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Moose Detective
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My Level 3 Spellweaver, and my gf's Level 2 Cragheart. Scenario Level 2 means the Bear and Golem are both level 4. We've noticed that we specialize in multiple low-hp targets whereas our original Brute/Scoundrel combo usually prefered one big HP target. We have no pierce ability so Shield can be crazy for us.

Going into the mission we knew all 4 enemies we would be facing. I saw from the setup the there'd be multiple drakes, and that the golem would be powered up like the bear, but I didn't look at the specifics.

Starting out, we didn't want to push the bear into the traps because we knew the golem would have Shield. I wanted to wound him early but never had a chance to get next to it safely. We immobilized the bear a few times and somehow managed to burn through his 21 HP only taking one attack. That went better than expected.

Unfotuntely, I short rested as we dropped the bear, and my lost card was Frost Armor which can prevent two instances of damage. I stupidly risked losing a different card, and while I didn't auto-lose the scenario by losing my card recovery, I did lose my Fire Orbs triple-attack which I wanted to use on the drakes. Ugh.

We really had to over-talk through the drakes. They move fast, hit hard, give wounds and have lots of poison ability cards. The Cragheart smashed one into a pillar and killed it dead, but even with that happening, we had really bad pull on the Spitting Drake cards which led to me using my Invisibility Cloak on the first instance of double-target attack but not having a way to avoid it on their final round. Since the Cragheart is so slow, they got off an extra round of attacks before he could kill them, and we both started the Golem battle poisoned and damaged.

The final phase is insane. The Cragheart took trap damage from being in the middle. Then two damage every round on top of the the Golem's 6 attack (and 2 more to any one adjacent to his target) means you have to drop him fast, but he has SHIELD 3 and 17 HP. The ranged attack cancels his slow movement weakness and doesn't get him into range for my melee Wound item and he will never need to move at all.

Golem did one damage to himself and while mostly focusing on healing to get ourselves a few more turns we managed to get 1 more point of damage through to bring the total to a whopping 2 damage. Then it happened. Cragheart uses Heaving Swing and attacks for 3 with Push1 and a Power Potion and flips Push2+, Push2+,+1 from the modifier deck. Which pushes the Golem back, into one of the pillars for +2 damage and into the trap for +3 damage for 7 damage total bringing the running total to 9 and leaving the Golem next to the other trap. Next turn I stun the golem as the Cragheart pushes him into the second trap bringing him to 12. In addition the Cragheart made more rocks.

Last turn for me, I finally walked in for a melee attack to put a wound on the Golem, and pulled my 2x to get one more point of damage through. 13. Then I succumb to the every turn damage and drop. Cragheart moves to the Golem's other side and gives a point of damage adjacent for 14, then pushes the Golem into the rocks for 2 more damage. 16. The Cragheart takes 2 damage leaving him with one. The golem wins up for the killing blow, but takes 1 point off damage from his wound and falls.

But wait, you say, traps at Scenario Levl 2 do 4 damage not 3 so you actually had it in the bag even without the wound and 2x flip from the Spellweaver.

Except...

When we leveled up the Cragheart we realized that due to previous checkmark confusion from some of the scenarios granting checkmarks, the Cragheart had one extra perk he shouldn't have had yet. Which was the only thing that allowed the miraculous PUSH card to happen in the first place.

Well, screw that, that was too epic and too hard to do again, and that perk could have been taken instead of one of the others, so its standing. BUT...

In what way would this have been winnable for these two characters without that push or some incredibly timely 2x cards? Or possibly any two characters. I bet even the Scoundrel would have a problem setting up her big attack on this thing. The trap damage when the golem spawns is a nasty surprise and the constant 2 damage makes it almost immpossible to heal through while also doing damage. If you carried over poison from the drakes it makes the healing even more difficult. Shield3 makes it super hard for level 2 and 3 characters to reliably get anything through.

How have other people gotten through this? We theoretically got through it with the Push perk but it just seems like we got INCREDIBLY lucky.

Comments?
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Jeff M
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There have been critiques on the forum about how easy the game is..and comments on how hard.

Which is it?
 
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Steve Z
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Both ^^

I found out that on the US Side its more to hard
and on the EU side its more to easy

I would say US Guys should use dice hahaha

Just joking
 
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Lowden025 wrote:
There have been critiques on the forum about how easy the game is..and comments on how hard.

Which is it?


You understand there are over 100 scenarios and that difficulty level can vary depending on scenario, characters being used, possibly player count, and the luck of the cards plus road event effects in the base game? So it is possible for some scenarios to be "too easy" and some to be "too hard".

Then throw in the incredbly steep learning curve and the common error of using the wrong deck of modifier cards that can make first impresison reviews vary even wilder than that.

Personally, even though we won the first scenario, we went just 3-2 in our first five plays. I blamed one of those on the luck of monster ability cards and another on scenario difficulty/mistakes were made. I thought many people would say the game was hard and leveling was slow. Now 30 plays in we're 26-4 and had won 15 in a row before this "questionable" win. So I don't think the game is difficult, I think it has a rough learning curve early on, and I'm wondering about THIS SPECIFIC SCENARIO.

I think another issue with your question is what success rate players want. Some people think co-ops should only be won 25% of the time, others 50%, others 75%. Because of the campaign nature of Gloomhaven and the length of playtime, I don't think Gloomhaven should be treated the same as 60 minute one-off co-op. I think the success rate SHOULD be pretty high. That doesn't necessarily make it easy.

Also, a lot of people are playing solo with the suggested "penalty" of playing one level higher than a group would play. That increases the difficulty quite a bit compared to the minor benefit of perfect player information (since most groups talk somewhat anyway and learn each others cards.)

Or it could be that Europeans are smarter than Americans like the other response. But we all know all the smart Europeans already came to America so my more detailed answer is probably correct.
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Jason Wallace
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Different play styles, skill levels, and character builds will lead to different experiences with the same scenario.


I haven't played the scenario yet, but it does look like a real challenge. Even a regular cave bear is no joke.

In the example given by the original post, the character team is described as good at dealing with many low hit point monsters. There are trade-offs when you develop each character, so this team is certainly going to have a tougher time against high hit-point boss type monsters. Well done to find a way to win!

By contrast, it is possible for an aggressive scoundrel character to kill the Witch Bear in a single hit by burning a few cards early. Of course, then there might be some problems handling the other monsters.

I think what makes the game interesting is not that it is easy or hard. What is interesting to me is that we can't predict when a new scenario begins exactly how it will play out, yet the eventual outcome still feels like it is based on our choices.





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Stu Heath
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I Actually found this easier than some of the previous scenarios, its the first I didn't have to retry for a while - Luckily my scoundrel managed to go invisible then pull off a 22 damage hit on the bear (I'm playing solo so I set bear at level 5) this made finishing him off easy for the Mindthief. Also I managed to draw a x2 mod when fighting the Rocket Golem plus both Scoundrel and MT had ignore scenario effects as perks. It just depends on the luck of the draw , it would have been oh so different if I had drawn a Null at any of these times instead.
 
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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stevelabny wrote:


How have other people gotten through this?

you could watch us on youtube how relatively easy we managed this fight, the bear and golem both attacked 0 times due to condition lock:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBpd6GZ-QxI

(bringing the right cards and bringing the right strategic choices is most important, choose your cards wisely which to bring to a scenario)
 
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Darkangeldown wrote:
I Actually found this easier than some of the previous scenarios, its the first I didn't have to retry for a while - Luckily my scoundrel managed to go invisible then pull off a 22 damage hit on the bear (I'm playing solo so I set bear at level 5) this made finishing him off easy for the Mindthief. Also I managed to draw a x2 mod when fighting the Rocket Golem plus both Scoundrel and MT had ignore scenario effects as perks. It just depends on the luck of the draw , it would have been oh so different if I had drawn a Null at any of these times instead.


What made you decide to pull off the Scoundrels big move early rather than save it? Just figured nothing could be as bad as the bear?

Also, both characters ignoring the extra 2 damage is huge as it gives you more actiong not healing and more turns to kill the golem you wouldn't have otherwise.
 
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Morthai wrote:

you could watch us on youtube how relatively easy we managed this fight, the bear and golem both attacked 0 times due to condition lock:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBpd6GZ-QxI

(bringing the right cards and bringing the right strategic choices is most important, choose your cards wisely which to bring to a scenario)


Do you think this scenario might be easier with 4 since there's no added monsters at all. For the most part the only difference is some extra hit points, but you're getting twice as many actions as a 2player which gives way more opporunity to stun/disarm/immmobilize/heal and more ways to split damage.
 
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Lochi Lochi
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stevelabny wrote:
Scenario Level 2 means the Bear and Golem are both level 4.


Why this? Scenario and monster level are always the same.
 
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Mathew G Somers
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For whatever it's worth, with two players, playing the Mindthief and Scoundrel, this scenario also seemed among the easiest of the Kickstarter Expedition scenarios for me as well, and a good part of that was related to "condition lock", as Morthai put it. Also, the Scoundrel was without her big attack, no invisibility was used, and both of the Mindthief's summons lasted from near beginning to end.
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Lochi wrote:
stevelabny wrote:
Scenario Level 2 means the Bear and Golem are both level 4.


Why this? Scenario and monster level are always the same.


Special rules of the scenario make them two levels higher than normal.
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Richard Sands
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I play Mindthief and Brute, and also found it a fairly easy scenario. I wasted the traps on the bear, which made the golem more dangerous than it should have been, but it was never going to attack us, with the Mindthief able to control lock a single monster on her own, and the Brute having a piercing attack.

I guess your characters were just a bad fit for the scenario...
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ciriquen wrote:

I guess your characters were just a bad fit for the scenario...


Which is good to hear. Other times we've had harder scenarios, we've decided that other classes would be able to handle things better but I really thought that golem's specials would be overwhelming for other 2 character configurations. Guess not.
 
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Tony Makos
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Miraculously we (Brute/Scoundrel) managed this scenario on our first attempt, but it was right down to the wire. The bear wasn't too bad, but we took far too long getting rid of the drakes and were struggling with cards in hand for the golem.

We found that the key to this one was judicious use of Stun and Disarm. But it was very, very close. It came down to the last card flip of the game - the Brute's final attack 2 on the Golem who had two health left, no cards in hand, 2 in discard pile, attack modifer deck draws....a Pierce 3 followed by a +1.

Gone. I wouldn't want to try it again - it was really tough.

 
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Bill L
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I am still playing on scenario level 1 (first time playing Gloomhaven), and I found this one to be surprisingly easy. I'm playing solo with a Scoundrel and Cragheart, and finally figured out how to capitalize on the Scoundrel's cards while fighting the stone golem. Knocked him out in two rounds. I guess quite a bit depends on which characters you're using.
 
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Justin DeSimone
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This one was pathetically easy with four characters for my friend and I. We were using the Scoundrel, Brute, Mindthief, and the Spellweaver. Mindthief disabled the bear and the Scoundrel/Spellweaver took down the bear in a couple rounds. Drakes posed little issue for us (only took two hits total). The Golem went down in a couple more rounds with more disables and a big 27 damage hit from the Scoundrel. Since these "boss" enemies weren't immune to conditions we felt like this scenario was really easy.

I did kind of feel like with only 2 this would've been really hard. The difference between the 2 player and 4 player versions isn't much beyond how much health the bear/golem have. I do think the scoundrel is an absolute necessity for the golem, she can kill it in two rounds with proper setup, maybe even one if it was just two players.

Weird scenario, and I kind of feel it was the second easiest we've done including the main campaign.
 
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Isaac Childres
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Yeah, it was actually supposed to be harder. When I was play testing it, I made the bear immune to Stun, Disarm and Immobilize and the golem immune to Stun and Disarm. But then I forgot to put those in the special rules when I was writing.
 
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Dave Brown
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Cephalofair wrote:
Yeah, it was actually supposed to be harder. When I was play testing it, I made the bear immune to Stun, Disarm and Immobilize and the golem immune to Stun and Disarm. But then I forgot to put those in the special rules when I was writing.


That explains it lol! The three of us (Brute, Spellweaver, Sun class) did it pretty comfortably - definitely one of the easiest of this mini-campaign. Bear never got an attack, don't think the golem did either. Would have been a lot tougher with the immunities ;-)
 
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Richard Sands
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Cephalofair wrote:
Yeah, it was actually supposed to be harder. When I was play testing it, I made the bear immune to Stun, Disarm and Immobilize and the golem immune to Stun and Disarm. But then I forgot to put those in the special rules when I was writing.


Although it was fairly easy for me as it was, if both solo monsters had been immune to stun and disarm, I'm not sure whether we'd have survived! The bear would have meant one extra discarded card, as it only would have got one attack, but if the golem had been hitting us in addition to the round by round damage...

Though perhaps the Mindthief would have been doing more damage if she hadn't been playing for the stuns - it's hard to say without playing it again, and I'd rather play scenario 8 later!
 
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Cephalofair wrote:
Yeah, it was actually supposed to be harder. When I was play testing it, I made the bear immune to Stun, Disarm and Immobilize and the golem immune to Stun and Disarm. But then I forgot to put those in the special rules when I was writing.


Yep - that would have done it. They would have completely wiped the floor with us.

Isaac, my wife and I would like to thank you wholeheartedly for Gloomhaven and this campaign, but in this particular instance we'd like to thank your unreliable memory
 
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Justin DeSimone
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Cephalofair wrote:
Yeah, it was actually supposed to be harder. When I was play testing it, I made the bear immune to Stun, Disarm and Immobilize and the golem immune to Stun and Disarm. But then I forgot to put those in the special rules when I was writing.


That would've made it way more difficult for sure. It's possible it might've gone too far in the other direction, but would've required a lot more rounds out of us. As it ended up we were able to use a lot of throwaways early because of how compact everything was, resulting in a really short scenario.

I will say even without that and how easy it turned out, I was sweating bullets every round because of how much damage every enemy did. If the golem ever got an attack in it would've been bad news.
 
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ManWithBirdLikeWing wrote:
For whatever it's worth, with two players, playing the Mindthief and Scoundrel, this scenario also seemed among the easiest of the Kickstarter Expedition scenarios for me as well, and a good part of that was related to "condition lock", as Morthai put it. Also, the Scoundrel was without her big attack, no invisibility was used, and both of the Mindthief's summons lasted from near beginning to end.


I had the same setup as you. I was the mindthief and I stun locked both the bear and the golem. We double trapped the bear since we thought and early advantage could help us keep cards for the later game. The drakes were the hardest part but the lvl 1 rat helped us through that and with the golem (it barely survived the drakes due to a little luck).
 
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Phil Pettifer
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Trying to solo this one I gave up. The drakes are the hardest part I think. Combined they have more hit points than my 2 characters (Cragheart and Spellweaver, both level 3) even after taking healing potions into account, do more damage per round on average, and also add negative conditions every round. And that's just one part of the scenario. I'm not sure how to overcome such obvious disadvantages. Any advice?
 
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PhilP wrote:
Trying to solo this one I gave up. The drakes are the hardest part I think. Combined they have more hit points than my 2 characters (Cragheart and Spellweaver, both level 3) even after taking healing potions into account, do more damage per round on average, and also add negative conditions every round. And that's just one part of the scenario. I'm not sure how to overcome such obvious disadvantages. Any advice?


With the same pair, the Cragheart took out one Rending Drake in the first round with the hit + obstacle smash and a good enough modifier card. My Spellweaver either used Frost Armor, or took two hits and discard one card to cancel one of them. I think it was Frost Armor, because next round I'm pretty sure I used Ice to stun them both, and moved away. I also know I wounded the Spitter but I don't remembe if that was an ability or an item. (Don't remember exactly how I got them next to each other. Either lucky initiative or an immobilize the round before.) The Cragheart was putting damage on the other Spitter. We stil got hosed by the Spitters drawing their huge AOE and then their double-target card. I used my Invisibility Cloak to dodge the AOE but we still both got poisioned before we were able to finish them off. The last round of Drakes was the Cragheart using his 1damage adjacent, move, 2damage adjacent with one or two attacks in that combo. It finished off all 3 of them. (But left the Cragheart in the middle of the arena for the Golem spawn damage.)

Edit add: I think with this pair, you need to drop at least one of the drakes quick, be prepared to throw out a card (or two?) to avoid high damage (especially if you got through the bear relatively unscathed) and the Spellweaver needs ways to dodge damage completely like Frost Armor or an Invisibility Cloak. Or both.


 
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