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Subject: Designing special abilities for fat deck? rss

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Eric Pietrocupo
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I am working on various elements to create an unofficial expansion. One of them is that I want to players to buy buildings which are going to give a once per turn ability. Each race should have probably 5 buildings of their own.

Now one thing I will do is add a buildings that thin the deck, so that any race can deck thin what ever the scenario played. But another thing that I thought is that I also want it to be possible to play the game with a fat deck. Some races are more convenient with a fat deck than others, but I want to add the necessary buildings to make sure any race can be played with a thin or fat deck. It will be up to the player to decide which path to follow.

Now I am trying to find ideas of special abilities that could benefit fat deck, but not necessarily thin deck. That is my biggest issue right now, for example, in Star Realms, there are card drawing abilities which is somewhat the opposite of deck thinning abilities. Still, drawing more cards also benefit thin deck. Even if you draw 2 cards and discard 2 cards, it is still beneficial to thin decks.

So what kind of abilities can be designed to benefit fat deck without really advantaging thin decks?

Ideas so far that I found (with some inspiration from san juan):

- Search: for a card in deck or discard pile
- Lottery: reveal X cards from the deck and do something with the results.
- Bank or stack cards somewhere to do something like charge up a weapon, convert to a resource, etc.
- Draw cards after doing certain actions instead of before, allows to do more things, but not necessarily more powerful. A kind of way to make multiple weaker attacks for example. Not really sure.
- Reshuffle a set of cards from the discard pile into the deck to avoid reshuffling the whole discard pile.

Does anybody has some suggestions?
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Garrett
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Intriguing idea! I'm interested to see where this takes you.

Here's an idea for a stipulation you can place on a card to encourage fat decks. If you run out of cards in your deck, you do not shuffle your discard pile to form a new deck until after your turn ends. This way, you could have some awesome draw ability to dig through a fat deck, but now you may not be able to use any abilities that draw you cards if you've already burned through your deck that turn. Granted, this could also be bad for fat decks if they are at the end of their pile. Also, it might be easy to play around. You just play a draw ability first to cycle your deck before using the building card.

Another idea is to focus on the discard pile. With really thin decks, the majority of cards are in the deck or hand. The discard pile gets cycled so frequently that it usually doesn't have many cards in it. The issue here is stepping on Waiqar's toes and doing things too similar to what his undead already do.
 
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Eric Pietrocupo
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If you did not reshuffle you card in the middle of your turn, fat deck could help with draw more cards abilities. I could change the rule, but I rather prefer to build around it.

For the discard pile it can be interesting, or maybe control which cards get reshuffled into your deck (remove X cards before reshuffling).

This is why the undead are good with a fat deck, because they deal with the discard pile.
 
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m Vlad
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The Elves could spend influence to draw the top card of their discard.

The Humans could discard footmen and archers from hand to gain a card of that cost from the discard.

The Uthuk could destroy one of their units to gain lower level units from discard within the double of the discarded cards' cost.

The Dwarves could pay gold to draw cards.

The orcs could draw a card when they are left with 1 or 2 cards in hand.

The Undead could discard 2 reanimates do draw 1 cards.


The Bank is a great idea.

Having the option to store money is incredible, but I think the ability should be requiring some hand limit, for example:

"After drawing up to 4 cards, you may choose to take any number of cards from Bank within a 7 card hand limit.


Market - For each unit you play into combat this round place a 1Gold card in your Hand, facedown. You may destroy the next turn's hand to buy a unit.

And a Stronghold upgrade that grants you +2 Defense so buying a market would be a viable strategy.

Then, I would really like to see heroes for combat.

They would work as cities in my opinion with an ability, during combat.

Hero "X" - Exhaust this card to take back into your hand a card you've played into this combat.

Hero "Y" - Exhaust this card to force opponent to play a card from his hand first as the defender. Then, continue normal play.

Hero "Z" - Exhaust this card to play your gold card from hand in order to buy a unit during combat.

Hero etc.

There's so much they could've done with this game, It's a shame they stopped there.


I think voting action would be necessary to get these cards, and they should stay in the display as the others. One deck for each type, faceup.

For example, each start of round, each player places facedown in front of him a combined value of influence, money and combat, This forms the player order and each player gains the top card of one of these decks on his turn.

So the beginning of a scenario would become a balance of what to keep for the turn, what to discard for the "extra abilities".


Of course, just some thoughts.

Thank you for the initiative, I'd really like this game to become an even more interesting one. One of my favourite cardgames.



 
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Garrett
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larienna wrote:
If you did not reshuffle you card in the middle of your turn, fat deck could help with draw more cards abilities. I could change the rule, but I rather prefer to build around it.

I'm not suggesting you change the rule for the entire game. I'm suggesting you have certain cards that say something like, "Search your deck for 2 cards and add them to your hand. You may not shuffle your discard pile to reform your deck until after your turn, even if you run out of cards in your deck." It's a way to make a card with a stipulation that encourages fat decks to buy them, but makes thin decks think twice before adding it to the deck.
 
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Eric Pietrocupo
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Quote:
There's so much they could've done with this game, It's a shame they stopped there.


(I suggested making a Twilight Imperium card game like Rune age, not sure it will happen)

That is a problem with homemade expansion of deck builders. I cannot add cards that gets shuffled into the players deck.

Heroes would have been a wonderful idea, but I think It fits best as an in deck card.

So for many of your discard pile abilities, they could be triggered with lottery:

Reveal the top 3 card of your deck and do what ever idea you listed.

For banking, I was thinking like san juan building where you can stack cards under a building and then for each card in the stack you get something. Possibly the face of the card does not matter.

So you could could have a bank 1 card each turn or spend banked card as 1 gold each. Or add +1 to battle strength for each banked card.

This could allow fat deck to temporarily thin their deck. While thin deck will have a harder time stacking a lot of cards in there, or the cards will be too good to be banked.

So far my "design plan" for this expansion is:

-Buildings
-New runes
-New Scenario
-A deck of Rune monsters for cooperative/solo scenarios. Allow fighting an AI card vs card instead of card vs value
-Tokens to keep track of various stuff:
-A few rule fix.

Will probably be designed part by part and combined afterwards.
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