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Subject: Official Second Printing Change Log rss

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Isaac Childres
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So first off, I'd like to talk about the overall nature of these changes. In general, the changes could be sorted into the following categories:

1. Typo fixes
2. Clarifications
3. Physical component changes
4. Balancing (quality of life)

1 & 2. Now, typo fixes and clarifications are confined mainly to the rule book and scenario books. Clarifications include a lot of rewording of the rule book text to give people a quicker understanding of the rules. Typos include the addition and changing of some of the achievements in the scenario book to cover up some loopholes that left people in weird, unintended situations.

I won't cover all the small typo fixes in the books or event cards, or any of the many changes in the rule book. This thread has the rule book pretty well covered, and you can always get a PDF of the new versions of the rules and scenario book here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B8ppELln5Z0rdEFIWl9a...

I will, however, try to cover all the achievement changes in the scenario book. I also will cover the major typo changes on ability cards. And I will cover clarifications made to item and ability cards.

3. Physical component changes are pretty simple to explain, and I will do so here. The major one is the HP/EXP dials and subsequent redesign on the character mats. If you want the dials, you can get them from the Kickstarter, but there will be no way to get the new mats, as I don't feel the change is significant enough to warrant charging people to replace them. Here is a side-by-side comparison of the two versions of the Brute's mats (ignore the difference in lighting effects).


We are also reinforcing the box to make it less prone to splitting in the seams. As a physical component upgrade, printing off empty boxes to send to people would end up costing you heavily because of the size, so I decided against making this available for the Kickstarter as well.

Finally, we are changing the plastic stands, as there have been complaints about the old ones. I initially chose the triangle stands from the first printing because they are the best for reducing wear on the stands themselves because they clip on. They are very large, though, covering up a significant portion of the standees, and aren't quite calibrated to the thickness of the stands, and if you don't know how to use them properly or get a bad batch, they can break easily. I decided it was worth it to switch to something smaller, more durable, and better fitting. Here is a picture of what they look like:


These are not available separately as part of the Kickstarter campaign, but you can find equivalent quality stands here: https://www.spielematerial.de/en/standfuesse-variabel-farbig... and here: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/fantasy-fligh... (though you'll have to paint these). I have heard they both work great. They are not exact replicas, though. If someone can find a website selling exact replicas, let me know (dimensions are 19mm x 19mm x 11mm).

4. And then we get to balancing stuff. I really even hate to use the word "balance," as it implies a level of imbalance to start. I think "quality of life" is a better term. For instance, there is nothing imbalanced about the original prosperity track, but I decided that more people would just be happier if it went a little faster, so I decreased the number of boxes. Or it was just sort of annoying how the Cragheart's Unstable Upheaval went from being a melee attack to a ranged attack when you consumed earth, so I changed it to be less annoying.

Yes, there are some strict balancing changes to make the characters a little more equal, but I wouldn't consider the changes to be monumental or game breaking. Just some small tweaks here and there.

The main thing I want to stress here, and I really can't stress it strongly enough, is that the game you have in front of you right now is in no way made invalid by these types of changes. I think there are thousands of people who would agree that the game is pretty fantastic. At least that's what I can gather from all the high ratings.

Does knowledge of these small balancing tweaks really suddenly make the game less fun for you than it was a week ago? Please just seriously think about the question.

Moreover, keep in mind that these are not the correct versions of the cards for the first printing. I am not suggesting that you implement any of these changes. I was asked what the changes were, and I am simply obliging that request.

With all of that said, I guess it is time to document them all.

Main board:
The prosperity level track was reduced by one box for each level. So instead of 5, 6, 7, etc., it is now 4, 5, 6, etc.

Punchboards:
The curse and bless square tokens were replaced by extra poison, wound, and muddle tokens. (The original curse and bless tokens had no function.)
The 10 exp tokens were replaced by "scenario aid" tokens which look similar to the red circle numbered and lettered icons in the rule book. These can be used to help track various effects and triggers in a scenario but are not at all necessary for play.

Scenario book: (these can all be seen in the link above)
p2: Cragheart suggested items changed
p6: Slight tweak to the setup of archers and shaman for lower player counts to make sure an elite always starts on the board.
p7: Reduction of difficulty in two rooms, so there is a more natural progression of difficulty from the starting scenarios to this one.
p8: Changed Living Corpses to Living Bones to reduce the overall tracking required by the scenario.
p13: Added more Vermlings to the map and increased the boss's Special 1 to increase the difficulty of the scenario.
p14: Fixed the numbering on the treasure tile (11 instead of 55).
p14: Changed the name of achievement requirement to close an achievement loophole.
p16: Fixed both boss special mistakes.
p16&17 Added item 113 design to the rewards.
p24: Reduced the number of Vermlings in the last room to slightly reduce the difficulty.
p26: Fixed boss special omission.
p28: Changed the name of achievement requirement to close an achievement loophole.
p29: Changed the name of global achievement to close an achievement loophole.
p34: Defined escaping.
p35: Changed mechanics of how to cleanse water pumps to reduce difficulty.
p37: Changed the name of global achievement to close an achievement loophole. Also added a prosperity reward.
p44: Defined escaping.
p45: Specified that the boss is immune to forced movement. Also added a lost achievement to close an achievement loophole.
p46&47: Changed the name of achievement requirement to close an achievement loophole.
p47: Removed superfluous boss special.
p48: Changed the name of global achievement to close an achievement loophole.
p49: Defined escape.
p56: Added missing global achievement.
p60: Added achievement requirement to close an achievement loophole.
p62: Specified that the boss is immune to forced movement.
p69: Made it easier to the loot the treasure tiles.
p77: Reduced number of drakes to reduce difficulty.
p78: Made treasure tiles easier to loot to reduce difficulty. Also defined escaping.
p88: Reworded special rules for clarity.
p90: Made it easier to wake up the sleeping drakes. Also defined escaping.
p92: Slightly reduced enemy counts to reduce difficulty.
p101: Clarified boss specials.
p115: Changed Icestorm to Lavaflow, just because that enemy type wasn't represented enough.
p119-121: Added "gain" to treasure tile reward descriptions in all cases where the looter immediately gains something.

Sticker sheets:
Global achievements: Combined "The Demon Dethroned" and "The Rift Closed" into a single achievement "The Rift Neutralized," as it was causing many problems that they were separate. To fix this problem in the first printing, just use either one (whichever you gain first) as a representation of both for scenario requirements. It is still possible to gain this achievement twice, but if you have it once, you can't earn it again.

Battle goals:
Just typo fixes.

Personal quests:
513: Reduced the number of kills needed to 8.
514: Reduced the number of triggers required to 12.
516: Reduced the number of kills needed to 15.
521: Reduced number of scenarios required to 3.
522: Reduced number of scenarios required to 6.
523: Reduced number of kills required (one of each instead of two).
526: Reduced number of scenarios required to 4.
530: Reduced the number of enhancements required to 4.
533: Reduced the number of kills required (three of each instead of four)

City Events:
All of the following events were changed to include requirements for having enough money, using the "Pay X gold:" conditional statement:
02: Otherwise return card to deck
03: Otherwise return card to deck
08: Otherwise return card to deck
11: Otherwise remove card and lose 1 reputation
15: Otherwise remove card and lose 1 check
16: Otherwise remove card
19: If you don't have the money for the top part, read the bottom part
41: Otherwise return card to deck
43: Otherwise read outcome B
48: Otherwise remove card
57: Otherwise remove card
66: Otherwise read outcome B
67: Otherwise read outcome B

Road Events:
28: If you can't pay the potion for outcome A, read outcome B.
35: If you can't pay the gold for outcome B, read outcome A.

Monster stats:
Spitting Drake: Reduced level 0 elites' attack to 4.
Scenario 46 Boss: "Summon P eggs" changed to "Summon C eggs."

Monster ability cards:
648: Added "+"s to the top ability.
679, 591, 590, and 713: Heal abilities all specify "range 3."

Attack mods:
110: Added rolling icon.

Items:
Item 107: Movement requirement for bonus increased to 4.

Character sheets:
Cragheart and Mindthief: Changed "negative dungeon effects" to "negative scenario effects."

Character ability cards:


088: Removed 1st and 3rd exp from the bottom ability charges.
099: Changed move 4 to move 2 on bottom.
106: Removed one exp from the bottom, giving exp on the 2nd, 4th and 6th charges.


151: Fixed typo on top (Changed to "on your melee attacks").
164: Removed hit point limit on the top kill power.


067: Removed the exp on bottom.


118: Clarified placement of obstacles on bottom.
123: Top is no longer a ranged attack when earth is consumed.
134: Clarified damage of top ability.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
476: Specified that the bear's damage should be tracked on this card and that the Beast Tyrant controls the bear for command actions.
487: Changed the bottom to a "Command: Loot 1" action.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
379: On bottom, reduced the heal value to 4.
390: On top, reduced the value of the attack to 2.
403: On top, increased the value of the attack to 6.
404: On bottom, reduced the value of the heal to 4.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
289: On top, reduced range to 2.
299: On top, reduced range to 3.
301: On top, reduced damage suffered to 3.
303: On top, reduced the pierce value to 2.
304: On top, reduced the attack value to 4.
305: On top, kill is restricted to normal enemies.
307: On top, reduced attack value to 4.
313: On top, reduced range to 1.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
225: On bottom, damage reduced to 7.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
408: On top, increased value of attack to 4.
412: On top, increased the value of the heal to 3.
417-427: These can now be used for basic actions, and they are signified by an "M" for the level so they are not confused for "X" cards.
443: On top, increased value of heal to 3.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
325: On top, attack reduced to 1.
333: On top, attack reduced to 2. On bottom, move reduced to 3.
340: On top, attack reduced to 3. On bottom, attack reduced to 4.
342: Top is no longer a ranged attack when fire is consumed.


Edit: Forgot about that last class.
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Matthew Kameron
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Thank you for making and documenting these changes!

As a version 1 owner, I am very happy for the 'quality of life' improvements to the characters, even the characters I have not yet unlocked. I will make these changes to the original cards.

Also appreciate the other changes, and thank you for continually improving and clearly taking into account feedback on this forum.
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Paul Johnson
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On the monster stats section, in the FAQ you had indicated that the Level 3 Elite Ooze shield value was erroneously listed as 2 (seeing how all other levels of elite oozes have only 1 shield).

Also, the Lightning Bolt class has an attack which works just like the Cragheart's card 123. Can't remember which one, don't have my copy on hand, but might as well fix 'em both.
 
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RavenMad
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Thanks Isaac but damn do I want those updated Character boards now!
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Byron Campbell
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Thank you for taking the time to compile and make public these changes.

I noticed that many of the changes will make personal quests and prosperity easier to obtain. I understand the motivation here, but I wanted to chime in and say that I am personally very happy with the pacing of my first edition and will continue playing the game as I received it.

I am surprised the battle goals haven't been tweaked at all, since they seemed less balanced than the personal goals. On a related note, Personal Quest 519 seems like it will take significantly longer than any of the other quests I've encountered, especially with so many of them now being reduced.
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Justin Boehm
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Nice to have this all in one place, thanks Isaac! Still think that 098 reduction is excessive and 3 would have been more viable if needed at all), and I GM'd you on it as well, but regardless it's nice to have all this info right here, compiled for easy reference. Keep up the good work!
 
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Daniel Berg
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Scenario Book (pages 54 to 56):
Spoiler (click to reveal)
It is still possible to complete scenario 42 after having done 41 (not the other way around, though). This would allow you to have both global achievements at the same time (as well as not make any sense).

 
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Martin Wakefield
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Isaac, is there a way you could make the changes to the cards a printable PDF? That way people who own the original could "fix" their set. Thanks.
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Mike Daneman
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Is there any way to make the modified cards an add-on to the Kickstarter? Please?
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Jason Wallace
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Seems like a sticker sheet with all the card changes on it would be a simple way to update the 1st printing, if so desired. This wouldn't be very different than the enhancement upgrades. It could even just be a pdf file for folks to print and play onto sticker paper at home or in the copy shop.

I think it's amazing how few actual errors are in the 1st printing, for such a huge amount of content. I'm really happy with the game both with and without the changes.

Thank you Isaac for the list of changes



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Tobias
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Thanks a lot for this. Just one more wish: could you clarify, which of these are balance changes and which are clarifications / corrections that should be made in any case?
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David Latimore
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Seething Song wrote:
Seems like a sticker sheet with all the card changes on it would be a simple way to update the 1st printing, if so desired. This wouldn't be very different than the enhancement upgrades. It could even just be a pdf file for folks to print and play onto sticker paper at home or in the copy shop.

I think it's amazing how few actual errors are in the 1st printing, for such a huge amount of content. I'm really happy with the game both with and without the changes.

Thank you Isaac for the list of changes




I'm really hoping someone makes a file I can print off on a sticker sheet to stick to my cards.
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John Drama
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Nice!
Would you like to know about errors found in the new books or is it too late to change anyway?

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Scenario book, pg. 8: On the component list the picture shows a Cultist but the text says Living Bones. The Picture of Living Bones has Living Corpse written next to it


edit: probably not the best thread for this, but I happend to find this right now while comparing changes.
 
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Endevor Rovedne
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I will start playing the lightning character really soon and already got nerfed

Interesting changes, the ones for the life goals are the most welcome for me.

Please provide us the PDF of all the updated cards.
 
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Jo Bartok
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Attack mods:
110: Added rolling icon.

Which one is that, anyone knows?
 
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Jo Bartok
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Isaac, can we get a Card Upgrade Addon on Kickstarter for these cards? - I'd love to pay for such an Addon

It seems to be clearly below count of 50:
- Character Ability Cards
- Monster Ability Cards
- Attack Modifier Cards
- Personal Quest Cards
- City Event Cards
- Road Event Cards
- Battle Goal Cards
- Items Cards

It would be so much love for 1st Printing Backers if we could get those upgraded.

Here is an example how it can be done: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2074786394/vast-the-cry...
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toeknee n
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ionas wrote:

Attack mods:
110: Added rolling icon.

Which one is that, anyone knows?

I remember that being a Mindthief Stun attack modifier card from the FAQ.
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Mariano Rico
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Cephalofair wrote:
Does knowledge of these small balancing tweaks really suddenly make the game less fun for you than it was a week ago? Please just seriously think about the question.

Dear Isaac

I know you know this community, and in general the fans of this hobby, probably better than any of us. Even if using logic to answer that question, which you seem to appeal for when talking about these changes (with arguments which I totally understand and agree with, on the other hand) clearly points as the answer as a "no", I am sure that most of us, maybe moved by our irrational love for the hobby, will have to admit that the answer is quite different.

Let me point out that I am a new backer and thus not affected by the changes. But I know my fellow geeks from a long time, and you just have to read most answers to this thread so far. Owners of the first edition are gonna demand to have a way to introduce this small but numerous changes that we all believe have been approved by you because you think make the game better. Not only different. But better. If you, our guru, have gone down that path, we want to follow behind. Specially if we know other people have. We would feel left behind otherwise. That´s the way we are.

I know I would feel weird playing first edition without these changes. Its irrational, its probably illogic, but its the way it is. We both know that, I am sure. So please, seriously consider a way to make them available for them. I am sure they will appreciate you even more than they already do if you make that effort somehow. It doesn´t have to be free, we all understand it can be costly. It just has to be an option.

You showed us, so far, that anything is possible in the Gloomhaven universe. You made us believe in it. Keep the magic flowing, please. I am sure its for the best of this master piece´s future and will put you, once more, one step ahead of the rest of competitors out there.

Yours truly
Mariano
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Justin Boehm
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Acererak wrote:
Cephalofair wrote:
Does knowledge of these small balancing tweaks really suddenly make the game less fun for you than it was a week ago? Please just seriously think about the question.

Dear Isaac

I know you know this community, and in general the fans of this hobby, probably better than any of us. Even if using logic to answer that question, which you seem to appeal for when talking about these changes (with arguments which I totally understand and agree with, on the other hand) clearly points as the answer as a "no", I am sure that most of us, maybe moved by our irrational love for the hobby, will have to admit that the answer is quite different.

Let me point out that I am a new backer and thus not affected by the changes. But I know my fellow geeks from a long time, and you just have to read most answers to this thread so far. Owners of the first edition are gonna demand to have a way to introduce this small but numerous changes that we all believe have been approved by you because you think make the game better. Not only different. But better. If you, our guru, have gone down that path, we want to follow behind. Specially if we know other people have. We would feel left behind otherwise. That´s the way we are.

I know I would feel weird playing first edition without these changes. Its irrational, its probably illogic, but its the way it is. We both know that, I am sure. So please, seriously consider a way to make them available for them. I am sure they will appreciate you even more than they already do if you make that effort somehow. It doesn´t have to be free, we all understand it can be costly. It just has to be an option.

You showed us, so far, that anything is possible in the Gloomhaven universe. You made us believe in it. Keep the magic flowing, please. I am sure its for the best of this master piece´s future and will put you, once more, one step ahead of the rest of competitors out there.

Yours truly
Mariano

It's a great point Mariano makes, and unfortunately my answer to the original question is "Yeah, a little bit, it does." Is it logical? I think it is, because official changes are something that most people have trouble just overlooking, and the vocal minority are the only reason for these changes apparently. "Quality of life" and balancing changes are not the same thing, so all those changes to character abilities should be even to be considered balancing, but only 1 class seems to have an increase in any ability while the rest have been reduced in power, so the balancing changes are inherently "unbalanced" as it were. I love this game, as do many others, so if these changes are to be permanent and official (which some need to be re-evaluated IMO), I agree there should be an official pack to have all updated cards obtained. Mariano is right that we want to follow the official rulings because you are the creator and we follow you as a leader.
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1st edition 4 life. (Until august)
I LOVE GLOOMHAVEN
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Vince R.
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Acererak wrote:
Cephalofair wrote:
Does knowledge of these small balancing tweaks really suddenly make the game less fun for you than it was a week ago? Please just seriously think about the question.

Dear Isaac

I know you know this community, and in general the fans of this hobby, probably better than any of us. Even if using logic to answer that question, which you seem to appeal for when talking about these changes (with arguments which I totally understand and agree with, on the other hand) clearly points as the answer as a "no", I am sure that most of us, maybe moved by our irrational love for the hobby, will have to admit that the answer is quite different.

Let me point out that I am a new backer and thus not affected by the changes. But I know my fellow geeks from a long time, and you just have to read most answers to this thread so far. Owners of the first edition are gonna demand to have a way to introduce this small but numerous changes that we all believe have been approved by you because you think make the game better. Not only different. But better. If you, our guru, have gone down that path, we want to follow behind. Specially if we know other people have. We would feel left behind otherwise. That´s the way we are.

I know I would feel weird playing first edition without these changes. Its irrational, its probably illogic, but its the way it is. We both know that, I am sure. So please, seriously consider a way to make them available for them. I am sure they will appreciate you even more than they already do if you make that effort somehow. It doesn´t have to be free, we all understand it can be costly. It just has to be an option.

You showed us, so far, that anything is possible in the Gloomhaven universe. You made us believe in it. Keep the magic flowing, please. I am sure its for the best of this master piece´s future and will put you, once more, one step ahead of the rest of competitors out there.

Yours truly
Mariano

This seems like a small, vocal minority. Also he stated anything added a physical copy to this kickstarter WILL DELAY IT. So please, for those who are waiting to get the actual game, ask for the possibility in the future to buy these.

Or just ask for a digital version that you can have printed on your own. I am a first edition owner and I'm perfectly happy with playing my game as is. There are 10's of thousands of people who want it and don't have that luxury. Please don't delay them because a few people want the same minor changes that they can easily play themselves right now. Just be patient and ask for the ability to buy them in the future (which may or may not happen, and you should respect that decision because you don't have all the facts on the economics and time that may be involved to do this...facts that you are not entitled to).
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Vince R.
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I like the change on the scoundrel card for the bottom action of Swift Bow. If you want the four movement, you have to have boots that let you take advantage of that and plan it.

Was such a pain to watch someone playing scoundrel constantly just swoop up all the gold in such an easy fashion (usually going 4 spaces out of the way and making the scenario harder or failing it).
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Togashi Mazosha
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Cephalofair wrote:

Does knowledge of these small balancing tweaks really suddenly make the game less fun for you than it was a week ago? Please just seriously think about the question.

I, for one, am delighted to know about these changes! All of these changes are pretty small in scope, and the bigger ones really just serve to accelerate some of the slower progressions in the game. As someone who only gets to play once a week, having some of those slower progressions sped up just a little bit makes me feel like some of those quests are a little less daunting. And I know the guys I play with will appreciate, at least the option, to speed stuff up.

Thank you for the amazing game! I can't wait to start incorporating these changes!
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Greg
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Wow! More than I had expected.

Oh well, thanks for posting these changes so that people who want to adjust their 1st edition version can. Not sure what I'll change yet other than prosperity, but at least I can check this thread out on occasion to see if I want to fix something.
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minigno wrote:
I like the change on the scoundrel card for the bottom action of Swift Bow. If you want the four movement, you have to have boots that let you take advantage of that and plan it.

Was such a pain to watch someone playing scoundrel constantly just swoop up all the gold in such an easy fashion (usually going 4 spaces out of the way and making the scenario harder or failing it).

I think the card would have been better as a LOST card with move 5 (or 4). You can still use it for move 2 but then you can also have ONE use for a great looting ability. It fits the character and isnt OP. I agree that card is crazy especially because you can add movement to it (and use boots).
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