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Subject: Promoting Ogre rss

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wolf90 (Drew)
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[This is a repeat of the thread on the SJGs forums. If you answered there, you do not need to answer here. Thank you, THANK YOU, for taking the time to offer me this feedback!]

Reading the forum on the Stakeholder report, it's apparent that we here at SJGs can do a better job in communicating with the gaming world. So I'd like to examine that a bit. I know a number of changes are already occurring to improve this from a company-wide perspective, but I want to know how should we do this for Ogre? So with that in mind, I'd like to open up the forum to an evaluation as to our communication on Ogre. I can't properly advance the game if I don't know what matters to you.

- Other than the forums, how do you learn about Ogre?

- Other than the forums, how would you prefer to hear about Ogre?

- Are you subscribed to our mailing list? If not, why not? (Click "Join Group" at https://groups.google.com/a/sjgames.com/forum/#!forum/ogrene... !)

- (Knowing that I'm preaching to the choir): What will encourage you to support Ogre in the future?

- What am I/are we doing right?

- What am I/are we doing wrong? Follow-up question: What should we change to improve this?

Any other comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

D.

New question NOT on the SJG post: How should we encourage new players to try our game?

D.
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Geoff Speare
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Quote:
- Other than the forums, how do you learn about Ogre?


BGG, Kickstarter updates

Quote:
- Other than the forums, how would you prefer to hear about Ogre?


The same

Quote:
- Are you subscribed to our mailing list? If not, why not? (Click "Join Group" at https://groups.google.com/a/sjgames.com/forum/#!forum/ogrene... !)


I get enough email as it is.

Quote:
- (Knowing that I'm preaching to the choir): What will encourage you to support Ogre in the future?


More support! It's been great so far, just keep up the good work.

Quote:
- What am I/are we doing right?


Bringing out interesting new stuff, showing that Ogre is well supported.

Quote:
- What am I/are we doing wrong? Follow-up question: What should we change to improve this?


Finishing all of the ODE KS items would be a plus; maybe you've done this already, it's been so long I stopped keeping track.

I think more scenarios is the long-term path for Ogre, there are only so many rules/units you can add.

Quote:
New question NOT on the SJG post: How should we encourage new players to try our game?


I would imagine O6 is a good start for this, a good entry point. Anything else from a production standpoint that makes the game easier to play/track will help. It's clear that the game system promotes itself once you are exposed to it.
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galfridus wrote:
I think more scenarios is the long-term path for Ogre, there are only so many rules/units you can add.

I agree (and I have nearly everything that's ever been put out, with my duplicate copies of the basic games and reinforcements more than making up for any lack of Ogrethulu, Autoduel Ogre, GURPS Ogre, Illuminati Ogre, or Ogre Munchkin). Scenario Book #1 is just great and the long wait for #2 was recently rewarded by the contest.

Another product, which worked for Car Wars, would be maps. I made a map of the region around the city near which I used to live, and my group loved it. "That howitzer's at the shopping mall" or "the Ogre's tearing up the grass on the golf course." And I know there are other fan-made maps of other places, so I think these would be a highly popular product.
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That's a lot of questions, but if you want to push Ogre forward, I'd look at an Ogre 7th Edition containing an Ogre Miniatures-scale map on lightweight cardstock, with a red Ogre mk.III and the PanEuro minis from Ogre Miniatures Set 1. That's a complete Ogre Miniatures game in a box right there!
 
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Martin Gallo
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wolf90 wrote:
- Other than the forums, how do you learn about Ogre?
Sorry, I spend most of my gaming-related on-line time on BGG and CSW. I do have an SJG account.

wolf90 wrote:
- Other than the forums, how would you prefer to hear about Ogre?
E-Mailers??? Steve could call me personally now that I have forgiven the company for lying to me 34 years ago.

wolf90 wrote:
- (Knowing that I'm preaching to the choir): What will encourage you to support Ogre in the future?
New maps and scenarios. One issue with the game is that it is fairly complete as is, which makes it tough to "keep alive" with today's "expansion-based" consumers. It might require an organized fan-based following effort, similar to what other companies have done.

wolf90 wrote:
- What am I/are we doing right?
You brought a great game back to the market. It presents really well! The minis are a great idea - they present better than the standees, when painted.

wolf90 wrote:
- What am I/are we doing wrong? Follow-up question: What should we change to improve this?
I thought you guys were doing just fine, but I am an old-timer looking through biased eyes.

wolf90 wrote:
New question NOT on the SJG post: How should we encourage new players to try our game?
Other than an ambassador-like program I have no idea.
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Domenic
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wolf90 wrote:

- Other than the forums, how do you learn about Ogre?

- Other than the forums, how would you prefer to hear about Ogre?

Mostly I see the BGG forums, but I also get updates from the Ogre Minis KS. Occasionally I check out the SJ Games site to review the last few daily updates.

Quote:

- (Knowing that I'm preaching to the choir): What will encourage you to support Ogre in the future?

...

How should we encourage new players to try our game?

For me, Ogre is the basic Mark III/CP scenario. It has straightforward rules; it's easy to play as the Ogre without a full understanding of every detail of those rules; it plays quickly; it's very asymmetrical. I didn't buy any version of GEV until I decided the over-the-top production of the Designer's Edition was something I wanted on my shelf. So I don't have a lot to say about how to get me to buy more Ogre, but for *new* players, I think the advantages of Ogre could be emphasized.

Ogre: Sixth Edition and the starter set for the X-Wing Miniatures game cost about the same. Both are science-fiction war games. Neither is aimed at the true grognard. But the X-Wing game is harder to learn, is less asymmetrical, and requires substantial additional purchases to play the "real" game. I would try to make it clear to potential new players both how easy it is to pick up and start playing *and* just how much game is in the box. (Even when you only play the basic scenario, the defensive options available are almost limitless.)

I guess the real question is how do you get that message out there. I'm not sure I have any insight there. One thought is that it seems like you have a big built-in advertising channel through Munchkin inserts. Munchkin and Ogre are very different games, but something like "You know what's more powerful than a +3 Sword of Slaying? An Ogre." might get some traction.

If you're doing YouTube videos, you might show the huge number of units required to be a fair fight against an Ogre, then a parent playing with a young child getting coached through the game, then cut to an older guy talking about how he's excited to try the free rivers expansion for the first time and has opted to change his strategy by using more Missile Tanks because he thinks the longer range will be more important (or whatever).

Also, since you've already created model files for the Ogre Minis campaign, it shouldn't be too hard to create a video that shows the Ogre to scale with the rest of the units. Again, the asymmetry of the game is a key part of the appeal. Find a way to present the Ogre as the awesome war machine it is and people will realize that they want a chance to pilot it.

Just my 2c.
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Matt L.
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Hey Drew,

Here's some background for the rest of what I'm writing : I had never heard of or played Ogre before the Ogre-DE Kickstarter happened. I didn't back (seemed ridiculous) but I picked up a copy from someone else who backed. I jumped at every add-on pack that I could find and I've organized and sorted everything in that big box multiple times. I've NEVER EVER been able to get anyone to PLAY Ogre with me, largely due to the gigantic box, it's slightly intimidating to people I invite over and the game isn't for everyone anyways. That said, you could certainly do more from my perspective to communicate about Ogre. I'll probably come off very critical here, but rest-assured, I've tried to get my hands on everything I can for Ogre (Ogre-DE KS'er edition, all the addon packs, 6th Edition, and Reinforcements so far!), I'm trying to stay with you here, so here's some feedback from a fan that wants to be a fan.

wolf90 wrote:

- Other than the forums, how do you learn about Ogre?

Forums? Do you mean the Steve Jackson forums? forget it, I have no idea what anyone is talking about in those forums and I don't need another forum to read. When you say 'learn about Ogre' do you mean as a product? new releases and bits? I'm on the mailing list, more on that later. In short, if it's not on BGG or in an email, I have no idea what's happening with Ogre.

wolf90 wrote:

- Other than the forums, how would you prefer to hear about Ogre?

Emails and detailed product release information here on BGG. Don't make me hunt down details. I don't want to go to every game publisher's website, BGG is our meeting ground, I'm here and subscribed to the products I want more info on, you swing by and tell me what's going on and we're all set.

wolf90 wrote:

- Are you subscribed to our mailing list?

Yes, seems like I never heard from you, then I have 3 emails in 3 weeks. Here's some feedback on these.

Operation: Newspaper - ODE-Style! - "Operation Newspaper" is a scenario written by Steve Jackson in support of the supplement, Shockwave, and published in The Ogre Book.
- Ok, I don't have those supplements, so I guess I can't use this? This information could be formatted better, maybe include some kind of graphics to help me visualize what we're talking about here.

The Latest Ogre Releases - The last few weeks have been good for the Ogre line.
- List of products and supplements, not really sure what these are, I COULD click the links and try to figure it out, but I haven't cared to just yet, Oh but I'll order Reinforcements since that's clearly a thing I can just get. No graphics on what we're talking about, seems that there's an assumption that I have some familiarity with this but I'll just mark this email as read and come back to it later.

Does BPC Degrade In Water?
- I have no idea what BPC stands for, there's no graphics in this email... you're really losing me here.

wolf90 wrote:

- (Knowing that I'm preaching to the choir): What will encourage you to support Ogre in the future?

- Choir? I'm here on BGG with hundreds of other games that I CAN actually get to the table with friends and the only thing that keeps me paying any attention to Ogre is the occasional email or BGG post about it which reminds me of the fantasy of Saturday afternoon battles in the garage that remain unfulfilled. What will I do with this in the future, I don't know, if I've got disposable cash I'll try to stay up with it since I'm just certain this will one day be awesome to play (my boys should be ready to play in about 7 years?), but Ogre is literally the lowest priority thing on my Board Game purchase lists.

wolf90 wrote:

- What am I/are we doing right?

- You rescued Nightfall, super huge win and a major boost to my respect for you and the Ogre line, seriously.
- You're continuing to release things and the product is still alive, the 6th edition and Reinforcements are great to see things happening.

wolf90 wrote:

- What am I/are we doing wrong? Follow-up question: What should we change to improve this?

- You seem to be assuming (on the emails) that I'm dialed in on Ogre, I'm not on Facebook, or Twitter, or SJGForums, just here and I'm just looking for a solid game, I'm not digging through the fiction, I'm not going to SJG website to see what's going on, I'm waiting for you (or someone else on BGG) to tell me about the products.

- I think you should change by posting detailed product information on BGG, maybe make some videos about the games and supplements, give me some promotional materials to review, a simple unboxing would do wonders. Give me some fiction about the scenarios, sell me on some sci-fi battle scenarios! Look at the info for Ogre : Reinforcements here on BGG, it's an expansion for Ogre, to be used with Both? somethings? and I apparently don't need it because I have all of it? I don't know WHAT that product is and the only information on it is a single review, this is terrible.

- I would encourage you to take a really big step-back and before you send another email try to ask "What would someone who knows nothing about this product need to hear?" because that's what I want to know. I have Ogre, but I don't know anything about it, now you're releasing more products, you need to tell me about them and why I need to buy them. Don't make assumptions that any of this makes sense, just tell me about the products. If I have to go fish for information, I'm not going to buy it.

wolf90 wrote:

New question NOT on the SJG post: How should we encourage new players to try our game?

- Start SELLING IT! Post some sharply edited battle reports, give me some videos of some of the new scenarios in-action (edited for brevity please, I don't want to watch a 4 hour game).
- The 6E is a good start, but publish more scenarios, give me a campaign made up of small multi-phase battles that I could play over lunch with someone for the next few weeks. I can't lug that big Ogre-DE box to work, but I might load up the 6E box with stuff for a specific scenario.
- Let's get serious about these product emails, joining a google group and getting plain-text emails is not a "New User Friendly" strategy.

I've enjoyed playing with the pieces for Ogre, and I look forward to actually playing the game one day, even if it is in seven years. I hope my feedback is not taken too harshly, I know that all of what I've suggested requires more time and money to invest, I don't make these suggestions as though they're easy. You all have my deepest respect for the clear love that you have for Ogre and the community around it, my feedback is honest in the hopes that you can take some value from my frustrations.

~Matt
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wolf90 wrote:
Reading the forum on the Stakeholder report, it's apparent that we here at SJGs can do a better job in communicating with the gaming world.


How are you defining "gaming world"? As I understand it, SJG's best-selling product is Munchkin. Munchkin's not exactly popular on BGG (nor is Zombie Dice, another well-selling product), so I'd like to know better your expected benefits of listening to the BGG audience, even if it's confirmation of interest in games that don't bring in the cash, but Steve and the rest of you enjoy playing (eg. Ogre).

From reading the stakeholder report, I'm seeing less communication problems than problems resulting from SJG's use of KS. If anything, it looks like KS has put *more* demands on SJG, not made it easier for them to release product. If you've been following Mantic's history with KS, the quality of their products went down after Mantic starting using KS, along with their reputation, particularly Dungeon Saga. Even one of their lead designers stopped working for them. Mantic *recently* recovered, but I don't think KS is the solution. Perhaps SJG should look at increasing more staff to run more projects, easier said than done.

Ogre's a two-player game, making it more difficult to publicize at Meetups than your typical Eurogame or even Munchkin. It's also not a miniatures game, so you don't see attractive pretty miniatures like you do Games Workshop and umpteen other miniatures wargames. It's a classic, not a crankout, so it doesn't qualify as being a member of the Cult of the New. There's no pent-up demand for it, like there is Car Wars. If it's sales are waning, so what? Ogre survived fine before the 2012 KS, SJG has plenty of other projects to work on, so you could put just enough Ogre (eg. the small envelope and fanmade scenarios) out there to keep the game alive but build up interest in a deluxe set again. (BTW, How're Pyramid sales? I don't know other game companies who have a house magazine, and I think content that used to be in a house magazine may be better used to keep interest in a game.)

BGG does have a wargames guild (which I never hear from), so perhaps you can ask them how they publicize wargames and get more players into the hobby. Or you could use SJG's revisions of its classic to its advantage, by looking less at "how do we support Ogre" than "how do we promote Car Wars" and "how do we keep our games known by our fans".
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LunaWolvesMan wrote:

- Start SELLING IT! Post some sharply edited battle reports, give me some videos of some of the new scenarios in-action (edited for brevity please, I don't want to watch a 4 hour game).


This Video Battle Report is posted on YouTube and SJGs posted a link to it on their FaceBook Page. Atm, this is the only one I've made. They are fun to make...but very tedious and time consuming to make. Keep in mind this was made using Windows Media Maker.

[b]GEV ESCORT...Official Scenario Playthrough...September 11 2016
https://youtu.be/TzctnVqBvV8

GEV ESCORT Scenario

http://www.sjgames.com/ogre/scenarios/gev-escort.html
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LunaWolvesMan wrote:
Hey Drew,

Here's some background for the rest of what I'm writing : I had never heard of or played Ogre before the Ogre-DE Kickstarter happened. I didn't back (seemed ridiculous) but I picked up a copy from someone else who backed. I jumped at every add-on pack that I could find and I've organized and sorted everything in that big box multiple times. I've NEVER EVER been able to get anyone to PLAY Ogre with me, largely due to the gigantic box, it's slightly intimidating to people I invite over and the game isn't for everyone anyways. That said, you could certainly do more from my perspective to communicate about Ogre. I'll probably come off very critical here, but rest-assured, I've tried to get my hands on everything I can for Ogre (Ogre-DE KS'er edition, all the addon packs, 6th Edition, and Reinforcements so far!), I'm trying to stay with you here, so here's some feedback from a fan that wants to be a fan.

wolf90 wrote:

- Other than the forums, how do you learn about Ogre?

Forums? Do you mean the Steve Jackson forums? forget it, I have no idea what anyone is talking about in those forums and I don't need another forum to read. When you say 'learn about Ogre' do you mean as a product? new releases and bits? I'm on the mailing list, more on that later. In short, if it's not on BGG or in an email, I have no idea what's happening with Ogre.

wolf90 wrote:

- Other than the forums, how would you prefer to hear about Ogre?

Emails and detailed product release information here on BGG. Don't make me hunt down details. I don't want to go to every game publisher's website, BGG is our meeting ground, I'm here and subscribed to the products I want more info on, you swing by and tell me what's going on and we're all set.

wolf90 wrote:

- Are you subscribed to our mailing list?

Yes, seems like I never heard from you, then I have 3 emails in 3 weeks. Here's some feedback on these.

Operation: Newspaper - ODE-Style! - "Operation Newspaper" is a scenario written by Steve Jackson in support of the supplement, Shockwave, and published in The Ogre Book.
- Ok, I don't have those supplements, so I guess I can't use this? This information could be formatted better, maybe include some kind of graphics to help me visualize what we're talking about here.

The Latest Ogre Releases - The last few weeks have been good for the Ogre line.
- List of products and supplements, not really sure what these are, I COULD click the links and try to figure it out, but I haven't cared to just yet, Oh but I'll order Reinforcements since that's clearly a thing I can just get. No graphics on what we're talking about, seems that there's an assumption that I have some familiarity with this but I'll just mark this email as read and come back to it later.

Does BPC Degrade In Water?
- I have no idea what BPC stands for, there's no graphics in this email... you're really losing me here.

wolf90 wrote:

- (Knowing that I'm preaching to the choir): What will encourage you to support Ogre in the future?

- Choir? I'm here on BGG with hundreds of other games that I CAN actually get to the table with friends and the only thing that keeps me paying any attention to Ogre is the occasional email or BGG post about it which reminds me of the fantasy of Saturday afternoon battles in the garage that remain unfulfilled. What will I do with this in the future, I don't know, if I've got disposable cash I'll try to stay up with it since I'm just certain this will one day be awesome to play (my boys should be ready to play in about 7 years?), but Ogre is literally the lowest priority thing on my Board Game purchase lists.

wolf90 wrote:

- What am I/are we doing right?

- You rescued Nightfall, super huge win and a major boost to my respect for you and the Ogre line, seriously.
- You're continuing to release things and the product is still alive, the 6th edition and Reinforcements are great to see things happening.

wolf90 wrote:

- What am I/are we doing wrong? Follow-up question: What should we change to improve this?

- You seem to be assuming (on the emails) that I'm dialed in on Ogre, I'm not on Facebook, or Twitter, or SJGForums, just here and I'm just looking for a solid game, I'm not digging through the fiction, I'm not going to SJG website to see what's going on, I'm waiting for you (or someone else on BGG) to tell me about the products.

- I think you should change by posting detailed product information on BGG, maybe make some videos about the games and supplements, give me some promotional materials to review, a simple unboxing would do wonders. Give me some fiction about the scenarios, sell me on some sci-fi battle scenarios! Look at the info for Ogre : Reinforcements here on BGG, it's an expansion for Ogre, to be used with Both? somethings? and I apparently don't need it because I have all of it? I don't know WHAT that product is and the only information on it is a single review, this is terrible.

- I would encourage you to take a really big step-back and before you send another email try to ask "What would someone who knows nothing about this product need to hear?" because that's what I want to know. I have Ogre, but I don't know anything about it, now you're releasing more products, you need to tell me about them and why I need to buy them. Don't make assumptions that any of this makes sense, just tell me about the products. If I have to go fish for information, I'm not going to buy it.

wolf90 wrote:

New question NOT on the SJG post: How should we encourage new players to try our game?

- Start SELLING IT! Post some sharply edited battle reports, give me some videos of some of the new scenarios in-action (edited for brevity please, I don't want to watch a 4 hour game).
- The 6E is a good start, but publish more scenarios, give me a campaign made up of small multi-phase battles that I could play over lunch with someone for the next few weeks. I can't lug that big Ogre-DE box to work, but I might load up the 6E box with stuff for a specific scenario.
- Let's get serious about these product emails, joining a google group and getting plain-text emails is not a "New User Friendly" strategy.

I've enjoyed playing with the pieces for Ogre, and I look forward to actually playing the game one day, even if it is in seven years. I hope my feedback is not taken too harshly, I know that all of what I've suggested requires more time and money to invest, I don't make these suggestions as though they're easy. You all have my deepest respect for the clear love that you have for Ogre and the community around it, my feedback is honest in the hopes that you can take some value from my frustrations.

~Matt


I totally agree with this, especially the remarks about putting the info on BGG. I would actually go further and suggest that SJG forums be closed. They split the community. Just have it all here. One place.

We organize a Play to Win event, mostly through the Envoy program of Jamey Stegmeijer, once a year at our spring convention. It is enormously popular. This may be a good program to start supporting.
 
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Sam and Max wrote:
Ogre's a two-player game, making it more difficult to publicize at Meetups than your typical Eurogame or even Munchkin. It's also not a miniatures game, so you don't see attractive pretty miniatures like you do Games Workshop and umpteen other miniatures wargames.


That's not strictly true, as Ogre Miniatures has been a thing for a very long time.

The problem is that SJG hasn't sold an Ogre Miniatures edition since Ogre Deluxe Edition.

With the new plastics coming on line, SJG should retire the counters and move to a plastic miniatures game. The red mk.III vs blue units will look great and should sell quite well.

OTOH, if SJG continues to push the outdated counters, the game has zero chance to take off.

Does SJG want Ogre 7E to be like X-wing? Because that's the way to success.
 
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I probably heard about it first on discussions at The Miniatures Page.

Being a primarily miniatures forum, that would be a good place to put up a banner ad promoting the miniatures!

Sell hard copies of the full Deluxe Rulebook!!!! The pdf is expensive to print out, and I would just as soon buy a hardcopy of the rules. I am a miniatures gamer, with plenty of miniatures coming through the KS to play the game. I have zero interest in buying boardgames and paying for all the cardboard that I will never use just to get a hardcopy of the rules. And even less interest in buying a basic boardgame and then expansion boardgames to get all the rules. Grr.

Roll up game mats for Ogre and GEV would also be nice support material for miniatures gamers (and cardboarders who want something more portable to bring out of the house).
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Yeah, an OGRE map on mousepad material would be a Must Purchase for me.
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wolf90 wrote:

New question NOT on the SJG post: How should we encourage new players to try our game?


Provide better support directly to local retail stores. When I saw your announcement that you were providing demo kits to stores this winter, I asked the Events Manager at my FLGS if they were getting one of the kits and I volunteered to run the event. They had not heard of the kits directly, they got no notice through their regular distributor that this was something they could order. I sent them a copy of your announcement. They did put in an order for a kit. But apparently the kits were limited supply and they did not receive one. And so, we did not run a demo event at the store.

Run novice events and tournaments at conventions. At Pax East, I went by the SJG booth a couple of times and never saw Ogre even being demoed (also asked if I could buy a hardcopy of the Deluxe rules, to no avail). Pax Unplugged is coming to Philly this fall, that would be a good place to actually roll out demo games and events with the miniatures.
 
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Cat_O wrote:
I am a miniatures gamer, with plenty of miniatures coming through the KS to play the game. I have zero interest in buying boardgames and paying for all the cardboard that I will never use just to get a hardcopy of the rules.

Roll up game mats for Ogre and GEV would also be nice support material for miniatures gamers (and cardboarders who want something more portable to bring out of the house).


Agreed. Particularly as Steve loves to demo the miniatures over the counters. They just look so much better. We're supposed to get Ogre Miniatures 2nd Edition, so maybe they'll tackle that when Ogre Miniatures Set 2 launches?

I Kickstarted Ogre for the giant maps. If those were rollup mousepads, that would be awesome.

To summarize:

The coming Ogre Miniatures Set 2 KickStarter should offer
* core offering of Ogre Miniatures pack with Mobile CP;
* alternate green and GitD sets;
* optional Ogre Miniatures 2nd Edition rulebook; and
* optional mousepad Ogre, GEV and Shockwave maps.

Make it so!
 
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Keith Carter
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wolf90 wrote:
- Other than the forums, how do you learn about Ogre?

I am subscribed to the BGG Ogre forums. I check the SJG forums a little less than once a month on average. I get the ODE Kickstarter updates. I check the Ogre Mini set #1 Kickstarter for updates every 4 to 6 weeks (I got my FLGS to pledge so I don't get those updates). I am subscribed to the mailing list. I have some game buddies that are interested in Ogre but don't track it closely. I pass along Ogre product development tidbits to them when I come across one that I think they would be interested in.

wolf90 wrote:
- Other than the forums, how would you prefer to hear about Ogre?

The mailing list works fine for me.

wolf90 wrote:
- Are you subscribed to our mailing list? If not, why not? (Click "Join Group" at https://groups.google.com/a/sjgames.com/forum/#!forum/ogrene... !)

Yes I am subscribed.

wolf90 wrote:
- (Knowing that I'm preaching to the choir): What will encourage you to support Ogre in the future?

Apparently all you need to do is come out with something. I bought 3 ODE, one full set of the sponsored sheets and two of some of them, I bought an extra set of ODE counters, 2 sets of Classic Counters, an extra set of the ODE GEV style maps (as mounting platforms for my own map creations), 2 Ogre 6th ed., acquired all the recent digital releases, and acquired 15 sets of Ogre Pocket Edition by various means 9 of which I have given away to folks I introduced Ogre to. Now that Ogre 6th ed. is out those folks finally have an upgrade path.

wolf90 wrote:
- What am I/are we doing right?

I appreciate that there has been more of a steady stream of progress information the last year or so. Reaching out like this is a good thing to do.

wolf90 wrote:
- What am I/are we doing wrong? Follow-up question: What should we change to improve this?

I think SJG was already past most of the things they did wrong post ODE launch party by the time you arrived: dropping stretch goal progress reports for a policy of Don't Ask we will let you know when we are ready to let you know; hiring a line editor with effectively no Ogre experience; no effective product path for those that discovered Ogre post ODE availability other than OPE. I did think the organized play effort was anemic. My store knew about it because I told them. It was nice to have the demo game and supporting materials but there was no organization to the organized play.

wolf90 wrote:
Any other comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Do a comprehensive state of the stretch goals report. It has been years since anyone from SJG took on that responsibility. There should be at least one a year, I think 6 months would be better. Throw in some extra tidbits like whatever happened to the four scenarios being tested at the launch party.

You seem to have gotten a lot of mileage out of surveys on our product preferences in the past. Keep a lookout for such opportunities in the future.

wolf90 wrote:
New question NOT on the SJG post: How should we encourage new players to try our game?


It is an attractive game. Seeing it played has attracted more new players for me than simply a cold sell to get them to try it. I know folks that would run Ogre events at local game stores or cons using their own stuff. All they would need is some encouragement from Ogre headquarters and a little bit of supporting supplies.
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John Labelle
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To promote Ogre you could have built out of plywood an oversized MK 5, engineered in multiple slide together parts just like the Ogres that come with the new editions.
I mean OVERSIZED! Keep it small enough that all the disassembled pieces could fit in the back of a pickup truck.
Then, like the Travelocity Gnome "send it out" across the country to be assembled (quickly) in different locations (with the necessary permission).
Parks in major cities.
Farmer John's unused field by the side of the road.
A front lawn.
A town square.
The crest of a hill.
Places that people driving by wouldn't expect to see a Cyber Death Tank. And it wouldn't be set up for any length of time. A morning here, an afternoon there, a couple of hours in the park. Then it's off to another city or state.
TV stations and newspapers may find the story of the Giant Future Tank popping up a fun piece to run and you'll get free advertising. If everything works out, it may become "a thing", internet and otherwise.
People will definitely take photos of it. They will want to know what it's all about and google it. You could ask your supporters to help out and create a schedule of who's going to hand off the model to the next devotee and the Ogre would travel across the country for free conquering each state as it goes.
Just a thought I had driving down the highway today, imagining seeing an Ogre sitting on slopes above the highway in Connecticut. "That would be something to see" I said. Anyway, that's my outside the box idea for the day.
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Cat O\'Mighty
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What would help promote it at my FLGS would be quarterly Game Kits, similar to what FFG does (and continue to be quite successful at the store). For this to work best, the store needs to know about them directly through their regular distribution channels:

* Take pre-orders for the kits through Alliance. This is the best way to get the word directly to the stores when Alliance solicits the pre-orders. This also let's you know how many kits to provide, so that interested stores actually get hold of them. You can also recupe the cost of the kits to sustain the program.

* Include promotional posters for the store to put up, with a blank spot for them to fill in the date, and "NEW PLAYERS WELCOME!" in big bold letters.

* Include prizes to be given away. Such as:
** 32 scenario sheets with a new scenario for that quarter's kit.
** 32 terrain overlay pieces that used with that quarter's scenario.
** 8 vehicle/objective miniatures, a different one each quarter.
** 2 fancy prizes: GitD vehicles, or dice, different each quarter.
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I like board games more than most people.
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Give it more chevrons?
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Chris Nason
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Quote:
- Other than the forums, how do you learn about Ogre?


I had the old Ogre/GEV set and saw the ODE reboot on Kickstarter.

Quote:
- Other than the forums, how would you prefer to hear about Ogre?


Advertise on BGG.

Quote:
- Are you subscribed to our mailing list? If not, why not?


I am now!

Quote:
- (Knowing that I'm preaching to the choir): What will encourage you to support Ogre in the future?


Easy: more releases. I don't know how profitable this would be, but what about smaller releases? FFG cranks out new X-Wing ships all the time. Could SJG put out say, smaller reinforcement packs? You know, like a blister pack with a stack of regular flat units or blisters with one or two 3D constructs? They could be special PanEuro or Combine units, maybe with a modified color scheme or some small bonus ability or modified stats. Example: 307th Combine Assault Cavalry, featuring GEVs with 3/2 attack.

Quote:
- What am I/are we doing right?


You brought the game back. You're obviously interested in supporting it.

Quote:
- What am I/are we doing wrong? Follow-up question: What should we change to improve this?


More stuff. Without product releases on a semi-regular basis I don't see how the game will sustain itself. OP helps as well, but that can be tricky to pull off as I suspect a lot of FLGS probably aren't interested/don't recognize the fan base.

Quote:
New question NOT on the SJG post: How should we encourage new players to try our game?


Put the game out as an app.
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Domenic
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Zimzerveran wrote:

Quote:
- (Knowing that I'm preaching to the choir): What will encourage you to support Ogre in the future?


Easy: more releases. I don't know how profitable this would be, but what about smaller releases? FFG cranks out new X-Wing ships all the time. Could SJG put out say, smaller reinforcement packs? You know, like a blister pack with a stack of regular flat units or blisters with one or two 3D constructs? They could be special PanEuro or Combine units, maybe with a modified color scheme or some small bonus ability or modified stats. Example: 307th Combine Assault Cavalry, featuring GEVs with 3/2 attack.

I just started playing Small World, and I wonder if a similar expansion system would work for Ogre at a similar price point. A 4"x8" piece of paperboard with 6 copies of a new unit in each of two colors, a single piece of paper with rules for the unit (armor value, special rules, etc) and a scenario designed to showcase the unit. For me, the combination would be the key.

If it were just a scenario, I would buy it as a PDF when I was ready to play it, but probably wouldn't buy it off of a shelf. If it were just new units, I would expect them either to be minor variations on existing ones, overpowered units that break existing balance, or underpowered units that won't get used - not a compelling buy in any case. But if you add a new unit that is typically balanced or slightly weak, but shines in a new scenario, it hits both buttons and - if priced low enough to be an impulse buy - I would pick it up.
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Brian Hegerty
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dommer2029 wrote:
Zimzerveran wrote:

Quote:
- (Knowing that I'm preaching to the choir): What will encourage you to support Ogre in the future?


Easy: more releases. I don't know how profitable this would be, but what about smaller releases? FFG cranks out new X-Wing ships all the time. Could SJG put out say, smaller reinforcement packs? You know, like a blister pack with a stack of regular flat units or blisters with one or two 3D constructs? They could be special PanEuro or Combine units, maybe with a modified color scheme or some small bonus ability or modified stats. Example: 307th Combine Assault Cavalry, featuring GEVs with 3/2 attack.

I just started playing Small World, and I wonder if a similar expansion system would work for Ogre at a similar price point. A 4"x8" piece of paperboard with 6 copies of a new unit in each of two colors, a single piece of paper with rules for the unit (armor value, special rules, etc) and a scenario designed to showcase the unit. For me, the combination would be the key.

If it were just a scenario, I would buy it as a PDF when I was ready to play it, but probably wouldn't buy it off of a shelf. If it were just new units, I would expect them either to be minor variations on existing ones, overpowered units that break existing balance, or underpowered units that won't get used - not a compelling buy in any case. But if you add a new unit that is typically balanced or slightly weak, but shines in a new scenario, it hits both buttons and - if priced low enough to be an impulse buy - I would pick it up.

100% Agree.
 
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