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A Game of Thrones (first edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Shorter Game Ideas for Discussion rss

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Don Smith
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The Eurogame crowd which I hang out with tends to balk at any games over 90-120 minutes. AGOT has gotten great reviews and I want to unleash it on my group but I doubt that a 4 hour game is what they want.

Here are some of my ideas for a shorter and more "Eurogamer-ish" version of AGOT:

1. Game lasts 6 turns.

2. Victory Points are awarded at the end of each turn.

2. Victory Points are awarded not only for strongholds and cities (2 VP's each) but for supply and power centres (1 VP each) controlled as well.

3. Victory Points are also awarded for position on each of the 3 influence tracks (i.e. from 1-5 VP's per player per track). A bonus of 2 VP's goes to the owner of each of the Sword, Raven and Fiefdom thingy at the end of each turn.

Any thoughts? Would this destroy the game or just make it a bit quicker and lighter?

Don
 
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Brad Miller
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Re:Shorter Game Ideas for Discussion
donsmith (#27315),

Yes it would destroy the game. Here's why:

1. Not a problem

2. Problem. Many times your position sucks because you want it to suck. You want to look like you are weak, so that you can avoid being targeted as the leader, and so that you can put yourself in position to make a surprise assault that gives you your cities to win.

3. Really, really bad idea. The Iron Throne track is generally seen as not being worth much so adding VPs for it seems odd, (but better than for the other tracks). The Fiefdoms track is already incredibly important, and being on the top in that confers a tremendous advantage. Giving a player VPs as well for that is just too brutal. The Raven track also already confers an advantage to those higher up, so this would be a double reward as well.

It would certainly make for a very different game.
 
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Don Smith
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Re:Shorter Game Ideas for Discussion
Windopaene (#27316),

OK, how about just a six turn game with VP's determined at the end of each turn just based on Strongholds/Cities (2VP's each) and Supply/Power centres (1 VP each)?

My main goal is to shorten the game - I understand that players who enjoy a longer, more diplomatic, perhaps more cutthroat game will not mind playing the full 10 turns. I can see the potential for most 5-player games being won based on Cities/Strongholds controlled at the end of Turn 10 - that pretty much guarantees a long (4 hour?) game.

Any suggestions for making the game last under two hours would be appreciated.

 
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Brad Miller
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Re:Shorter Game Ideas for Discussion
donsmith (#27335),

That would be interesting, no doubt. It would be a very different game though. You might also want to consider Stongholds 3VP, cities 2, crowns and barrels 1 vp. About the only thing that would mess that idea is that some of the houses have big imbalances in these last two, which would skew things for/against them. Tyrell I think would be screwed, (more than they already are).
 
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Miguel de la Casa
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Re:Shorter Game Ideas for Discussion
Windopaene (#27336),

In any case I wouldn't consider barrels or crowns for victory for another reason: rewarding them somehow you make every "province" about equally valuable, and desirable, while the standard victory conditions reward only cities and strongholds, thus making a very different game.
 
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Pantera
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Re:Shorter Game Ideas for Discussion
I think the big problem is your eurogame group, not the game. If you are alone in a group who only wants to play fast european games, I belive they wont like AGOT that much. It might not be a choice, but perhaps you could look for other groups in your area, who likes longer games and wargames. That way you could have the best of both worlds.

By shortening the game to 6 turns, it also raises the chance of games without some types of events, so if you plan to do it, you should also look at changing the Westeros cards somewhat.
 
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David M
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Re:Shorter Game Ideas for Discussion
donsmith (#27315),
I think your idea for victory points destroys the game. If you want to shorten the game, take out some of the westeros cards and play 6 turns. As someone pointed out, just because you have a lot of stronghold or cities in the beginning of the game doesn't mean you have the best chance of winning. I really enjoy the game length as it is, six turns might not be as fun.
 
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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Re:Shorter Game Ideas for Discussion
donsmith (#27315),

It might be a better idea to start mid-game. It would be great if you could find a balanced midgame situation for setup. Failing that, you could try a Settlers-style setup in which you play a fixed number of muster points and power tokens on the board. At a guess, four cities/strongholds including your capitol might be good. Then have a Clash of Kings for the first turn.

During setup, play one muster point per turn (placing a footsoldier, upgrading it to a knight or placing a ship). Update the supply as you go and limit people to it. (Letting them place power tokens in the middle might help that.) Requiring all placements to be on a city or adjacent to a previous placement will lead to open spaces and contested areas.
 
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Don Smith
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Re:Shorter Game Ideas for Discussion
Thanks to everyone who replied - I talked to a couple of the people in our group on Saturday, one who has played one game of AGOT, and they agreed we should try the game as written and see if we all enjoy it as much as you all seem to! If we all have fun then 3-4 hours flies by...

I'm pleased to see that so many of you love the game - makes me keen to get into it.

Regards.


 
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John McCoy
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Re:Shorter Game Ideas for Discussion
donsmith (#27572),

It only takes 3 hours to play if the game lasts all 10 turns. So in your first few games just make sure that you win by turn 5, and your friends will love the game!
 
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Miguel de la Casa
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Re:Shorter Game Ideas for Discussion
mlvanbie (#27487),

Your idea sounds very good to me!! laugh

Every house, but maybe Baratheon, has three Cities/Strongholds which can be considered "theirs". For instance, Greyjoy has Pyke, Flint's Finger and Seagard and so on... I think a balanced approach is possible, even perhaps eliminating the bothering Greyjoy/Lannister issue. How about Baratheon? Maybe Dragonstone, Crackclaw and King's landing? How about Sunspear and Eyrie? ???
 
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Re:Shorter Game Ideas for Discussion
If you're smart, you won't let any of your more ambivalent friends get in the position of Lannister... that might sour their enthusiasm a bit.
 
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