg Sheep Boar Cattle Unused Stables House Peeps Pts Bonus
Geoff 5(4) 4(4) 6(3) 1(1) 1(1) 1(1) 0(-1) 1(-1) 0(0) 3S(6) 5(15) (4) (0)
Ron 6(4) 2(2) 4(2) 3(3) 4(2) 0(-1) 5(3) 1(-1) 0(0) 4C(4) 4(12) (15) (1)


Bits & Pieces
The power of Ron's DL combo is evident. Outright wood draws: identical. Food expenditures: identical. Actions taken: virtually identical. Start player advantage: virtually identical. But Ron's six enhanced trips to DL provided a massive return that provided all the edge he needed.

Hmm. What was that again about the revision card set being “balanced?” whistle

37 isn't an out-of-the-ordinary winning score, but not this time. Missing out on first growth didn't help, but my woes went deeper than that. This was as blatant a case of an opponent's powerful combo proving itself to be insurmountable, a contest I knew was lost well before it was over.

Comments and critiques are certainly welcome; beyond that, any transcription and/or analytical errors are mine and mine alone. I hope this report has been useful, especially to newer Agricola players. Meanwhile, I'll admit to enjoying recent exposure to Stone Age, re-exposure to Chaos in the Old World, and the acquisition (finally!) of a copy of Caverna. Next report: oh, who knows? I'm still befuddled by the apparent disappearance of Scullery from the play-agricola card roster.

Thanks for reading, and happy gaming to all!
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James C
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Geoff, I enjoy reading these. Figure out a way to video these from above the table and it'll be twice as awesome! From a logistics point of view, how do you manage all the note taking while not slowing down the game?

My wife has had the same combo once and yes I think it would be pretty hard to outdo unless maybe you stole the DL every time. Of course I don't see how that would allow you to further your own plan.

I've never been compelled to play the Herring Pot. Unless you can play it really early and have another card that takes advantage of fishing. Am I right that you only went fishing once after playing it? Perhaps another occupation in that spot could have netted you more?
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Geoff Burkman
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SuperGLS wrote:
Geoff, I enjoy reading these. Figure out a way to video these from above the table and it'll be twice as awesome! From a logistics point of view, how do you manage all the note taking while not slowing down the game?

Glad you enjoyed! Keeping the record does slow things down a hair, to be honest (though not much), but equally truthfully, Ron and I tend to play at a sedate pace anyway. I'd love to do a video replay someday; there are some guys who post on YouTube who've done it and I find it fascinating, perhaps because they weren't experienced players and made numerous "mistakes." Maybe someday...

Quote:
My wife has had the same combo once and yes I think it would be pretty hard to outdo unless maybe you stole the DL every time. Of course I don't see how that would allow you to further your own plan.

Ayup. DL and/or Fishing combos are tough to counter.

Quote:
I've never been compelled to play the Herring Pot. Unless you can play it really early and have another card that takes advantage of fishing. Am I right that you only went fishing once after playing it? Perhaps another occupation in that spot could have netted you more?

Even used once, a 3food for a 1Clay is an okay swap. At the point I played it (first growth), I had no reason not to. And the 3Stone I nabbed prior was more valuable than another Ock.
 
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Nick Decktor
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based on a very limited sample set of two games, it seems like Ron is either getting luckier than you on drafts or just maybe doing a better job. You seem to play less Occs than I tend to and maybe more minors. You seem to take starting player when you already have it a startling amount to get minors down. Neither of you seems to believe in stables even the tiniest bit, but maybe that has something to do with there being less wood in your play environment.

Quote:
Round One/Fences
Ron – Occ/Seasonal Worker
Geoff – 3W(3)
Ron – 1R(1)
Geoff – SP + Rammed Clay (1C)

The only thing out of the ordinary in the opening moves is Ron's 1Reed draw. I can only wonder which Minor he has in store as I claim the button in pursuit of my own stratagem.

I agree that his 1 Reed on turn one is a little weird, especially since he was doing it to set up basket which is basically kind of awful. Why not DL for 2 food and a grain?

Quote:
Round Three/Sheep Geoff - 1f
Geoff – 1R(2)
Ron – Fish(3f)
Geoff – 3W(3)
Ron - Occ(-1f)/Consultant (3C)

Ron's turn 3 is pretty inexplicable to me. Why is he taking fishing at 3 with his first play when he gets the same + a field off of DL? Just to deny it to you when you already have plenty of food and a scullery? I understand that hes taking that third Occ so that he can get down loam pit, but why is he playing consultant when he has loam pit? Especially when you already hae enough clay to beat him to fireplace. so strange

Quote:
Round Four/Grain Utilization Geoff – 1f
Geoff – MIMI/Fp2 (-2C)
Ron – DL(2f) + 1G/PF
Geoff – SP + Hand Plow (PF> r9 -1W)
Ron – 3W(3)

I fire up a cookery, Ron circumspectly cashes in on a visit to the DL, and I step on the button, a possible mistake given the Minor I play.* Ron spikes the lumber once more.

*I've momentarily taken myself out of the expansion race.

Agree that the hand plow on turn 4 is weird, especially because it takes you out of building range and you already have starting player. I would have probably taken 3 wood to set up the possibility of building first and potentially getting two people ahead with caravan. As played, I don't know about the 3 sheep on turn 5. You have a decent food engine with scullery and the only cookery. I would have gone 3 wood again and build in front of Ron, and then try to caravan later.


Quote:
Ron counters with a room of his own, leaving him in a strong position no matter what comes up next Round.*

*I'll leave it to Constant Reader to figure out why that's true.


It took me disappointingly long to figure this out. My only defense is that I play with the extra family growth space and so tend to forget about jockeying for starting player to grow.

Quote:
Round Six/Stone Geoff – 1f
Geoff – 3W(6)
Ron – SP + Loam Pit (-1f)
Geoff – DL(2f)
Ron – MIMI/Fp3 (-3C)

Rock, hard place. Conventional wisdom compels me to claim the cheap lumber, and quite naturally Ron snags the button, solidifying his DL combo.* I block the danger zone reflexively,** and Ron then builds his own cookery.

*Again, note the difference in the original card and the revised version (name change and cost).

**I may well have been better off doing something else, but what? Comments encouraged...

Current Status
Geoff – 2Wood Rooms, 2 Peeps, 9f, 7W/2R, 1sh, 1 MjImp/4 MnImp
Ron – 3Wood Rooms, 2 Peeps, 0f, 1W/1R, 1G, 1PF, 3 Occ, 1 MjImp


yeah, DL seems really bad. You already have 7 food and its not like you're gonna block him on DL forever. You can't even starve him because he only needs to get 4 food in two plays which he can get with some combo of fireplace, DL, sheep and fishing. If he didn't have that grain your play becomes pretty amazing as I don't think he can generate the 5 food if you do DL on turn 6 and fishing on turn 7.

Better alternatives for you could have been an occ, building a room (or even a room and a stable!), maybe 4 clay.

Quote:
Round Nine/Boar Geoff – 2f/PF
Ron – Sheep(4)burn4
Geoff – BR(1) + x (-5W/2R)
Ron – 3W(5)
Geoff – Fish(6f ) +3f>
Ron – DL(2f) + 1V/3C/PF
Geoff – FG + x

Shock of shocks, Ron refills his larder. I promptly build a room, Ron vacuums up the lumber, I fish,* and Ron visits his DL cornucopia. I add another worker, ever hopeful.

*Gotta get something outta that Herring Pot, daggone it!


Did you not play a minor with this FG? Seems like a decent place for that hand plow you played earlier.

Quote:
Round Ten/CattleGeoff – 2f
Ron – BR(1) + x (-5W/2R)
Geoff – 1R(2)
Ron – 3W(3)
Geoff – Occ(-1f)/Roof Ballester (3S -1f)
Ron – FG + Milk Jug (-1C)
Geoff – Ren>Clay + Fp2>CH4 (-3C/1R)
Geoff – SP + Beanfield (-1f)


No idea what the urgency was on Ron taking BR. Seems to me like he should have done 2 reed, build (2) rooms, FG, none of which would have been blockable. As played, I don't know why you are renovating to clay and giving up your one food a turn rather than taking starting player and getting wood for another wood room which will give you more room to FG earlier and get you more stone off of your stone ballaster which I also would have delayed. As is, you're only getting 3 stone for an action and 2 food. If you're gonna be getting all of this stone, it seems like you should be using it on building new majors rather than just upgrading your fireplace to a hearth when you renovate.


Quote:
Round Eleven/Stone Geoff – 1f
Geoff – Boar(3)burn2+1sh
Ron – 3W(3)
Geoff – PF + 1W
Ron – SP + Hard Porclein (-1C)
Geoff – 1C(4)
Ron – Cattle(2)burn1 + 3f + g/1f
Geoff – 1G + 1W
Ron – DL(2f) + 1G/3C/PF

I stumble, I think, with an unnecessary immolation of animals, and Ron promptly clears the timber. I flog firewood collecting and grab some needed clay, while Ron reclaims the button, feeds himself fat, and raids the DL a fourth time. Harvest is perfunctory.

Agreed that the boar probably isn't necessary or isn't necessary with the first play. After he plays hard porcelain you need to get a major (probably well, but whatever) in before he gets to go first next round; I think that grain should have been a major improvement.
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Nick Decktor
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The power of Ron's DL combo is evident. Outright wood draws: identical. Food expenditures: identical. Actions taken: virtually identical. Start player advantage: virtually identical. But Ron's six enhanced trips to DL provided a massive return that provided all the edge he needed.

Hmm. What was that again about the revision card set being “balanced?” whistle


I think that the revised set is MORE balanced, but obviously not totally balanced. Really the issue is that they took out a lot of things that combo well together, but left in 4 cards that all work off of DL and are all available in 2 player. I'm pretty sure that if somebody had herring pot, canoe, and harpooner it would be pretty devastating as well (pay 1 wood and get 2 food + 2 reed + 3 food over 3 turns + 1 food per family member= 7-10 food per play + 2 reed), but harpooner only happens in 3+ player.

As they add more new cards it will likely balance out the DL combo by watering down the chances of it happening.

Actually, I'll add that there seem to be an awful lot of things that work off of having a ton of clay (such as hard porcelain and bottles! are we sure Ron isn't stacking the deck?) making loam pit even more powerful.
 
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Nick Decktor
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Quote:
Glad you enjoyed! Keeping the record does slow things down a hair, to be honest (though not much), but equally truthfully, Ron and I tend to play at a sedate pace anyway. I'd love to do a video replay someday; there are some guys who post on YouTube who've done it and I find it fascinating, perhaps because they weren't experienced players and made numerous "mistakes." Maybe someday...


I was wondering about this as well. I played a game last night with your rules (2 player, no extra space, pick 10 discard 3) and tried to take a photo after every pair of plays so that I could piece the game together later. Even doing THAT really slowed things down.
 
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Ryan Feathers
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I don't have the revised edition and the fact that not all of the cards are available to easily look at online really limits the use of these reports sadly. I can't follow along as well as I'd luck, but ah well. Still glad you're taking the time to write them up and maybe some day I'll get the revised edition and have the cards to review myself.

Else, have fun with Caverna! I absolutely love it. I sometimes debate if I like Agricola or Caverna more but I'm never quite sure. I tend to say I like Caverna a bit more, but I often think that may simply be because I play the Agricola app all the time and often have several online games running, while I can't get in games of Caverna whenever I want.

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Nick Decktor
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Ranior wrote:
I don't have the revised edition and the fact that not all of the cards are available to easily look at online really limits the use of these reports sadly. I can't follow along as well as I'd luck, but ah well. Still glad you're taking the time to write them up and maybe some day I'll get the revised edition and have the cards to review myself.

Else, have fun with Caverna! I absolutely love it. I sometimes debate if I like Agricola or Caverna more but I'm never quite sure. I tend to say I like Caverna a bit more, but I often think that may simply be because I play the Agricola app all the time and often have several online games running, while I can't get in games of Caverna whenever I want.



https://boardgamegeek.com/image/3397112/agricola-revised-edi...
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Geoff Burkman
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fiascos wrote:
I was wondering about this as well. I played a game last night with your rules (2 player, no extra space, pick 10 discard 3) and tried to take a photo after every pair of plays so that I could piece the game together later. Even doing THAT really slowed things down.


This is the best I can tell ya at the moment: session reporting
 
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Geoff Burkman
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Ranior wrote:
I don't have the revised edition and the fact that not all of the cards are available to easily look at online really limits the use of these reports sadly. I can't follow along as well as I'd luck, but ah well. Still glad you're taking the time to write them up and maybe some day I'll get the revised edition and have the cards to review myself.


Scullery is the only card I've been unable to link to so far. What kills me is I know it comes from an expansion deck, but I still can't find it. I'm guessing that no more than about a quarter of the revision cards are actually brand new to the Agricola universe. Almost all the revised edition carryovers from OG decks are unchanged, with a few exceptions like Hedge Keeper and Animal Tamer. There are a handful of name changes; Axe and Clay Pit spring to mind. The Majors are unchanged.
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Geoff Burkman
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Nick, I'll be back to respond to your other comments later, when I have a bit more time.
 
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Benjamin Kerenza
United Kingdom
Bradford
West Yorkshire
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MisterG wrote:
Ranior wrote:
I don't have the revised edition and the fact that not all of the cards are available to easily look at online really limits the use of these reports sadly. I can't follow along as well as I'd luck, but ah well. Still glad you're taking the time to write them up and maybe some day I'll get the revised edition and have the cards to review myself.


Scullery is the only card I've been unable to link to so far. What kills me is I know it comes from an expansion deck, but I still can't find it. I'm guessing that no more than about a quarter of the revision cards are actually brand new to the Agricola universe. Almost all the revised edition carryovers from OG decks are unchanged, with a few exceptions like Hedge Keeper and Animal Tamer. There are a handful of name changes; Axe and Clay Pit spring to mind. The Majors are unchanged.


Damn you I finally found it in the NL deck, I was hoping someone else was going to do that work:

Shack
 
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Geoff Burkman
United States
Kettering
Ohio
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fiascos wrote:
based on a very limited sample set of two games, it seems like Ron is either getting luckier than you on drafts or just maybe doing a better job. You seem to play less Occs than I tend to and maybe more minors. You seem to take starting player when you already have it a startling amount to get minors down. Neither of you seems to believe in stables even the tiniest bit, but maybe that has something to do with there being less wood in your play environment.


Oh, I'd definitely agree he got a better mix of cards than I did this game (even if I did get all my Minors out, one of which proved useless). A passing draft might well have made things tougher on him, but argument can be made he could have concealed things (not to mention that he'd have only gotten 7/7 cards and missed out on one or more of the DL cards).

I consider stables to be a poor investment unless you're pursuing a ranching strategy, or have tons of wood available anyway.

Quote:
Round One/Fences
Ron – Occ/Seasonal Worker
Geoff – 3W(3)
Ron – 1R(1)
Geoff – SP + Rammed Clay (1C)
...
I agree that his 1 Reed on turn one is a little weird, especially since he was doing it to set up basket which is basically kind of awful. Why not DL for 2 food and a grain?

I can't disagree, although it does serve to inhibit opposition reed-gathering. Who knows what evil lurks in the mind of Ron?

Quote:
Round Three/Sheep Geoff - 1f
Geoff – 1R(2)
Ron – Fish(3f)
Geoff – 3W(3)
Ron - Occ(-1f)/Consultant (3C)
....
Ron's turn 3 is pretty inexplicable to me. Why is he taking fishing at 3 with his first play when he gets the same + a field off of DL? Just to deny it to you when you already have plenty of food and a scullery? I understand that hes taking that third Occ so that he can get down loam pit, but why is he playing consultant when he has loam pit? Especially when you already hae enough clay to beat him to fireplace. so strange

Well, he only had one food at the time, but beyond that, it's a lovely example of Ron-play. He loves anything that smacks of denial to the opposition. It didn't hurt him this game, but I've seen him pay for his temerity many times.

Quote:
Round Four/Grain Utilization Geoff – 1f
Geoff – MIMI/Fp2 (-2C)
Ron – DL(2f) + 1G/PF
Geoff – SP + Hand Plow (PF> r9 -1W)
Ron – 3W(3)
....
I would have probably taken 3 wood to set up the possibility of building first and potentially getting two people ahead with caravan. As played, I don't know about the 3 sheep on turn 5. You have a decent food engine with scullery and the only cookery. I would have gone 3 wood again and build in front of Ron, and then try to caravan later.

Ayup. This was likely the critical juncture at which I lost the game. I was, I think, too worried about the superfluous woollies.


Quote:
Ron counters with a room of his own, leaving him in a strong position no matter what comes up next Round.*

*I'll leave it to Constant Reader to figure out why that's true.
....
It took me disappointingly long to figure this out. My only defense is that I play with the extra family growth space and so tend to forget about jockeying for starting player to grow.

The extra action tile certainly alters the parameters of growth jockeying, that's for sure!

Quote:
Round Nine/Boar Geoff – 2f/PF
Ron – Sheep(4)burn4
Geoff – BR(1) + x (-5W/2R)
Ron – 3W(5)
Geoff – Fish(6f ) +3f>
Ron – DL(2f) + 1V/3C/PF
Geoff – FG + x
....
Did you not play a minor with this FG? Seems like a decent place for that hand plow you played earlier.

The only thing I had available by now was Bread Paddle, which I deemed mostly irrelevant. Couldn't play Beanfield because I still needed another Ock to qualify it.

Quote:
Round Ten/CattleGeoff – 2f
Ron – BR(1) + x (-5W/2R)
Geoff – 1R(2)
Ron – 3W(3)
Geoff – Occ(-1f)/Roof Ballester (3S -1f)
Ron – FG + Milk Jug (-1C)
Geoff – Ren>Clay + Fp2>CH4 (-3C/1R)
Geoff – SP + Beanfield (-1f)
....
No idea what the urgency was on Ron taking BR. Seems to me like he should have done 2 reed, build (2) rooms, FG, none of which would have been blockable.

He knew I could block him with a stable build.

Quote:
As played, I don't know why you are renovating to clay and giving up your one food a turn rather than taking starting player and getting wood for another wood room which will give you more room to FG earlier and get you more stone off of your stone ballaster which I also would have delayed. As is, you're only getting 3 stone for an action and 2 food. If you're gonna be getting all of this stone, it seems like you should be using it on building new majors rather than just upgrading your fireplace to a hearth when you renovate.

whistle

Quote:
Round Eleven/Stone Geoff – 1f
Geoff – Boar(3)burn2+1sh
Ron – 3W(3)
Geoff – PF + 1W
Ron – SP + Hard Porclein (-1C)
Geoff – 1C(4)
Ron – Cattle(2)burn1 + 3f + g/1f
Geoff – 1G + 1W
Ron – DL(2f) + 1G/3C/PF
....
Agreed that the boar probably isn't necessary or isn't necessary with the first play. After he plays hard porcelain you need to get a major (probably well, but whatever) in before he gets to go first next round; I think that grain should have been a major improvement.

Yep, although by this point, it likely wouldn't have made much difference in the final standings.

Great comments, thanks!
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