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Brass: Lancashire» Forums » General

Subject: Links in the new edition rss

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Palmer Eldritch
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I notice on the Kickstarter page that the reverse side of the tiles have a link symbol at the top right:



I assume this is for calculating how many points each player gets at the end of each era, but I'm wondering what's the point of having these symbols if every single tile has the same number of them (one)? There are no such symbols on the current tiles because you just count the number of flipped tiles either side of each link - and the new edition even cleverly incorporates a different colour scheme to help illustrate when a tile's been flipped - even more reason that the link symbol would seem to be redundant.

I see that there are variable numbers of these link symbols on some of the tiles in the Birmingham version, but I assume that the rules are different for that game. There is one of each tile type illustrated in the picture above, so I don't understand why the symbol is there. Am I missing something?
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Jeff Michaud
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in "Brass" the symbol in upper right on flipped side is a brass coin*** symbol... and on the map is a double brass coin symbol were the links go off the board... and yes, that is for scoring links at end of each era

looks like in this re-implementation of Brass they are using that new symbol you see on KS page

*** = and yes, it's a dual purpose in "Brass" as in the circle is how much to go up on income track at time of flipping
VinegarBob wrote:
I notice on the Kickstarter page that the reverse side of the tiles have a link symbol at the top right:



I assume this is for calculating how many points each player gets at the end of each era, but I'm wondering what's the point of having these symbols if every single tile has the same number of them (one)? There are no such symbols on the current tiles because you just count the number of flipped tiles either side of each link - and the new edition even cleverly incorporates a different colour scheme to help illustrate when a tile's been flipped - even more reason that the link symbol would seem to be redundant.

I see that there are variable numbers of these link symbols on some of the tiles in the Birmingham version, but I assume that the rules are different for that game. There is one of each tile type illustrated in the picture above, so I don't understand why the symbol is there. Am I missing something?
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Ron
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There are multiple link icons on the external locations on the map, so it makes sense to have them on the tiles for consistency.
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Palmer Eldritch
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JeffyJeff wrote:
in "Brass" the symbol in upper right on flipped side is a brass coin symbol... and on the map is a double brass coin symbol were the links go off the board... and yes, that is for scoring links at end of each era


The symbol on the upper right of the current Brass tiles are not an indication of anything to do with links. They are to indicate an immediate increase in income when the player flips the tile.
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Guillaume Gaudé
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There is only 1 hex link symbol on each flipped side.
2 hex link symbols appears on some external destinations on the map.
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Jeff Michaud
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VinegarBob wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
in "Brass" the symbol in upper right on flipped side is a brass coin symbol... and on the map is a double brass coin symbol were the links go off the board... and yes, that is for scoring links at end of each era
The symbol on the upper right of the current Brass tiles are not an indication of anything to do with links. They are to indicate an immediate increase in income when the player flips the tile.

they are both, i'll update my reply to make this clear
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Michael Cabral
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VinegarBob wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
in "Brass" the symbol in upper right on flipped side is a brass coin symbol... and on the map is a double brass coin symbol were the links go off the board... and yes, that is for scoring links at end of each era


The symbol on the upper right of the current Brass tiles are not an indication of anything to do with links. They are to indicate an immediate increase in income when the player flips the tile.


It is both. It is used to indicate the increase in income when flipped but also used to count the VP for the links between cities and foreign market locations. Each brass coin is counted as 1 VP.
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Jeff Michaud
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Cabralicus wrote:
VinegarBob wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
in "Brass" the symbol in upper right on flipped side is a brass coin symbol... and on the map is a double brass coin symbol were the links go off the board... and yes, that is for scoring links at end of each era
The symbol on the upper right of the current Brass tiles are not an indication of anything to do with links. They are to indicate an immediate increase in income when the player flips the tile.
It is both. It is used to indicate the increase in income when flipped but also used to count the VP for the links between cities and foreign market locations. Each brass coin is counted as 1 VP.

also fwiw in the "Brass" rules, page 5 under "Phase 3. Victory Points"...

"Each canal/rail link is worth a number of VPs equal to the number of gold circles in the two locations it connects"
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Palmer Eldritch
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JeffyJeff wrote:
also fwiw in the "Brass" rules, page 5 under "Phase 3. Victory Points"...

"Each canal/rail link is worth a number of VPs equal to the number of gold circles in the two locations it connects"


The number of gold circles? Interesting. So nothing to do with the number in the gold circle, just the number of gold circles - which is always one. The person teaching me that never taught me that way (thankfully). I can see why the current Brass rulebook has such a poor reputation.
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Jeff Michaud
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VinegarBob wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
also fwiw in the "Brass" rules, page 5 under "Phase 3. Victory Points"...

"Each canal/rail link is worth a number of VPs equal to the number of gold circles in the two locations it connects"
The number of gold circles? Interesting. So nothing to do with the number in the gold circle, just the number of gold circles - which is always one. The person teaching me that never taught me that way (thankfully). I can see why the current Brass rule book has such a poor reputation.

no, not always one... it's always one on the *flipped* side of industry counters... but as mentioned it's two (2) gold circles on the side of links going to foreign (off board) locations

As for the rules... I never found them to be a problem... however for those w/trouble with the "Brass" rules, see the files section for a rules rewrite which is not only more concise but relatively clearer
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Brian McCarty
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Note also that some industry tiles have 0 or 2 link icons in Brass: Birmingham. So it makes the tiles consistant between the two games.
(ETA -- I see you noticed this)
Not a major factor, but a nice touch IMHO.

Brian
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Palmer Eldritch
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JeffyJeff wrote:
no, not always one... it's always one on the *flipped* side of industry counters... but as mentioned it's two (2) gold circles on the side of links going to foreign (off board) locations

As for the rules... I never found them to be a problem... however for those w/trouble with the "Brass" rules, see the files section for a rules rewrite which is not only more concise but relatively clearer


Yes, but if the tile hasn't been flipped then it doesn't count.

I was aware that the distant market connections scored 2 points at the end of each era (I've played Brass many many times) but never made any connection that they were 'gold circles' the same as those on the reverse of the tiles. But come to mention it the points you get from links at the end of each era add to the player's victory point total, not their income, and victory points are denoted by pink hexagons on the reverse of the tiles not gold circles. So in fact I would imagine that the distant market being denoted by two gold circles for the purposes of scoring victory points would not be very helpful for learners. Quite the opposite, I would imagine.
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André Silveira
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I really, really like this new symbol. It's consistent between games (Birmingham), illustrates more easily the rules and helps a lot when teaching the game. For old gamers, you look at the map and at the chits and you infer it instantly.

Really like it.
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Jeff Michaud
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VinegarBob wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
no, not always one... it's always one on the *flipped* side of industry counters... but as mentioned it's two (2) gold circles on the side of links going to foreign (off board) locations

As for the rules... I never found them to be a problem... however for those w/trouble with the "Brass" rules, see the files section for a rules rewrite which is not only more concise but relatively clearer
Yes, but if the tile hasn't been flipped then it doesn't count.

exactly the point why *only* the flipped side has the brass coin symbol... rules are easy... don't need to worry about figuring flipped from un-flipped just count number of coin symbols on both sides of link

maybe it just seems easy to me since I've been playing (and owning) "Brass" for ~ 10 years (and owned my copy 9 years... yikes, checking my records say I paid $52 for it! This KS version is actually cheaper than that!!) and/or it was the way I was taught. You can't just tell folks to count the number of flipped tiles/counters as there are none on links connecting to external locations
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Palmer Eldritch
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JeffyJeff wrote:
exactly the point why *only* the flipped side has the brass coin symbol... rules are easy... don't need to worry about figuring flipped from un-flipped just count number of coin symbols on both sides of link

maybe it just seems easy to me since I've been playing (and owning) "Brass" for ~ 10 year...


It's interesting how different people parse information differently, and how different people explain things differently. Fascinating really.

I never learned the game from reading the rules, but rather from someone who knew how to play. Looking at the original Brass rules now the way of explaining this concept seems very clunky and unintuitive to me. But again I've been playing it for years and it was explained to me in a very different way - a way that made sense to me.

Still, Roxley seem to have nicely sidestepped all of this by having the top half of flipped tiles black so it's easy to tell the flipped tiles from the un-flipped ones, which is quite handy for someone like me who tots everything up by quickly eyeballing how many flipped tiles there are. This of course will always leave the question of connections to the edge of the board - which was explained to me as an exception - not usually a good thing to have in rules explanations. Anyway. having it be consistent with the Birmingham game must be more important to Roxley than I thought, and the people who just count flipped tiles can ignore it when playing the Lancashire version so it's all good.
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Chris
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N9IWP wrote:
Note also that some industry tiles have 0 or 2 link icons in Brass: Birmingham. So it makes the tiles consistent between the two games.
(ETA -- I see you noticed this)
Not a major factor, but a nice touch IMHO.

Brian

it's naturally good to be consistent, but they're only being consistent with the extra bloat they've layered on top of Brum. God knows why they couldn't just leave these trivially simple things alone instead of having to find more goalposts to move and change for the sake of their daft new additions.
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Gavan Brown
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The new system simply allows you to explain scoring rails much easier.

"counting the gold circles" in the old one can be confusing since there are values in the gold circles. Counting gold circles as VPs is not logical UI design, since VPs are represented in Brass by hexagons.

Chris: We've changed it because it's more usable and easier to understand. We don't consider improving the UI of a game to be "trivial", we consider it to be imperative. I'm trying to figure out how someone could be offended by us improving the UI. laugh
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