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Grand Admiral Thrawn
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This is just interesting and creepy.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2017/04/beavert...

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/man-fined-dollar5...

"An electronics engineer says he found a flaw in traffic lights. The Oregon engineering board fined him for it.

In September 2014, Mats Järlström, an electronics engineer living in Beaverton, Oregon, sent an email to the state's engineering board. The email claimed that yellow traffic lights don't last long enough, which "puts the public at risk."

"I would like to present these facts for your review and comments," he wrote.

This email resulted not with a meeting, but with a threat. The Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying responded with this dystopian message:

"ORS 672.020(1) prohibits the practice of engineering in Oregon without registration … at a minimum, your use of the title 'electronics engineer' and the statement 'I'm an engineer' … create violations."

In January of this year, Järlström was officially fined $500 by the state for the crime of "practicing engineering without being registered.""
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Jordan Ackerman
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We need the blinking green light to signal the yellow is about the appear, like they have in Canada.

That would fix the issue with the lights.

Now as far as what to do with the pesky, unregistered engineer, I say we hire him in our government at the same position as the person who decided to fine him, fire the person who decided to fine him and tie that person down on top of a mound of fire ants for no less than 24 hours.

Okay, maybe not that last part, but definitely fire them and hire Mats Jarlstrom instead.
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Steve
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If Oregon is like most states then its counties, towns, and cities derive a lot of their revenue from traffic tickets.

Making the yellow light longer would reduce revenue. Hence they will not be lengthened, even if 10 people a year die in accidents caused by the short yellow lights. Unless 1 of them is the daughter of a state Senator.

IMHO.
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David Dearlove
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Steve1501 wrote:
If Oregon is like most states then its counties, towns, and cities derive a lot of their revenue from traffic tickets.

Making the yellow light longer would reduce revenue. Hence they will not be lengthened, even if 10 people a year die in accidents caused by the short yellow lights. Unless 1 of them is the daughter of a state Senator.

IMHO.

This law is ridiculous. They seem to thnk an engineer is some kind of land surveyor. I think the lay was written to stop people describing themselves as civil engineers in building.
This looks like someone getting revenge using archaic laws. I wonder how many electronics engineers in Oregon meet their criterea which are defined using circular links on their website.
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J.D. Hall
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einsteinidahosu wrote:
In September 2014, Mats Järlström, an electronics engineer living in Beaverton, Oregon, sent an email to the state's engineering board. The email claimed that yellow traffic lights don't last long enough, which "puts the public at risk.

Damn Swedes, riding their bikes after midnight and checking out street lights. MANFA!!!*

*--Make America Nordic Free Again
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Walt
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rutherford82 wrote:
We need the blinking green light to signal the yellow is about the appear, like they have in Canada.

That would fix the issue with the lights.

No such issue exists in California (since I notice that's where you're from). Yellow lights have to be a certain duration in CA depending on the speed of the road*, and if you enter an intersection on yellow and the light turns red while you're in the intersection it's...totally legal.

*http://www.laweekly.com/news/yay-longer-yellow-traffic-light...

The yellow light is the warning. So, don't slam on your brakes when the signal goes yellow. (This is not the case in other jurisdictions, but I think it's common in the US.)

Just so you know, "[CA VC] 365. An "intersection" is the area embraced within the prolongations of the lateral curb lines, or, if none, then the lateral boundary lines of the roadways, of two highways which join one another at approximately right angles or the area within which vehicles traveling upon different highways joining at any other angle may come in conflict." So, it does not include the limit line, pedestrian crossings, etc. (A lot of people get this wrong.) It's only the "conflict area" of the roads. The I tile area, below.
blank
blankIblank
blank


However, you can't enter an intersection without expecting to exit it before the light goes red. The "Do not block intersection" signs are meaningless because you're never allowed to block an intersection (barring some emergency I can't think of a scenario for--well, if you needed to enter the intersection to prevent someone from rear-ending you, that might qualify).

Oddly, if you're walking and come on one of those count down crosswalk signs, it doesn't matter if you can make it in time. As soon as it starts counting (or more commonly blinking) it's illegal to step off the curb. Weird.

IANAL.
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Damian
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DavidDearlove wrote:
Steve1501 wrote:
If Oregon is like most states then its counties, towns, and cities derive a lot of their revenue from traffic tickets.

Making the yellow light longer would reduce revenue. Hence they will not be lengthened, even if 10 people a year die in accidents caused by the short yellow lights. Unless 1 of them is the daughter of a state Senator.

IMHO.

This law is ridiculous. They seem to thnk an engineer is some kind of land surveyor. I think the lay was written to stop people describing themselves as civil engineers in building.
This looks like someone getting revenge using archaic laws. I wonder how many electronics engineers in Oregon meet their criterea which are defined using circular links on their website.

What's bizarre is that they only allow PEs to call themselves "engineers". Becoming a PE is an extra, optional, step. Depending on how and where you plan to work you don't necessarily need to go through that step. It requires you to carry professional insurance and allows you sign off on things that could open you to liability (my father in law is a PE who retired from CalTrans, he signed off on bridges and stuff). We used to have a PE in our facility when we had three engineers, but now we only have one and she's not a PE. Any changes requiring signoff go through a centralized group.
 
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David Dearlove
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damiangerous wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Steve1501 wrote:
If Oregon is like most states then its counties, towns, and cities derive a lot of their revenue from traffic tickets.

Making the yellow light longer would reduce revenue. Hence they will not be lengthened, even if 10 people a year die in accidents caused by the short yellow lights. Unless 1 of them is the daughter of a state Senator.

IMHO.

This law is ridiculous. They seem to thnk an engineer is some kind of land surveyor. I think the lay was written to stop people describing themselves as civil engineers in building.
This looks like someone getting revenge using archaic laws. I wonder how many electronics engineers in Oregon meet their criterea which are defined using circular links on their website.

What's bizarre is that they only allow PEs to call themselves "engineers". Becoming a PE is an extra, optional, step. Depending on how and where you plan to work you don't necessarily need to go through that step. It requires you to carry professional insurance and allows you sign off on things that could open you to liability (my father in law is a PE who retired from CalTrans, he signed off on bridges and stuff). We used to have a PE in our facility when we had three engineers, but now we only have one and she's not a PE. Any changes requiring signoff go through a centralized group.

Yes, whoever wrote this law was got at by structural engineers, who are a small subset of civil engineers. I am not an Engineer by this definition. Why is this the business of the state. I bet they let any moron with a spanner call themselves a plumber.
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Lynette
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damiangerous wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Steve1501 wrote:
If Oregon is like most states then its counties, towns, and cities derive a lot of their revenue from traffic tickets.

Making the yellow light longer would reduce revenue. Hence they will not be lengthened, even if 10 people a year die in accidents caused by the short yellow lights. Unless 1 of them is the daughter of a state Senator.

IMHO.

This law is ridiculous. They seem to thnk an engineer is some kind of land surveyor. I think the lay was written to stop people describing themselves as civil engineers in building.
This looks like someone getting revenge using archaic laws. I wonder how many electronics engineers in Oregon meet their criterea which are defined using circular links on their website.

What's bizarre is that they only allow PEs to call themselves "engineers". Becoming a PE is an extra, optional, step. Depending on how and where you plan to work you don't necessarily need to go through that step. It requires you to carry professional insurance and allows you sign off on things that could open you to liability (my father in law is a PE who retired from CalTrans, he signed off on bridges and stuff). We used to have a PE in our facility when we had three engineers, but now we only have one and she's not a PE. Any changes requiring signoff go through a centralized group.


Even more circularly, to become a PE you must be working as an engineer in your field for a minimum of five years before you are even allowed to take the test.
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Agent J
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They are conflating a definition of a word with a legal definition of a word, on purpose, in order to fine this guy for doing a bunch of work for them.

It's such an obvious case of ignoring and covering up that they should all be fired. I don't want this guy to be on the council or whatever though, because he's doing a great job being a watchdog off the council. And in fact, the council should have to pay him for doing the study. A response of 'Oh you've found a problem, we should reward you for that' rather than 'Oh you've found a problem, let's punish him so we can keep collecting on bad tickets' would have been appropriate.
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Mike Waleke
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DavidDearlove wrote:

Yes, whoever wrote this law was got at by structural engineers, who are a small subset of civil engineers. I am not an Engineer by this definition. Why is this the business of the state. I bet they let any moron with a spanner call themselves a plumber.


No, Oregon requires certification for almost all trades-persons, including plumbers.
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David Dearlove
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madmanw wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:

Yes, whoever wrote this law was got at by structural engineers, who are a small subset of civil engineers. I am not an Engineer by this definition. Why is this the business of the state. I bet they let any moron with a spanner call themselves a plumber.


No, Oregon requires certification for almost all trades-persons, including plumbers.

What about politicians?
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Mike Waleke
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DavidDearlove wrote:
madmanw wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:

Yes, whoever wrote this law was got at by structural engineers, who are a small subset of civil engineers. I am not an Engineer by this definition. Why is this the business of the state. I bet they let any moron with a spanner call themselves a plumber.


No, Oregon requires certification for almost all trades-persons, including plumbers.

What about politicians?


Hmm, It looks like you have to register with the state, but unlike the others it apparently does not require any sort of test.
 
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Junior McSpiffy
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DavidDearlove wrote:
Why is this the business of the state.


Why is this not the business of the state? Everything is the business of the state.

At least, that's the moral of the story as I hear it in here.
 
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Pontifex Maximus
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Tall_Walt wrote:
rutherford82 wrote:
We need the blinking green light to signal the yellow is about the appear, like they have in Canada.

That would fix the issue with the lights.

No such issue exists in California (since I notice that's where you're from). Yellow lights have to be a certain duration in CA depending on the speed of the road*, and if you enter an intersection on yellow and the light turns red while you're in the intersection it's...totally legal.

*http://www.laweekly.com/news/yay-longer-yellow-traffic-light...

The yellow light is the warning. So, don't slam on your brakes when the signal goes yellow. (This is not the case in other jurisdictions, but I think it's common in the US.)

Just so you know, "[CA VC] 365. An "intersection" is the area embraced within the prolongations of the lateral curb lines, or, if none, then the lateral boundary lines of the roadways, of two highways which join one another at approximately right angles or the area within which vehicles traveling upon different highways joining at any other angle may come in conflict." So, it does not include the limit line, pedestrian crossings, etc. (A lot of people get this wrong.) It's only the "conflict area" of the roads. The I tile area, below.
blank
blankIblank
blank


However, you can't enter an intersection without expecting to exit it before the light goes red. The "Do not block intersection" signs are meaningless because you're never allowed to block an intersection (barring some emergency I can't think of a scenario for--well, if you needed to enter the intersection to prevent someone from rear-ending you, that might qualify).

Oddly, if you're walking and come on one of those count down crosswalk signs, it doesn't matter if you can make it in time. As soon as it starts counting (or more commonly blinking) it's illegal to step off the curb. Weird.

IANAL.


Actually out in California a city was discovered to have yellow lights shorted than required and it cost them 400$K in fines they could not collect and admin costs. Strangely enough found by an engineer who had received a ticket

http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2005/09/24/badly-timed-traffic-s...

I wonder if the same could happen in OR.
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Mac Mcleod
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Oregon Man Fined For Writing 'I Am An Engineer' Temporarily Wins Right To Call Himself An 'Engineer'

https://yro.slashdot.org/story/17/06/01/0016215/oregon-man-f...

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/oregon-man-fined-...

Quote:
An electrical engineer fined by the Oregon engineering board for calling himself an "engineer" and talking about traffic lights has been granted the temporary right by a judge to both publicly call himself an "engineer" and to talk about traffic lights.

I didn't think I'd ever write that sentence in America, but the tale of Mats Järlström is a strange one. As I reported last month, Järlström has spent much of the last few years on something of a vision quest to present new ideas about the ideal timing of yellow traffic lights after his wife was caught running a red light by a traffic camera.

His calculations—which he shared with local police, as well as the Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying—suggest that at certain intersections, yellow lights don't last long enough, prompting a 60 Minutes investigation as well as a speaking gig at the Institute of Transportation Engineers's annual conference.

Rather than investigating those claims, however, the Oregon engineering board asked Järlström to stop calling himself an engineer, and in January fined him $500 for the crime of "practicing engineering without being registered."

Last month, Järlström sued the engineering board for violating his First Amendment rights, and Tuesday a federal judge gave Järlström the temporary right to call himself an engineer, pending the results of his case.

"Plaintiff Järlström may study, communicate publicly about, and communicate privately his theories relating to traffic lights throughout the pendency of this litigation as long as [his] communications occur outside the context of a paid employment or contractual relationship," Anna Brown, a federal district court judge for the district of Oregon, ordered. He "may describe himself publicly and privately using the word 'engineer' throughout the pendency of this litigation."

...
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