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Ascension: Gift of the Elements» Forums » General

Subject: Will the next set mix well with Gift of the Elements? rss

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How does WoS mix with DS and GoE?
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Razoupaf wrote:
How does WoS mix with DS and GoE?


I have yet to play GoE. However, DS with X/WoS...
--Vigil's Resolve improves My and HI, whereas there are 2 cards in WoS that acquire them into your hand.

--Ashes To Ashes (3/x DS)
Banishes all cards in the CR. Nice if you want to try to change the state of day/night
--Wicked End
There are some singular, powerful Monsters in WoS

deeth82 wrote:
Oh, Huuuze... whistle

The subject line is pretty self-explanatory, but I only ask because Realms Unraveled and Dawn of Champions mixed so well, IMHO, that I would love to see another "block" set that meshes well together, if possible. I still greatly enjoy War of Shadows and Dreamscape by themselves, but would love to either see the next game in this block mixing well with GotE, or perhaps some small (read: Apprentice-Edition-sized) expansions to the previous expandalone releases.
I recall the Asc. crew saying they won't be (or will avoid) doing small sets, as they don't sell as well as they'd like.

Even though there have been some non-block forming sets, I don't recall them saying that will be no more.
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Motoningennoken wrote:
Also re-work the solo mode: needs more challenge. Last few sets have been more of a beat your own score.


In Gift of the Elements specifically you can have the Infest monsters defeated by the Nemesis go to your discard pile instead of the Void as you might expect an opponent would do. That may not be harsh enough to make it challenging but it does at least add something to slow you down a little. Playing around with more ways that a ramped up Infest-like mechanic could clog your deck as monsters show up/are defeated may be a neat way to balance out unrestricted access to so many Empower cards.
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deeth82 wrote:
For me, DS and WoS just felt too different, but maybe I should go back and play them mixed a few more times. Based on your assessment above, are you saying that you feel they work well together, or not?


I thought that DS and WoS did not combine well, they both rely so heavily or their own unique mechanics that both ended up watered down. That's just my experience and I tend toward mostly playing the arcs exclusively so it's not a surprise I didn't like those sets together.

I do see the possibility for GotE to mix more naturally with another set but I think that it would have to maintain the same level of balance between deck clogging (Infest) and thinning (Empower) to prevent either of those from becoming too dominant. I really like how balanced they feel in its current form.
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Motoningennoken wrote:
Sounds request. Also re-work the solo mode: needs more challenge. Last few sets have been more of a beat your own score.


There's a variant called battle the cultist in the main game's forum that is much better than the official rules. It has one CR for the monsters and one for Heroes/constructs. Monsters come into play tapped, and are awakened according to the cultist's VP pool. If they're awakened at the beginning of the cultist's turn they score VP according to their cost. Then the cultist grabs a random card (D6) and scores its cost or value. If no monster was awakened this turn he grabs another one.
It's too easy too but MUCH more interesting!

Also, thanks Deeth and Ackmon
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dotKeller wrote:
deeth82 wrote:
For me, DS and WoS just felt too different, but maybe I should go back and play them mixed a few more times. Based on your assessment above, are you saying that you feel they work well together, or not?


I thought that DS and WoS did not combine well, they both rely so heavily or their own unique mechanics that both ended up watered down. That's just my experience and I tend toward mostly playing the arcs exclusively so it's not a surprise I didn't like those sets together.


Well, this is at the mercy of luck, but to me, concentrating on a mechanic also makes it unfun in its own way.

With just DS, Insight is much more prominent that you can often count of being able to get more ds cards than not. There's not really any uncertainty/tension there.

With just WoS, the night/day state can change so dramatically that it can be its own exercise in tracking that (the app tells you if it's night, day, or neither automatically, but I'm talking about trying to work out odds and how to go about your CR interactions).
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deeth82 wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
dotKeller wrote:
deeth82 wrote:
For me, DS and WoS just felt too different, but maybe I should go back and play them mixed a few more times. Based on your assessment above, are you saying that you feel they work well together, or not?


I thought that DS and WoS did not combine well, they both rely so heavily or their own unique mechanics that both ended up watered down. That's just my experience and I tend toward mostly playing the arcs exclusively so it's not a surprise I didn't like those sets together.


Well, this is at the mercy of luck, but to me, concentrating on a mechanic also makes it unfun in its own way.

With just DS, Insight is much more prominent that you can often count of being able to get more ds cards than not. There's not really any uncertainty/tension there.

With just WoS, the night/day state can change so dramatically that it can be its own exercise in tracking that (the app tells you if it's night, day, or neither automatically, but I'm talking about trying to work out odds and how to go about your CR interactions).


This is an interesting take on the randomness of mixing the two, but I have to say that reading this made me realize that what you were saying about being OK with that randomness is EXACTLY what I have stated on other game forums here at BGG. It really made me pause, because that random nature in games is something I'm usually more than OK with (life is full of chaos and randomness; half the battle is figuring out ways to mitigate that), hence, why I love deck-builders and dice games so much. Now I feel like I'm on the other side of things...on the outside looking in, so to speak...and I guess all I can offer up is that the two expansions just don't...feel right when mixed, to me, mechanically speaking. I'm not sure I could offer anything empirical to back that up, besides dilution (happens in some ways with all mixed sets), so before I ramble too much more, let me just say that you've got me thinking that I need to try and play them mixed again and sort of step back and see if maybe I've been taking the whole thing too seriously.

I did not expect to have my mind blown today. wow

I would also like to add.. consider how many sets you use. If you're just using DS and Wots, chances are, Insight and night/day cards will still be "sufficiently prominent". If you mix in ALL expansions, then I wouldn't count on them appearing much, if at all. However, in the case you do get something that's perpetual (like a card that keeps generating Insight, as opposed to a 1-shot deal, or a day/night card that's hard to get out of the CR), that could certainly be a nice, windfall advantage.

For example, with an all expansions game, I always just choose the cheapest DS cards, as I'll be hard pressed to afford the 1-costs, let alone expensive/all of them. With Energy, I'll only buy cards if their non-energize effects will get decent utility.
EDIT: Or, the 10-cost ones, as those have a provision where you can (at least try to) get them for free.


Push come to shove, it's a card game like any other, so luck's a constant. However, Ascension is its own beast as far as extremes and swings go. I've definitely had extremes both in my favor, and really against me. They've still been very fun cool As you mentioned, you just learn to deal with it and enjoy the ride.
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deeth82 wrote:
love to either see the next game in this block

Unfortunately, as others have noted, the "block" format is not something we're able to support any longer. The time/fiscal cost associated with doing a small set proved to take just as long as a large set, but with much lower interest and margins.

The team is discussing ways in which we can bring back older mechanics in a bite-size manner. Booster packs are on the table, as well as some other ideas.

Somewhat related, we're putting the finishing touches on "Set 12" as I write this message...and possibly more! ninja

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How about skipping every other set and giving that saved design time to sets that are released?

That would have prevented things like Verdagris and Hedron Berserker, and could haven given birth to decent solitaire rules and drafting for Dreamscape cards, for instance.

That would also allow feedback from players and give time to come back on interesting mechanics. People are begging for more dream cards. Dreamscape 2 would probably have made more people happy than War of Shadows (tried on the app, I really, really don't like those dualcost cards and the night/day cycle is IMO the weakest way you could implement this mechanic), Gift of the Elements and set 12.
 
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Razoupaf wrote:
How about skipping every other set and giving that saved design time to sets that are released?

That would have prevented things like Verdagris and Hedron Berserker, and could haven given birth to decent solitaire rules and drafting for Dreamscape cards, for instance.

That would also allow feedback from players and give time to come back on interesting mechanics. People are begging for more dream cards. Dreamscape 2 would probably have made more people happy than War of Shadows (tried on the app, I really, really don't like those dualcost cards and the night/day cycle is IMO the weakest way you could implement this mechanic), Gift of the Elements and set 12.


IANAGD (I am not a game designer), but I'd reckon they want to make more money from have more sets than roughly half the number of them. [shrug]
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ackmondual wrote:
Razoupaf wrote:
How about skipping every other set and giving that saved design time to sets that are released?

That would have prevented things like Verdagris and Hedron Berserker, and could haven given birth to decent solitaire rules and drafting for Dreamscape cards, for instance.

That would also allow feedback from players and give time to come back on interesting mechanics. People are begging for more dream cards. Dreamscape 2 would probably have made more people happy than War of Shadows (tried on the app, I really, really don't like those dualcost cards and the night/day cycle is IMO the weakest way you could implement this mechanic), Gift of the Elements and set 12.


IANAGD (I am not a game designer), but I'd reckon they want to make more money from have more sets than roughly half the number of them. [shrug]


They pretty obviously want the money. They've made it clear.
 
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Hope so as from what I've seen of Gift after getting it recently, I'm liking it a lot plus the last one of Dreamscape. However with the events in Gifts, I'm wondering if it would mix well with Storm of Souls & those events too. I'll have to try it out to see if it works.
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By the way, next set is called Valley of the Kings.
 
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Valley of the Ancients, and I've been happily mixing it with War of Shadows.

However, I just picked up GotE with the intent of adding it to the other two, but having looked through the cards, now I'm not so sure.

GotE seems to have strict mechanics built into many of the cards that I don't think will blend well with other sets - especially the stuff about playing monsters from your hand.

Also, coming from VotA, it is painfully obvious that the Empower cards should have gold lightning borders but don't.

Dunno what I'm going to do now.

I wonder if Dreamscape would have been a better choice.

Argh.
 
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ZUR13L wrote:
I wonder if Dreamscape would have been a better choice.
Argh.


No it wouldn't. The set relies on Insight and you wouldn't have a lot of Insight because you would dilute the cards with VotA.

You could easily mix it with Dawn of Champions or Realms Unraveled which are pretty generic and don't have mechanics that cannibalize the design.
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Razoupaf wrote:
ZUR13L wrote:
I wonder if Dreamscape would have been a better choice.
Argh.


No it wouldn't. The set relies on Insight and you wouldn't have a lot of Insight because you would dilute the cards with VotA.

You could easily mix it with Dawn of Champions or Realms Unraveled which are pretty generic and don't have mechanics that cannibalize the design.
In cases with dilution, you could always try any variants that make those shortcomings more prominent.
 
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