GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters at year's end: 1000!

9,491 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
17 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
13 
 Thumb up
 Hide
53 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

Mottainai: Wutai Mountain» Forums » News

Subject: Open Beta Testing begins! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Chris Cieslik
United States
Arlington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Banana!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mottainai: Wutai Mountain is now ready for beta testing!

The PDF Print and Play file is available at http://asmadigames.com/beta
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Glesser

Fullerton
California
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
What happens to OM-cards when the work to which they are attached is stolen using the Shuriken or Flute?

Are cards drawn using, for example, the Wick or Incense Case placed into your Waiting Area?

On Tassle, is OM-action-type meant to be OM-helper-type, or does OM-action-type have a separate meaning?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jared Wilbur
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just on a quick read through of the rules, there is a typo in the first instance of 'moutnain'.

Also, just to be clear. If a player draws cards in any other way excepting prayer, they do not draw an Om card. If they pray, they have to draw an Om card the first time, and can draw no more Om cards on additional prayer actions that turn (via helpers or abilities)?

Edit: After a few plays tonight with my wife here are a few more questions.

Does Seal assume to a minimum of 1 or a minimum of 0?
Can you return Om cards?
Gift Card has a typo on it "or" instead of "on".
Just to clarify, completed Om works can cover sales and helpers on the workbench?
When using a clerk action, can you sell Om materials to the workbench and/or to another Om work's sales area?
Note - Does the return have to be from the Note work, or can it be from any Om work in either of your wings?
Shrine - Reveal the top card from either deck? Or just the main one?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Glesser

Fullerton
California
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
joplick wrote:

Note - Does the return have to be from the Note work, or can it be from any Om work in either of your wings?


Looks like it must come from Note itself.

rules wrote:

Om Helpers / Materials / Sales: Each Om work will refer to Om helpers, Om materials, or Om sales. An
Om work’s effect is enhanced by the presence of these cards, but it only refers to cards tucked under itself.
Cards tucked under other Om works do not count.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad
United States
Kearney
Nebraska
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
This is excellent news! I'll be printing these up this afternoon.

My team here at work has recent become obsessed with this game and we are playing 3-4 games a day, sooo... anything you need us to test in particular?

My quick thoughts from an initial pass of just reading the file:
1: For now the absence of any art is a great signal "this is an OM" but there really needs to be a quick way to identify the Wutai cards from across the table on the face of the card - inverse colors, flashy border around the art, something.
2: The words Helpers, Materials, and Sales should be capitalized and color coded the same way Monk, Potter, and Clerk are respectively. And maybe the entire "OM-Helper-Type" phrase could be colored?
3: Maybe I just need to work with them a while but just having the cards say "here" to make them self referential might help with clarity.

Bonus thought: This has to be sold in a box that can hold 3 *sleeved* decks comfortably! The original KS box just needs to be 2-3 mm in all three dimensions with a 3 channel and it would be perfect but its just a little short.

Thank you for this - looking great so far!
Mynd
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Cieslik
United States
Arlington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Banana!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
repnA wrote:
What happens to OM-cards when the work to which they are attached is stolen using the Shuriken or Flute?

Are cards drawn using, for example, the Wick or Incense Case placed into your Waiting Area?

On Tassle, is OM-action-type meant to be OM-helper-type, or does OM-action-type have a separate meaning?


Should be om-helper-type.

All draws should be to waiting area -- looks like I missed a few wording fixes!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Cieslik
United States
Arlington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Banana!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
joplick wrote:
Just on a quick read through of the rules, there is a typo in the first instance of 'moutnain'.

Also, just to be clear. If a player draws cards in any other way excepting prayer, they do not draw an Om card. If they pray, they have to draw an Om card the first time, and can draw no more Om cards on additional prayer actions that turn (via helpers or abilities)?

Edit: After a few plays tonight with my wife here are a few more questions.

Does Seal assume to a minimum of 1 or a minimum of 0?
Can you return Om cards?
Gift Card has a typo on it "or" instead of "on".
Just to clarify, completed Om works can cover sales and helpers on the workbench?
When using a clerk action, can you sell Om materials to the workbench and/or to another Om work's sales area?
Note - Does the return have to be from the Note work, or can it be from any Om work in either of your wings?
Shrine - Reveal the top card from either deck? Or just the main one?


Yes, that's how drawing works.

Seal can reduce to 0 actions.

A returned Om card goes to the bottom of the Wutai deck.

Yes, completed Om works provide cover.

I don't think you can sell from Om materials to normal sales without an effect specifically allowing it. Will clarify with Carl.

Yes, it needs to be under Note.

All cards interacting with the "deck" interact with the normal one.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Cieslik
United States
Arlington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Banana!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Myndskrew wrote:
This is excellent news! I'll be printing these up this afternoon.

My team here at work has recent become obsessed with this game and we are playing 3-4 games a day, sooo... anything you need us to test in particular?

My quick thoughts from an initial pass of just reading the file:
1: For now the absence of any art is a great signal "this is an OM" but there really needs to be a quick way to identify the Wutai cards from across the table on the face of the card - inverse colors, flashy border around the art, something.
2: The words Helpers, Materials, and Sales should be capitalized and color coded the same way Monk, Potter, and Clerk are respectively. And maybe the entire "OM-Helper-Type" phrase could be colored?
3: Maybe I just need to work with them a while but just having the cards say "here" to make them self referential might help with clarity.

Bonus thought: This has to be sold in a box that can hold 3 *sleeved* decks comfortably! The original KS box just needs to be 2-3 mm in all three dimensions with a 3 channel and it would be perfect but its just a little short.

Thank you for this - looking great so far!
Mynd


Yeah -- we'll definitely be doing graphic design things to make them more clear. This was just to make them testable now!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christian K
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Any asmadi pres conference these days? Usually it is during Gama
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Cieslik
United States
Arlington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Banana!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Little late this year, we'll be doing something next week!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Glesser

Fullerton
California
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
angelkurisu wrote:
repnA wrote:
What happens to OM-cards when the work to which they are attached is stolen using the Shuriken or Flute?

Are cards drawn using, for example, the Wick or Incense Case placed into your Waiting Area?

On Tassle, is OM-action-type meant to be OM-helper-type, or does OM-action-type have a separate meaning?


Should be om-helper-type.

All draws should be to waiting area -- looks like I missed a few wording fixes!


Thanks, Chris. How about the stolen work question?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Cieslik
United States
Arlington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Banana!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Oh I missed that. I believe they'd come along with the work.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Glesser

Fullerton
California
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
angelkurisu wrote:
Oh I missed that. I believe they'd come along with the work.


That definitely makes sense with the Shuriken (although that makes a situationally very powerful card downright filthy). With the Flute, since you are moving the (Paper) work either to your bench or your helpers, the only place for the OM-cards to go (assuming they stay with the work) is also onto the bench or with the helpers as appropriate. Again, that could be monstrous!

Playing around with the set tonight, Buddha seems awfully easy to trigger (compared to Turtle). Is this intentional?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Cieslik
United States
Arlington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Banana!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Its certainly easier -- but hopefully not *too* easy!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Glesser

Fullerton
California
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
angelkurisu wrote:
Its certainly easier -- but hopefully not *too* easy!


Tried it again this morning, stacking the OM deck so that Buddha would be in the top 15 cards of the deck. It came up 9th and my playing partner had Cloak out. He used my task to craft a Paper work, returned it, and built Buddha from his hand, immediately dumping the other three cards (Paper, Cloth, Metal) as OM-helpers. It took him a few turns to put his hand back together, but he played a Monk mostly so that he could move it to the floor the next turn and pick it up with another Monk (to be placed under Buddha) and then he did it again with a Potter followed by a Monk.

He could have had worse draws, and it was nice for him to have Cloak, but (unlike with Turtle where you may not have any hope of using), once he got Buddha out, it was just a matter of time before he WOULD be able to win the game. This feels decidedly different to the tension of Turtle and Cup. I'd like to try it again with the "Or" on the card replaced by "And".

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Cieslik
United States
Arlington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Banana!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Good to know, thanks for testing!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phillip Garrott
United States
Fort Worth
Texas
flag msg tools
Stop touching my head.
badge
Thanks for scratching that itch.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Chris,

Only one clarification needed so far:

When taking the Tailor action, if you return Wutai cards, do you draw an equivalent number of Wutai cards, or only cards from the main deck?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Cieslik
United States
Arlington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Banana!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
From the main deck. The only time you draw Wutai cards to your waiting area is by prayer actions.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad
United States
Kearney
Nebraska
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Got to our first games today - very interesting to try and wrap our heads around the new movements.

Questions that came up:

Napkin: What is the intended usage? When you initially place it down you could seed it with cards from your hand giving you your base OM-Sales-type cards. Then in the next morning your could transfer a matching OM-sale-type to Napkin but there would be no benefit as only the first of each type provides points? Is the intent that you could get 1 of each color on Napkin for 11 points? If that is the case should the first sentence not have the keyword intending a match and just say "you may place a sale here from your hand"?

Comb, Stick, and other conditional phrases: The card Comb says "Before your turn, you may sell a material, then sell all OM-sale-type materials from the floor."
One reading of the card is that it is an If:Then statement, if you sell a material from your bench:then you may sell all the OM-sale matching material from the floor.
The second reading of it treats it as two separate statements and the "Before your turn you may" condition should apply to both parts independently.
The situation in question was that my bench was empty so I couldnt move a sale - therefore I could?/couldn't? move the matching materials from the floor to Comb. Which is correct?

Bonus question: is "before your turn" supposed to be a new and distinct thing from "in the morning" or just a beta thing that should be changed?

Thanks ahead of time,
Mynd
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad
United States
Kearney
Nebraska
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Third game - new question.

Are references to OM-<help/mat/sale>-type a singular check such that putting two of the same type under that OM work doesn't increase power or cause a additional activations?

Example: Doorstop reads "+2 points for each OM-material-type work" - if I have Doorstop with a cloth card under it and 3 completed cloth works works I would receive +2 for each cloth for a total of +6. If I tuck a second cloth card under Doorstop do I get no additional benifits because the type "cloth" is already represented? Or does it trigger off of each instance and I would get +4 per cloth work for a total of +12?

We believe the first example is correct but wanted to fully confirm.

Thanks again,
Mynd
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Chudyk
msg tools
designer
The effect of Napkin can give a player at most 11 extra points.

Stick, Comb, Hand, and Dress all allow a player do either effect, or both. Not being able to do one does not prevent the player from doing the other.

Concerning Doorstop, a work is of OM-material-type if it matches a material collected under the OM-work. Having additional materials of the same type collected under the OM-work does not further alter the Boolean.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad
United States
Kearney
Nebraska
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks so much for the responses, and for this great game

Should I continue to post questions about play testing here, or is there a better forum to continue these discussions?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad
United States
Kearney
Nebraska
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Additional questions that have come up have caused a great debate over here. Going to need some very fine wording to work out the difference now.

What is the definition of "a work"? Does "a work" include the OM-helper/mat/sale in itself? Or is "attachment" a property of the cards under an OM-work and every card is still independent?

When you Shuriken an OM-work from somebody do the tucked cards come with it (if this is the right ruling) because "they are part of the work" or because "they are attached" to the work? Or get returned? (Change from previous guess on the ruling)

If you Kite an OM-work do you get the benefit of the tucked cards under the original? Yes because they are "part" of the work? Yes because Kite should copy the work *and attachments* (errata)? No because Kite will copy exactly the work card only and it will be self referencing the 0 cards under Kite?

If Kite becomes an OM-work and then a card gets tucked under Kite does the tucked card get to stay after the end of turn? Or get returned?

If a card is taken and changes state from OM-Work to Helper/Material/Sale on the Temple do OM-cards under the work also get tucked under the Temple? Could you opt to divert some/all of these cards to your other OM-works? Or get returned?

If a card is taken and changes state from OM-Work to OM-Helper/Material/Sale on a new OM-work do OM-cards under the taken work also get tucked under the new OM-work? Do the previously tucked cards change to the OM-type that the converted work has become? (ex. OM-work with tucked OM-sales is taken to become and OM-material, do the OM-sales convert to become OM-materials or stay as OM-sales) Or get returned?

Apologies for the painfully fine toothed questions but several of these have broken down into "in basic english it obviously means..." vs "but in strict code logic it would mean...", and we're nerds, and we're passionate about arguments! angry

Hopefully this is useful feedback and not "oh no, what have I done...?" fuel.

Thank you so much for your time,
Mynd
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ben Wickens
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have printed out the cards and will hopefully get a few plays over the next couple of weeks. Already done a solo 2 player runthroUgh to get the feel and I am very impressed. Adds so much to the game without much increase in rules complexity. Such a interesting left field way of extending and expanding a game. Unless certain combos kick in I can see the 5 works end condition being much more common than either deck running out but that just gives slightly more time for engines to build up.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Chudyk
msg tools
designer
Myndskrew wrote:

What is the definition of "a work"? Does "a work" include the OM-helper/mat/sale in itself? Or is "attachment" a property of the cards under an OM-work and every card is still independent?

Attachment is a property and every card is still independent.

Quote:
When you Shuriken an OM-work from somebody do the tucked cards come with it (if this is the right ruling) because "they are part of the work" or because "they are attached" to the work? Or get returned? (Change from previous guess on the ruling)

The tucked cards come with it because they are attached.

Quote:
If you Kite an OM-work do you get the benefit of the tucked cards under the original? Yes because they are "part" of the work? Yes because Kite should copy the work *and attachments* (errata)? No because Kite will copy exactly the work card only and it will be self referencing the 0 cards under Kite?

A Kite does not get the benefit of any cards attached under the original.

Quote:
If Kite becomes an OM-work and then a card gets tucked under Kite does the tucked card get to stay after the end of turn? Or get returned?

A tucked card remains after the Kite reverts to a regular work. It provides no benefit as long as the current effect of Kite does not mention its particular OM-type.

Quote:
If a card is taken and changes state from OM-Work to Helper/Material/Sale on the Temple do OM-cards under the work also get tucked under the Temple? Could you opt to divert some/all of these cards to your other OM-works? Or get returned?

If a card is taken and changes state from OM-Work to OM-Helper/Material/Sale on a new OM-work do OM-cards under the taken work also get tucked under the new OM-work? Do the previously tucked cards change to the OM-type that the converted work has become? (ex. OM-work with tucked OM-sales is taken to become and OM-material, do the OM-sales convert to become OM-materials or stay as OM-sales) Or get returned?

How can a taken OM-work change state in this way?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.