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Subject: Combat against a keep.... + some more doubts has they come rss

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Joao Mendonca
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Hello all,

So i decided to venture solo in mage knight solo first reconnaissance scenario. I read the rulebook watched Ricky royal and I'm watching it again has I play but has you all experienced mage knights know... some doubts came up:

1) so I decided to assault a keep AT NIGHT without even knowing who was guarding it ( smart hein? ). So I flipped a crossbowmen (swift) and I have some foresters available with me. I have no siege damage so combat goes to the block phase.
Can I activate block 3 of the foresters +1 more card sideways for block 1 and use the foresters armor to absorb the remaining 4 thus only giving a wound to them?

In another way:

If I don't want (can't) to use the block 3 ability and only block with their armor (4). That means they will get a wound and then I absorb 2 more with my armor (I'm lvl 2) and get a wound absorbing the remaining 2. Thus only me getting 1 wound and my unit 1 wound also. Is this also correct???

Ty
 
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Einmal ist keinmal
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You must either block all of the attack or none of it. In this case, you don't have enough block, so you must assign damage.

Do not conflate blocking with assigning damage. If you're using the armor value of your units, then you aren't blocking--you're assigning damage. The armor value determines how much of the enemy's attack is reduced.
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Ben Kyo
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In your example the crossbowmen have an effective attack of 8 (swiftness), but if you fail to block them they only do 4 damage.

So, assuming you can't produce 8 block, blocking fails, you proceed to assigning damage, and assign the damage to the foresters. The foresters have 4 armor, so they take all the damage and are wounded. Alternatively you assign the damage to yourself and take 2 Wounds.
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Vadim Golembo
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Mage Knight Blocking is all-or-nothing.
Star Trek Frontiers Blocking is block-some / take-some.

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Joao Mendonca
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Benkyo wrote:
In your example the crossbowmen have an effective attack of 8 (swiftness), but if you fail to block them they only do 4 damage.

So, assuming you can't produce 8 block, blocking fails, you proceed to assigning damage, and assign the damage to the foresters. The foresters have 4 armor, so they take all the damage and are wounded. Alternatively you assign the damage to yourself and take 2 Wounds.


So your telling me that the foresters ( or any unit ) can absorb the entire damage and if then damage surpasses their armor they take a wound if the damage doesn't pass the armor they effectively block it?

Assigning the damage to myself with no block only gives me 2 wounds? 8 point of damage should give me 3 wounds with 2 armor or my math is wrong here!

Ty all for the tip about blocking being all or nothing I forgot about it!
 
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Ben Kyo
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Jhonyb wrote:
Benkyo wrote:
In your example the crossbowmen have an effective attack of 8 (swiftness), but if you fail to block them they only do 4 damage.

So, assuming you can't produce 8 block, blocking fails, you proceed to assigning damage, and assign the damage to the foresters. The foresters have 4 armor, so they take all the damage and are wounded. Alternatively you assign the damage to yourself and take 2 Wounds.


So your telling me that the foresters ( or any unit ) can absorb the entire damage and if then damage surpasses their armor they take a wound if the damage doesn't pass the armor they effectively block it?

Assigning the damage to myself with no block only gives me 2 wounds? 8 point of damage should give me 3 wounds with 2 armor or my math is wrong here!

Ty all for the tip about blocking being all or nothing I forgot about it!


No, you are missing the point that although swiftness doubles the attack for the purpose of blocking, it does not double the attack when you assign damage. You only have 4 damage to assign. 1 Wound to foresters or 2 Wounds to you.

Only units with resistance can absorb their armor value of a damage type they are resistant to without taking a Wound (so Guardian Golems, for example, can absorb up to 3 physical damage without a Wound, or take a Wound from 4-6 physical damage).
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Joao Mendonca
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Benkyo wrote:
Jhonyb wrote:
Benkyo wrote:
In your example the crossbowmen have an effective attack of 8 (swiftness), but if you fail to block them they only do 4 damage.

So, assuming you can't produce 8 block, blocking fails, you proceed to assigning damage, and assign the damage to the foresters. The foresters have 4 armor, so they take all the damage and are wounded. Alternatively you assign the damage to yourself and take 2 Wounds.


So your telling me that the foresters ( or any unit ) can absorb the entire damage and if then damage surpasses their armor they take a wound if the damage doesn't pass the armor they effectively block it?

Assigning the damage to myself with no block only gives me 2 wounds? 8 point of damage should give me 3 wounds with 2 armor or my math is wrong here!

Ty all for the tip about blocking being all or nothing I forgot about it!


No, you are missing the point that although swiftness doubles the attack for the purpose of blocking, it does not double the attack when you assign damage. You only have 4 damage to assign. 1 Wound to foresters or 2 Wounds to you.

Only units with resistance can absorb their armor value of a damage type they are resistant to without taking a Wound (so Guardian Golems, for example, can absorb up to 3 physical damage without a Wound, or take a Wound from 4-6 physical damage).


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! You are totally right! I was assuming the unit was giving me also 8 points of dmg!


Let me just put an hypothetical question or in this case two:

1) If the crossbowmen dealt 5 points of dmg, Foresters with armor 4 would block and get 1 wound. And the other point of dmg would be block by my armor?

2) Same situation but with 7 points of dmg, Foresters take 4 (take a wound) i block 2 with my armor and take 1 wound ? Or all the dmg "stays in the Foresters) ?

ty again
 
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Ben Kyo
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Jhonyb wrote:
Let me just put an hypothetical question or in this case two:

1) If the crossbowmen dealt 5 points of dmg, Foresters with armor 4 would block and get 1 wound. And the other point of dmg would be block by my armor?

2) Same situation but with 7 points of dmg, Foresters take 4 (take a wound) i block 2 with my armor and take 1 wound ? Or all the dmg "stays in the Foresters) ?

ty again


1) Wound Foresters, leftover point Wounds you.
2) Wound Foresters, 3 leftover damage means 2 Wounds to you.

Expanding on 2 a little:
What you do is assign damage, deal a Wound, subtract armor (e.g. 7-4 = 3). Then assign damage, deal a Wound, subtract armor (3-2 = 1). Deal a Wound, subtract armor (1-2 = -1(0)). No damage left, end.
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Gabriel Honore
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I'd suggest you re-read the rules about combat.
It goes in 4 phase :

1 - Range/Siege attack
2 - Block
3 - Assign damage
4 - Melee attack

You're still confused between 2 and 3.
They are totally distinct.
If you block and enemy, then you do not assign any damage from it.
There is no partial block.
If you fail to block, then you assign damage.

Assigning damage means taking wounds in all case unless relevant resistances are involved.
If you assign 1 damage to a unit or yourself with a fictional 99 armor, it gets a wound.
Then you subtract the armor from the attack, if still positive (more than 0), you keep assigning damage.
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Joao Mendonca
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Benkyo wrote:
Jhonyb wrote:
Let me just put an hypothetical question or in this case two:

1) If the crossbowmen dealt 5 points of dmg, Foresters with armor 4 would block and get 1 wound. And the other point of dmg would be block by my armor?

2) Same situation but with 7 points of dmg, Foresters take 4 (take a wound) i block 2 with my armor and take 1 wound ? Or all the dmg "stays in the Foresters) ?

ty again


1) Wound Foresters, leftover point Wounds you.
2) Wound Foresters, 3 leftover damage means 2 Wounds to you.

Expanding on 2 a little:
What you do is assign damage, deal a Wound, subtract armor (e.g. 7-4 = 3). Then assign damage, deal a Wound, subtract armor (3-2 = 1). Deal a Wound, subtract armor (1-2 = -1(0)). No damage left, end.


Ok i get why i get 1 wound on the 1st example, because you first assign damage and only after that you subtract armor!

thx

nomrefuse wrote:
I'd suggest you re-read the rules about combat.
It goes in 4 phase :

1 - Range/Siege attack
2 - Block
3 - Assign damage
4 - Melee attack

You're still confused between 2 and 3.
They are totally distinct.
If you block and enemy, then you do not assign any damage from it.
There is no partial block.
If you fail to block, then you assign damage.

Assigning damage means taking wounds in all case unless relevant resistances are involved.
If you assign 1 damage to a unit or yourself with a fictional 99 armor, it gets a wound.
Then you subtract the armor from the attack, if still positive (more than 0), you keep assigning damage.


I will re-read that part yes

ty
 
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Ali Cali
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Jhonyb wrote:
Let me just put an hypothetical question or in this case two:

1) If the crossbowmen dealt 5 points of dmg, Foresters with armor 4 would block and get 1 wound. And the other point of dmg would be block by my armor?

2) Same situation but with 7 points of dmg, Foresters take 4 (take a wound) i block 2 with my armor and take 1 wound ? Or all the dmg "stays in the Foresters) ?

ty again

I'm quoting this part, even though it was answered, because I want to clarify something.

Stop saying "block" when assigning damage. The armor never blocks. The armor absorbs damage, but still causes a wound (except possibly for resistances on units). Otherwise, you'll stay very confused.
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Joao Mendonca
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Hello again,

I'm playing the conquest solo scenario. 1 small question:

1) the scenario says 7 countryside tiles. Does this 7 count towards the 2 you have to reveal and attach to the starting portal tile? ( meaning I would be playing with 9) or from the 7 I reveal 2 that are the initial ones?

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Lex Major
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The 2 initial revealed tiles are part of the 7 countryside tiles you start with. It means there are 9 tiles remaining in the "tile stack" (5 countryside, 2 non-city core, 2 city core).

As for your original question, just as a comparison, the "Brutal" ability (red skull) works reverse from Swift: a "4 Brutal" attack needs only 4 Block, but if left unblocked deals 8 damage. There are still no partial damage. They are a pain.
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Joao Mendonca
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javascrybe wrote:
The 2 initial revealed tiles are part of the 7 countryside tiles you start with. It means there are 9 tiles remaining in the "tile stack" (5 countryside, 2 non-city core, 2 city core).

As for your original question, just as a comparison, the "Brutal" ability (red skull) works reverse from Swift: a "4 Brutal" attack needs only 4 Block, but if left unblocked deals 8 damage. There are still no partial damage. They are a pain.


I went through combat steps reading again and everytime an enemy pops up, or i fight him i read his ability carefully! thx for the heads up...

I'm on a bit of a strand now in my campaign and i'm on the last turn of the day (so i have 1 more night and 1 more cycle day\night) and it's not easy
 
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Joao Mendonca
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Hello once again!

This time I bring you images

So TOVAK is in a troublesome position ( but since it's the last turn of round 3) and he thought WHAT THE HELL!!! LETS KILL SOMEONE!!!!



So he encountered this Ice Mage in his tower and he decided to end him for good!

I moved silently toward him!!!! To unleash my attack ( losing 1 reputation )



And since I had no chance against his sheer power in his tower ( zero siege attack cards in deck - skipping the ranged and siege attack phase ) i decided to send my faithfull allies to withstand his attacks! ( block phase - declaring peasants and utem swordsmen has blockers ) (Block Phase: No block!)




Since their armor was 7 and the mage attack was 6 I was safe to kill him in the darkest way possible!!!! ( assign damage phase - my 2 units are unwounded so their combined armor of 7 withstand the 6 ice attack - gaining 1 wound each in the process (Assign Damage Phase: Utem Swordsmen (4 armor) assigned with 4 Damage (take 1 wound) (2 damage remains) Peasants (3 armor) assigned with 2 damage (take 1 wound).




( proceeding to the attack phase I play mana draw to access a second die from the source - I play call to arms powering it with my gold day die targeting the red cape monks and i select their second ability Fire Attack 4 that i power with the second die from the source - red mana - and then play rage for attack 2 (i could also played my last card sideways since i had the ability that states that once a turn i can play a card sideways and instead of 1 it has a value of 2 in this case Attack 2) making the total of 6 damage )

Killing the Ice Mage in his dreaded tower!!! (Gaining 5 fame and a spell from the supply - I selected Burning Shield)

Ahahahahhahahahahhahah ( evil laugh )

I hope you enjoyed TOVAK last turn from round 3 and please correct my mistakes




EDIT: Typos
EDIT 2: Explained the Block Phase \ Assign Damage Phase properly
 
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Gabriel Honore
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I don't get clearly what you did.

Why did you spend your units to try to block the mages ?

Then you assign damage to these units. You're right to wound them, but there is no "combined armor".
 
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Joao Mendonca
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nomrefuse wrote:
I don't get clearly what you did.

Why did you spend your units to try to block the mages ?

Then you assign damage to these units. You're right to wound them, but there is no "combined armor".


Ohhh! So i thought i could assign 1 unit to block for 4 and then another unit to block for 3, this isn't possible ?

EDIT: I'm correct, from the rulebook:

"Assign Damage Phase

First , you may choose one of your units and announce you want to assign damage to it.(...) If you do so, the unit gets wounded. (...). The damage total is then reduced by that units armor value. If the damage total is reduced to zero or less, the phase is over. If not, continue to assign the remainig damage. If any damage remains, you may assign it to another unit."

This was exactly what i did: Ice Mage attacks for 6 - i do not block - Proceed to assign damage - Unit 1 has 4 armor (gets 1 wound)- 2 damage remaining - Unit 2 has 3 armor (get 1 wound) 0 damage remaining.
 
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Gabriel Honore
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Jhonyb wrote:
Ohhh! So i thought i could assign 1 unit to block for 4 and then another unit to block for 3, this isn't possible ?


What creates maybe much of the confusion is talking about "block" when assigning damage. "Block" and "Assign damage" are incompatible in this game. It either of one, but never both (from a single attack).

It's perfectly fine to generate block 4 with a unit, and block 3 with another.

It's as well fine to assign damage the way you did.

Note that when assigning damage, you do not spend the unit, and you may assign damage to a spent unit.
That may be how you play, but I'm not sure.
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Joao Mendonca
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nomrefuse wrote:
Jhonyb wrote:
Ohhh! So i thought i could assign 1 unit to block for 4 and then another unit to block for 3, this isn't possible ?


What creates maybe much of the confusion is talking about "block" when assigning damage. "Block" and "Assign damage" are incompatible in this game. It either of one, but never both (from a single attack).

It's perfectly fine to generate block 4 with a unit, and block 3 with another.

It's as well fine to assign damage the way you did.

Note that when assigning damage, you do not spend the unit, and you may assign damage to a spent unit.
That may be how you play, but I'm not sure.


I worded my decisions in a wrong way, i corrected it now.
My units where already spent from previous turns

thx
 
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Gabriel Honore
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Well that's much clearer now and I don't see any mistakes !

Forward then !
 
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Joao Mendonca
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nomrefuse wrote:
Well that's much clearer now and I don't see any mistakes !

Forward then !


Going Forward i just to see if this one is good also:

I decided to attack a Red dragon



Ranged\Siege Phase: skipped

Block Phase:

I play Concentration powering it with a Green mana from the source on Blood Ritual where i choose 3 gold mana tokens.
I use one to power Cold Thoughness that states i have Ice Block 5 +1 per special ability, color of attack and resistance on the blocked enemy token - Looking at the Red Dragon i have Ice Block 5 + 3 (fire atack, + 2 resistances physical and fire) and i used tranquility with my skill for the remaining 1 damage (since it was fire dmg i needed 2 regular blocks)



Assign Damage Phase: I blocked 8 damage from the Red Dragon, the remaining 1 gives me a wound. All Damage blocked.

Attack Phase: I play the Spell Call to Arms (powered by a gold token) targeting Altem Mages in the supply for it's ability Cold Fire Attack 5 that if i power it with a blue or red it goes to 7 - I power it with my last gold token - Killing the Red Dragon.





Is this all ok ?

Edit: Rules correction
 
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MLeis
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You can't partially block.
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Sam Carroll
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Fielmann wrote:
You can't partially block.


Right. If you don't block all 9 attack, then none of it gets blocked, and it all comes through as damage. (This was changed when the system got ported over to Star Trek: Frontiers.)
 
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Joao Mendonca
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Damn I keep making this same mistake!!!

Thx

EDIT: I corrected my mistake
 
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Steve Scothern
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Why are you powering Concentration rather than just using it to get a Red mana? Is it because you want the source die to be rerolled and don't otherwise need it this turn?
 
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