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Too Many Bones» Forums » Rules

Subject: Atk Dice combined with Backup Plan: One attack? rss

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Picket wants to attack a Baddie with Lashback, the Baddie has 3 HP:

Picket rolls 1 Dmg (Atk Die) and wants to use Shield Bash (2 Dmg) from his Backup Plan, too.

Is this considered to be one attack? That would knock the Baddie out, no Lashback would be triggered.

Or are this two seperate attacks, which means the Baddie will give 1 Dmg to Picket?
 
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Brian Baker
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Only Atk dice are considered attacks. Skills and Backup Plans can do Dmg but are not classified as "attacks" -- so they wouldn't trigger Lashback even if it is the only Dmg applied that turn.
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Tristan Brunet
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Sure... But Lashback doesn't trigger on "attacks". The reference sheet says "if hit by an adjacent opposing unit...".
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Marc Kaiser
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I guess the question is if the dmg is applied right after the attack or at the end.

p. 20 of the rulebook answers your question (I had to look it up too):
using the backup plan is part of "resolve the roll" and only after this step the baddie reactions (e.g. like lashback) get applied if applicable. In your case the baddie would go down, i.e. no lashback dmg.
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Bård Holst
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Barandum wrote:
I guess the question is if the dmg is applied right after the attack or at the end.

p. 20 of the rulebook answers your question (I had to look it up too):
using the backup plan is part of "resolve the roll" and only after this step the baddie reactions (e.g. like lashback) get applied if applicable. In your case the baddie would go down, i.e. no lashback dmg.


I tend to agree on this but then Lashback says that it happens immediately though?

Does this still mean that it happens after the Gearloc resolves all its dice?
 
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Marc Kaiser
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check page 20 in the rule book; point 7 "Baddies React: ... skills that kick in after they are attacked.

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Ben Turner
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So - with Lashback - does an attack + a shield bash trigger it ONCE or TWICE?
 
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Greg Kleinfall
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Phantomwhale wrote:
So - with Lashback - does an attack + a shield bash trigger it ONCE or TWICE?


See "Getting Technical" on page 26 of the rulebook. Under Attacking:..., it says "Attacking is the act of rolling Atk Dice (white) on a target." I don't believe a backup plan (or skill) is considered an attack even if it does damage. I believe Adam's video on Picket supports this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHq-NqJkwGg&t=3s

Lashback would only be triggered once, if it is triggered at all.

Example:

1) Apply attack dice damage - receive lashback from baddie
2) Use only backup plan (i.e. shield bash) to damage baddie - No lashback occurs.
3) Apply attack dice AND use backup plan - Baddie does lashback.

If the baddie doesn't survive after you have completed "resolving the roll" (page 20), which includes applying a backup plan, then no lashback occurs.
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The Lashback skill says "If hit ..." and not " If attacked...".

A Shield Bash hits the opponent in my oppinion, as Throwing Odds etc. will do, too.
So I think in all of your examples Lashback will happen.

The question is: Is an Atk Die and a Shield Bash one hit or are these two hits?
If these are two hits and Lashback takes plays "immediately" as stated on the reference sheet, I think it could be triggered twice, if the Baddies is still alive.
 
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Brian Baker
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Barandum wrote:
check page 20 in the rule book; point 7 "Baddies React: ... skills that kick in after they are attacked.



I think I would play it like that as well. Resolving the rolled dice, loot, and backup plan happens simultaneously. Then the next step would be to trigger the baddie skill of lashback. In this case, the direwolf is dead so it is not triggered. But if it had HP left I would just trigger it once.
 
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Mark D
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IMO and experience from this and playing the Hoplo series and per pg 20 reference regarding,

Resolving the Roll; You can do the following in no particular order:

Resolve Target Dmg & Effects; Resolve Non-Target Dmg and Effects; Allocate Active, Locked, and Backup Plan Dice; Use your Backup Plan.

Even though Shield Bash literally sounds like you're hitting something, you're actually just exhausting all def dice to do damage to the target. I do not believe that will result in a Lashback.

What you should do is 1st do the Shield Bash for 2 dmg avoiding the lashback, then apply your atk die which would results in Lashback but it won't happen since the baddie is at 0 HP's.

Lashback probably should have been worded " If attacked by an adjacent opposing unit etc...
 
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In my oppinion, Atk Dice and other actions (e.g. Lash Back or Boomers Throwing Odds) can be considered as one collective hit.

But I think using only Lash Back, Throwing Odds etc. will also trigger Lashback if Picket / Boomer are adjacent.

But honestly I don't have any Hoplo experience, so maybe I'm mistaken.
 
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Adam Carlson
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Attacking is literally just rolling the Atk Dice. Each Gearloc has just one opportunity to 'attack' per turn. Skills don't qualify as attacks, including ones that deal Dmg. Backup Plans are a form of Skill.
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Thanks for clarification, Adam.
My initial question was inaccurate, sorry.

The question is:
Is Dmg done by Backup Plan Skills combined with Atk Dmg one hit ore are these two hits?

Two additional question came up for me during this discussion:
Is Dmg done by Skills considered a hit at all?
Does Lashback occur if Baddie receives any kind of hit or only if attacked?
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Michael Becker
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Good question, and also not 100% sorted by the official post.

Also important for Baddie skills like Though Skin and Hardy.
 
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CycyX
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Magny en Vexin
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It has been officially ruled elsewhere: a "hit" is a damage done by an attack die. Period.

You do not combine damages in a single "hit", damages done by Skills are not "hits".

So Lashback won't strike if the Baddie is damaged by Skill or BP.
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Paul Smith
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Dewdundency wrote:
Attacking is literally just rolling the Atk Dice. Each Gearloc has just one opportunity to 'attack' per turn. Skills don't qualify as attacks, including ones that deal Dmg. Backup Plans are a form of Skill.


Isn't this contradicted in your video here? https://youtu.be/mQRjn2PyNDA?t=12m24s

Here Tantrum uses only 2 skill dice and no Atk Dice, but you describe it as an attack and increase his rage die accordingly. Was this a mistake or is Tantrum's reference sheet wrong? (It says 'Each time Tantrum makes an attack (once per turn) he must increase his Active Rage Die by 0.2')
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Adam Carlson
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Backup plan is not a hit.

Someone pointed out my mistake on the Tantrum video, and I commented to confirm. I should not have upticked my Rage Die at that time!
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Paul Smith
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Ah phew, thanks!
 
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