Recommend
25 
 Thumb up
 Hide
84 Posts
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » Conventions » WBC

Subject: One Last View From the Directors Chair rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Eric Brosius
United States
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
On a different topic, I read somewhere about more Don Greenwood prose on a Trial Events page, but I can't seem to find it. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Brosius
United States
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GoRight wrote:
No of course I'm not involved in this new Con. Just a person who was disappointed by WBC back when it was at that cramped dump in Lancaster. Glad they were able to ease Don off into the sunset, and hopefully that place out in the countryside an hour and a half from Pittsburgh will work out for those who like it.

Yes; I have to agree that WBC is for those of us dinosaurs who like to play games at a convention.
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin C.
United States
Bethlehem
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Just a person who was disappointed by WBC back when it was at that cramped dump in Lancaster.


What disappointed you specifically? I'll agree if you say the Host, but to my mind, the gaming more than made up for that.

I went for the last 10 years or so and saw my share of nonsensical shit in terms of the venue (dripping water, smoke, etc.), but on the car-ride home, all I could think of was the awesome gaming and how I couldn't wait to get back next year.

I went to Seven Springs last year and, while the venue was much nicer, the story was the gaming, not the venue.

I guess my question to you is when you say "disappointed by the WBC," what exactly was the WBC supposed to be for you?

To me it is the gaming. I fully understand being disappointed by the Host, but if you are looking to play games non-stop with people that know their shit and share your passion, there is no better place to do that than the WBC, to my mind.

I plan to go to PAX Unplugged (already have the hotel booked), but I am expecting spectacle and gaming hype more than actual gaming to be going on.

I see no reason why the WBC "should" try to be more like PAX. I think it is great for us that conventions offer different experiences.

This apparently really grinds your gears for some reason.

Kevin
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gordon Wright
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
natsean wrote:
What disappointed you specifically? I'll agree if you say the Host, but to my mind, the gaming more than made up for that.


Well, one of the earlier flair-heavy users has knowingly pronounced that my posts "won't be here long", so not sure if there's much point in replying further, but here goes anyway, just in case they don't get nuked.

The quality of the Lancaster Host venue overall was poor, as you know. The food was mediocre and outside food was forbidden. The open gaming room was nearly always at 100% capacity, with no available tables. I stayed offsite but I heard some horror stories about the rooms from friends staying onsite. Beyond the Host, I didn't like the extremely slow-to-arrive and overly-wordy emails from Don. And I already shared my opinion of the website and marketing. Overall I'd prefer a con in a more accessible urban location, skewing younger and more exciting, even if they don't have tournaments as large or as many of them.

I saw enough tense finals at WBC, complete with players storming off and accusations of cheating, that yeah, maybe we just want different things from our gaming at this point. And yes perhaps in the 7 springs era, all those problems are gone and a rising tide can lift all boats. We'll see.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wray Ferrell
United States
Cary
North Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
GoRight wrote:
The quality of the Lancaster Host venue overall was poor, as you know. The food was mediocre and outside food was forbidden.


Yes the Host was a dump which is why I am delighted the con moved. Seven Springs was very nice and the ability to do non-gaming stuff (heretic!) is appreciated.

Quote:
The open gaming room was nearly always at 100% capacity, with no available tables.


Fixed at Seven Springs. Very well lit and probably three times the size. Even at peak attendance it was no problem to find a table.


Quote:
Overall I'd prefer a con in a more accessible urban location, skewing younger and more exciting, even if they don't have tournaments as large or as many of them.


Gotta ask, what makes a game convention more exciting?


Quote:
I saw enough tense finals at WBC, complete with players storming off and accusations of cheating, that yeah, maybe we just want different things from our gaming at this point.


I have been to BBG.con, Origins, GenCon, WBC, GMT East, and Consimworld Expo. There are jerks are every single con, but in all cases, WBC included they are a tiny fraction of the attendees.

Wray
11 
 Thumb up
0.30
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin C.
United States
Bethlehem
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Overall I'd prefer a con in a more accessible urban location, skewing younger and more exciting, even if they don't have tournaments as large or as many of them.


Yea...I think we just want different things. Or maybe I just want different things at different times.

The last thing I want from a "gaming" convention is "exciting" or "hip" distractions. I want cool people that know the rules to the game and can give me a challenge. What I want from the organizers is a set schedule that is adhered to and standards for GM's. The WBC gave me that in spades.

That isn't to say that I'm not into exciting hype-type industry stuff once and awhile, but I am thankful for a pure gaming con like the WBC so I can just play the games I want to play with other people.

Quote:
I saw enough tense finals at WBC, complete with players storming off and accusations of cheating, that yeah, maybe we just want different things from our gaming at this point.


In terms of cheating and storming off-type stuff, you get a small amount of assholes everywhere in everything. I've heard about some pretty sick sexual harasment stuff at cons like Gen-Con and game demo people not knowing the actual rules to the game they were "teaching."

So, I don't think it is fair to lay something like, "There are a few douchebags" on the WBC. It's impossible to avoid all of them and I would wager there will be a larger number of them doing a larger variety of douchebag things in Philly this November. (The sheer number of attendees make this probable.)

Mind, I said I am going and I am really looking forward to it, but I know I'll run into a few people I'd rather not.

I really am sorry you had such a poor time. As was said above, the WBC to me is the best week of the year. The membership makes it so for me, so the venue really doesn't make that much a difference.

(But, I totally understand how if you aren't into tournaments or you can't get into a open game, it could be a letdown.)

Kevin
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marty Sample
United States
MILFORD
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
GoRight wrote:
[q="natsean"]Overall I'd prefer a con in a more accessible urban location, skewing younger and more exciting,


Such a con would be vastly more expensive. Several years ago, when the Board was about to start the search for a new venue, they sent out an extensive survey and were able to get an idea of what the average attendee would be willing to spend. The room rates on the PAX Unplugged website are an indication of what you'd be looking at in an "urban location" - and that's in November, which is typically cheaper than mid summer.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Stein
United States
Westerville
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GoRight wrote:
natsean wrote:
What disappointed you specifically? I'll agree if you say the Host, but to my mind, the gaming more than made up for that.


Well, one of the earlier flair-heavy users has knowingly pronounced that my posts "won't be here long", so not sure if there's much point in replying further, but here goes anyway, just in case they don't get nuked.

The quality of the Lancaster Host venue overall was poor, as you know. The food was mediocre and outside food was forbidden. The open gaming room was nearly always at 100% capacity, with no available tables. I stayed offsite but I heard some horror stories about the rooms from friends staying onsite. Beyond the Host, I didn't like the extremely slow-to-arrive and overly-wordy emails from Don. And I already shared my opinion of the website and marketing. Overall I'd prefer a con in a more accessible urban location, skewing younger and more exciting, even if they don't have tournaments as large or as many of them.

I saw enough tense finals at WBC, complete with players storming off and accusations of cheating, that yeah, maybe we just want different things from our gaming at this point. And yes perhaps in the 7 springs era, all those problems are gone and a rising tide can lift all boats. We'll see.


No record of a Gordon Wright getting any laurels at WBC.

Of course it's entirely possible you spent most of your time in the "overcrowded" opening gaming. But then I don't how you "saw enough tense finals' from that view point.

The sock puppet detector gets louder and louder.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin C.
United States
Bethlehem
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
The room rates on the PAX Unplugged website are an indication of what you'd be looking at in an "urban location" - and that's in November, which is typically cheaper than mid summer.


I remember how debated this issue was both when the move was proposed and after Seven Springs was announced. Don and the board shouted from the rooftops how expensive a metropolitan East Coast convention would be and now we see that.

I'm paying over $500 for two nights for PAX. I got a cabin for the WBC and the whole convention is about $750. This is with the book 7-pay 5 thing, but even if the week was $1000, it is still much better than what an "accessible urban" location would look like.

For a short-go like PAX, it is doable. But if you are looking for a 7-9 day convention like the WBC, I don't think there is anyway that could have been done in anything resembling an urban location without many of us taking out a second mortgage.

Kevin

6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Yaure
United States
Plymouth Meeting
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Gordon, thanks for responding.

Summarizing, you provided 8 sentences after your intro paragraph and before your 2 concluding sentences.

The first 4 addressed conditions at the previous location, all of which are improved at Seven Springs - improvement shown.
The next two address communications - the interesting thing here is you seem to be more concerned about format than substance. The WBC provides a remarkable amount of information about the games that are played, from pre-event descriptions, to lists of winners, laurels, and other achievements, to the after action reports that are a wonderful opportunity to revisit the events. I would put this in the different strokes category.
The next sentence raises three serious, substantive issues: accessible, urban location, younger and more exciting, but possibly fewer and/or smaller tournaments. The more accessible is an important issue, although part of that is simply a factor of where one lives, and it is also more relevant the shorter your stay. It should include cost, a category where WBC excels. Most of the rest of this seems to be about the glitz, the videos and new games and hottest of the hot part of the experience. That is why some go to cons. Again, this seems to be different strokes - seeing vs. playing.
The next issue is tense finals, with some bad behavior. My personal view is that tense finals are a plus, not a minus, that someone storming off is pretty much a neutral, and accusations (or acts) of cheating are rare. Personally, that is one of the reasons I am thrilled that most tournaments at WBC have no prize more significant than a plaque - and I've offered to buy a plaque for anyone for whom it matters enough that they would cheat. This is more than different stokes, and if I experienced multiple examples of poor sportsmanship at my first visit to a con I probably would not return. Fortunately, that was not the case for me.

I see why WBC might not be as appealing to some as another, glitzier con focused on new games and demos and the future of the hobby. I work in Center City Philly and will try to stop by Unplugged in November.

But for those of us who find our greatest enjoyment in the hobby is simply playing the games, the WBC cannot be beat.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grant LaDue
United States
Tonawanda
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I hope all other cons do well out on their own. I am also happy that I get so much enjoyment out of WBC, and I'm confident that that will continue well into the future. Fortunately, the success of one does not in any way prevent the success of others.
10 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Max Jamelli
United States
Chambersburg
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I missed the old WBC vs. GenCon troll wars here. This feels nostalgic.

6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Saccenti
United States
Colora
Maryland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am hopeful that PAX does well, and that the people who like that kind of thing (vendor-based cons, convention experiences centered around Trying and Buying games--nothing wrong with that!) gravitate to it.

I have zero interest in that kind of con myself, and hope and trust that WBC won't evolve in that direction.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Engelmann
United States
Rockville
Maryland
flag msg tools
Congress of Gamers conventions
badge
Eric's actual photo!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
actuaryesquire wrote:
A lot of interesting comments and insights from Don. One point he makes I believe needs to be empasized repeatedly, both in its own right and for its impact on many issues: the WBC needs more GMs and needs those GMs to sign up sooner. Whether it is to make possible more events, to avoid burning out GMs who handle multiple events, to make it more feasible for the CD to avoid problem GMs, or to allow more efficient assignment of space and time, the WBC needs members to step up and volunteer to be GMs, and do so timely.

I am confident this year's WBC will be even better than 2016. Next Winter, when we are preparing for 2018, I will help beat the drum to seek GMs early and often.


Having been a GM twice for a large event, I've seen first-hand just how much work it is. An effort to reduce the time required, perhaps through registration standardization, a roster of willing assistants, etc. might help keep some GM's and inspire tentative gamers to step up.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Engelmann
United States
Rockville
Maryland
flag msg tools
Congress of Gamers conventions
badge
Eric's actual photo!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
saccenti wrote:
I am hopeful that PAX does well, and that the people who like that kind of thing (vendor-based cons, convention experiences centered around Trying and Buying games--nothing wrong with that!) gravitate to it.

I have zero interest in that kind of con myself, and hope and trust that WBC won't evolve in that direction.


I think a vendor con would be interesting (I haven't been to one), but I love WBC just the way it is.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Curt Collins
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just spitballing here...

I know this would be some up front work, and some cost, but... Would some sort of RIFD system, or barcode system be a feasible solution to event signups? If it were implemented just so, you could even use the generated list of players to automatically assign seats too.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Tamburo
United States
Justice
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Spleen wrote:
Just spitballing here...

I know this would be some up front work, and some cost, but... Would some sort of RIFD system, or barcode system be a feasible solution to event signups? If it were implemented just so, you could even use the generated list of players to automatically assign seats too.



Theoretically it could work. but you would need to have bar codes on all the badges and all GMs would have to have the hardware and software. I suspect the cost would be pretty major.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Tamburo
United States
Justice
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sigtaulefty wrote:
I missed the old WBC vs. GenCon troll wars here. This feels nostalgic.



Kind of. But at least those had a bit more factual content. This comes across like a "drive by Trolling".
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marty Sample
United States
MILFORD
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Joelist wrote:
Spleen wrote:
Just spitballing here...

I know this would be some up front work, and some cost, but... Would some sort of RIFD system, or barcode system be a feasible solution to event signups? If it were implemented just so, you could even use the generated list of players to automatically assign seats too.



Theoretically it could work. but you would need to have bar codes on all the badges and all GMs would have to have the hardware and software. I suspect the cost would be pretty major.


BGG uses some sort of bar code system I think, but just for registration. There are bar code reader apps for smartphones, that may be a way to cut the cost down. But the ones I've seen are merely for looking up a bar code like say for a price , not automatically importing the info into a spreadsheet.

I think others have suggested using a VLOOKUP in Excel using badge #s, that would certainly cut down on some sign in work; with the caveat that each night you'd want to refresh the data to account for people who register upon arrival at the con.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joel Tamburo
United States
Justice
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Marty S wrote:
Joelist wrote:
Spleen wrote:
Just spitballing here...

I know this would be some up front work, and some cost, but... Would some sort of RIFD system, or barcode system be a feasible solution to event signups? If it were implemented just so, you could even use the generated list of players to automatically assign seats too.



Theoretically it could work. but you would need to have bar codes on all the badges and all GMs would have to have the hardware and software. I suspect the cost would be pretty major.


BGG uses some sort of bar code system I think, but just for registration. There are bar code reader apps for smartphones, that may be a way to cut the cost down. But the ones I've seen are merely for looking up a bar code like say for a price , not automatically importing the info into a spreadsheet.

I think others have suggested using a VLOOKUP in Excel using badge #s, that would certainly cut down on some sign in work; with the caveat that each night you'd want to refresh the data to account for people who register upon arrival at the con.


That has potential Marty. If we as GMs could choose to use an Excel e-form in lieu of the paper it could both save us time and save the BPA time after the conference.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Max Jamelli
United States
Chambersburg
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Joelist wrote:
sigtaulefty wrote:
I missed the old WBC vs. GenCon troll wars here. This feels nostalgic.



Kind of. But at least those had a bit more factual content. This comes across like a "drive by Trolling".


I'm semi-joking here - honestly those were just as bad.

If you like WBC, go. Enjoy it. Live it up. Crank it to 11.

If you don't like it, don't go - but don't be that guy and explain to everyone why they're not having fun the right way.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Max Jamelli
United States
Chambersburg
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Joelist wrote:
Marty S wrote:
Joelist wrote:
Spleen wrote:
Just spitballing here...

I know this would be some up front work, and some cost, but... Would some sort of RIFD system, or barcode system be a feasible solution to event signups? If it were implemented just so, you could even use the generated list of players to automatically assign seats too.



Theoretically it could work. but you would need to have bar codes on all the badges and all GMs would have to have the hardware and software. I suspect the cost would be pretty major.


BGG uses some sort of bar code system I think, but just for registration. There are bar code reader apps for smartphones, that may be a way to cut the cost down. But the ones I've seen are merely for looking up a bar code like say for a price , not automatically importing the info into a spreadsheet.

I think others have suggested using a VLOOKUP in Excel using badge #s, that would certainly cut down on some sign in work; with the caveat that each night you'd want to refresh the data to account for people who register upon arrival at the con.


That has potential Marty. If we as GMs could choose to use an Excel e-form in lieu of the paper it could both save us time and save the BPA time after the conference.


Andy Latto is generous enough to share his GM spreadsheet every year. click here to check out the thread for last years excel chart ... I'm not sure if the file is still active though

I've used it the last 3 years. I never have major issues with sign ins. It's accurate with pre-regs and if a player comes in as "not listed" you can create a listing for them after checking their badge. I've never really struggled getting people signed in (granted my event doesn't pull in 100 people in a heat)

The caveat is ... do the GM's all have laptops that they are willing to tote around?

2 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rich Shipley
United States
Baltimore
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
the liberal unsavory type
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Marty S wrote:
I think others have suggested using a VLOOKUP in Excel using badge #s, that would certainly cut down on some sign in work; with the caveat that each night you'd want to refresh the data to account for people who register upon arrival at the con.


I use a vlookup list of badges and names for entering game results and have a pretty good list after three years, but I don't use it for sign-in as I think it would create a bottleneck. It would be nice to be able to download all attendees before the con. It would cut down on how many I have to enter later.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Yaure
United States
Plymouth Meeting
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
rshipley wrote:


I use a vlookup list of badges and names for entering game results and have a pretty good list after three years, but I don't use it for sign-in as I think it would create a bottleneck. It would be nice to be able to download all attendees before the con. It would cut down on how many I have to enter later.


Andy's spreadsheet has the pre-reg attendees downloaded in advance, so I know it is possible.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marty Sample
United States
MILFORD
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
sigtaulefty wrote:


The caveat is ... do the GM's all have laptops that they are willing to tote around?



All GMs ? I doubt it. Some GMs do already use them though. Especially if you have a laptop with a numeric keypad, I'd think entering badge #s would be pretty fast, moreso than writing it down manually. I am an asst GM, I may ask the GM if he wants to try Andy's sheet this year.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Prev «  1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.