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Subject: That art is IMO... rss

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Wilbert Kiemeneij
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Olagarro wrote:
Hello! I was considering a graphic overhaul of this game, doing some research and came across this thread. Since many of you think this is a great game with questionable art, then perhaps this might help.

I love the game Gaia Project but I think it deserves design as good as the gameplay. I decided to work on a graphic overhaul of the game for print & play. My design intentions are as follows:

1) Git rid of all the dated looking beveled edges and other areas of boring solid color.

2) Recreate the icon language of the game ( for clarity ) paying attention to familiarity of gamers to the Gaia Project and Terra Mystica "design language"

3) Give more room for the race and planet art in the game which is well done!

4) Move some information off the player board so that only the required information is there. (An overhaul of the player guide is coming)

5) The race ability and institute abilities are complicated enough as to not be properly represented by icons in the game. Switch to text for these two areas.

6) Show names for the buildings.

7) In general remove most superfluous design elements while maintaining a sci-fi style.

8) Clarify the "receive a research tile when you upgrade to a lab / academy"

9) Maintain compatibility with existing acrylic overlays.



These are the first two player boards I have applied these principles to. I'm asking for feedback on what I have done before proceeding with the other player boards, research board, and player aids. I don't think the map tiles need to be reimagined.

TERRANS https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WZ0z9sBzG72FOMSfhnpzk3_nPS_...

LANTIDS https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YuCnQuc3refA1yr8oNdRafu1Xmr...

I think this warrants its own thread.
 
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Aaron Cotton
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WilbertK wrote:
Olagarro wrote:
Hello! I was considering a graphic overhaul of this game, doing some research and came across this thread. Since many of you think this is a great game with questionable art, then perhaps this might help.

I love the game Gaia Project but I think it deserves design as good as the gameplay. I decided to work on a graphic overhaul of the game for print & play. My design intentions are as follows:

1) Git rid of all the dated looking beveled edges and other areas of boring solid color.

2) Recreate the icon language of the game ( for clarity ) paying attention to familiarity of gamers to the Gaia Project and Terra Mystica "design language"

3) Give more room for the race and planet art in the game which is well done!

4) Move some information off the player board so that only the required information is there. (An overhaul of the player guide is coming)

5) The race ability and institute abilities are complicated enough as to not be properly represented by icons in the game. Switch to text for these two areas.

6) Show names for the buildings.

7) In general remove most superfluous design elements while maintaining a sci-fi style.

8) Clarify the "receive a research tile when you upgrade to a lab / academy"

9) Maintain compatibility with existing acrylic overlays.



These are the first two player boards I have applied these principles to. I'm asking for feedback on what I have done before proceeding with the other player boards, research board, and player aids. I don't think the map tiles need to be reimagined.

TERRANS https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WZ0z9sBzG72FOMSfhnpzk3_nPS_...

LANTIDS https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YuCnQuc3refA1yr8oNdRafu1Xmr...

I think this warrants its own thread.


I've been getting dome feedback on Reddit and have some revised files. Also, I will start a new thread later this evening, thanks!

VERSION 2:

LANTIDS https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VKpef5X6TwIch4sIF1gCci4Uc_A...

TERRANS https://drive.google.com/file/d/1k9tcF3jhVihVJWxM6ThIMYdr0J4...

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Carsten Neumann
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SpaceTrucker wrote:
Final, printed faction board with components on it:


Where is the problem? The artwork does what it should do and is FAR from ugly.

Man, we board gamers do have first world problems shake
[edit: maybe I complained about art in the past, too ]

Not-pretty and party confusing art? Et voilà:

 
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horstderadler wrote:
Where is the problem? The artwork does what it should do and is FAR from ugly.
I'm not really sure what you think "it should do" means. Whether it is ugly or not is a personal opinion, but in mine, it's not so great. It's not horrible, but it could be much better.

But honestly, I'm more worried about the graphic design choices. This revised player board looks much much nicer to me than the original boards (although different faction art would make it even better).



I think stopping at "functional" is a mistake here. They could have made the board much nicer (as shown here).
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Christopher Grace
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Thunkd wrote:
horstderadler wrote:
Where is the problem? The artwork does what it should do and is FAR from ugly.
I'm not really sure what you think "it should do" means. Whether it is ugly or not is a personal opinion, but in mine, it's not so great. It's not horrible, but it could be much better.

But honestly, I'm more worried about the graphic design choices. This revised player board looks much much nicer to me than the original boards (although different faction art would make it even better).



I think stopping at "functional" is a mistake here. They could have made the board much nicer (as shown here).


If what it "Should do" includes convincing me to buy it - then it failed at what it "Should do". If not, it's just fine as is.
 
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Thunkd wrote:
horstderadler wrote:
Where is the problem? The artwork does what it should do and is FAR from ugly.
I'm not really sure what you think "it should do" means. Whether it is ugly or not is a personal opinion, but in mine, it's not so great. It's not horrible, but it could be much better.

But honestly, I'm more worried about the graphic design choices. This revised player board looks much much nicer to me than the original boards (although different faction art would make it even better).



I think stopping at "functional" is a mistake here. They could have made the board much nicer (as shown here).

Agreed. I never realized how clunky and outdated all the beveled borders and edges looked until I saw a version without them. Now I can't unsee it.
 
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Carsten Neumann
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For me, these - well done (!) - new boards are too much, too "modern" and too distracting.

I do not mind making new boards by fans. I was just confused about the first comments like "the game is too ugly to buy it".

Carry on maker of boards, cool stuff!
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Aaron Cotton
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horstderadler wrote:
For me, these - well done (!) - new boards are too much, too "modern" and too distracting.

I do not mind making new boards by fans. I was just confused about the first comments like "the game is too ugly to buy it".

Carry on maker of boards, cool stuff!


WILL DO!

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2197795/graphic-overhaul-wo...


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horstderadler wrote:
For me, these - well done (!) - new boards are too much, too "modern" and too distracting.


I find the new boards far clearer, cleaner, and much easier to parse at a glance.

I'm far more distracted by the completely inconsistent mix of shading, 2D, and 3D icons made from different perspectives laid out on the same plane. No graphic design instructor on earth would let that pass without correction.

3D gold and white icons from a top/centered perspective, on top of 2D hands from a full side perspective, right next to buildings presented on a diagonal perspective.

Don't even get me started on the garish color combinations.
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NuMystic wrote:
...buildings presented on a diagonal perspective.

Fun fact: that's called an isometric view.

Totally agree with your point about the mixed perspectives being off-putting and making no visual sense. gulp
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NuMystic wrote:
I find the new boards far clearer, cleaner, and much easier to parse at a glance.

I'm far more distracted by the completely inconsistent mix of shading, 2D, and 3D icons made from different perspectives laid out on the same plane. No graphic design instructor on earth would let that pass without correction.

3D gold and white icons from a top/centered perspective, on top of 2D hands from a full side perspective, right next to buildings presented on a diagonal perspective.

? But these new boards combine the diagonal 3D buildings and 2D hands as well?

I can imagine somebody theorizing that such combinations would impede comprehension, but to me all that's irrelevant.

I like these new boards, but I actually find them less easy to parse than the existing ones. The icons that explain the free actions at the bottom of the board are clearly worse than what we have currently. The new exchanges are laid out in an almost uniform grid so that you have to stare for a second to figure out what is being converted to what. Whereas the "flow chart" on the right of the existing boards is crystal clear.

In the new boards, the white lines that constitute the extremely bland numerals on the resource track are exactly the same lines that square-surround those numbers. I can feel my eye having to search out the numbers from within that assortment of lines.

Having the number of terraforming steps required for the planets stacked on top of each other vertically instead of horizontally is a step backward, for obvious reasons:

You have this information:

*

*
*

*
*
*

as opposed to this:

*

**

***


I do appreciate having the faction rules laid out on the mat in the new boards; but that cluster of text takes away from the cleanliness, and the ease of use is obviated by the fact that the bonus starting tech track image is no longer available. If I haven't played the game in a while, I don't know which one is the "knowledge" track, so I'm going to have to go back to the rule book anyway.

And there's just something about those bland numerals that really rubs me the wrong way. They seem completely detached not just from the surrounding aesthetic, but from any aesthetic imaginable.

To me, the one major improvement of the new boards is the opening of the background into space. (And the prospect of those new alien images, which look great!) It's much more aesthetically pleasing -- but, to me, the overall at-a-glance clarity of information is diminished, compared to the old boards.



 
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Wretched Git wrote:
NuMystic wrote:
I find the new boards far clearer, cleaner, and much easier to parse at a glance.

I'm far more distracted by the completely inconsistent mix of shading, 2D, and 3D icons made from different perspectives laid out on the same plane. No graphic design instructor on earth would let that pass without correction.

3D gold and white icons from a top/centered perspective, on top of 2D hands from a full side perspective, right next to buildings presented on a diagonal perspective.

? But these new boards combine the diagonal 3D buildings and 2D hands as well?

Yes, but the icon the hand is holding is also now 2D. The weirdness came from a 2D hand holding a 3D icon. Anyway, that's a super minor aspect of the whole redesign.

Quote:
I can imagine somebody theorizing that such combinations would impede comprehension, but to me all that's irrelevant.

That's great since nobody thus far has claimed those things would impede comprehension. Just that they looked bad and were distracting.

Quote:
I like these new boards, but I actually find them less easy to parse than the existing ones. The icons that explain the free actions at the bottom of the board are clearly worse than what we have currently. The new exchanges are laid out in an almost uniform grid so that you have to stare for a second to figure out what is being converted to what. Whereas the "flow chart" on the right of the existing boards is crystal clear.

I find the style on these new boards much simpler to parse than the flowchart layout, so that's just personal preference. It's certainly not "clearly worse."

Quote:
In the new boards, the white lines that constitute the extremely bland numerals on the resource track are exactly the same lines that square-surround those numbers. I can feel my eye having to search out the numbers from within that mass of lines.

I'm not even sure what "extremely bland" means in this context. You would prefer a more baroque font, perhaps? I also have no idea what "mass of lines" you're talking about. Regardless, the color issue you mention is only the case on the grey board, and I assume that could be easily remedied. Check out how they look on the blue faction board.

Quote:
Having the number of terraforming steps required for the planets stacked on top of each other vertically instead of horizontally is a step backward, for obvious reasons:

You have this information:

*

*
*

*
*
*

as opposed to this:

*

**

***

Is it obvious? I have no idea what your issue is with this, or why you think the vertical orientation is so obviously a problem. It's perfectly understandable to me.


Quote:
I do appreciate having the faction rules laid out on the mat in the new boards; but that cluster of text takes away from the cleanliness, and the ease of use is obviated by the fact that the bonus starting tech track image is no longer available. If I haven't played the game in a while, I don't know which one is the "knowledge" track, so I'm going to have to go back to the rule book anyway.

This is a fair point, although the names of the research tracks are all pretty self explanatory. However, the new boards should probably use the same names as the rule book ("knowledge" should be "science")

Quote:
And there's just something about those bland numerals that really rubs me the wrong way. They seem completely detached not just from the surrounding aesthetic, but from any aesthetic imaginable.

I find this perplexing. It's just a nice, clean, simple font.
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Aaron Cotton
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Wretched Git wrote:
NuMystic wrote:
I find the new boards far clearer, cleaner, and much easier to parse at a glance.

I'm far more distracted by the completely inconsistent mix of shading, 2D, and 3D icons made from different perspectives laid out on the same plane. No graphic design instructor on earth would let that pass without correction.

3D gold and white icons from a top/centered perspective, on top of 2D hands from a full side perspective, right next to buildings presented on a diagonal perspective.

? But these new boards combine the diagonal 3D buildings and 2D hands as well?

I can imagine somebody theorizing that such combinations would impede comprehension, but to me all that's irrelevant.

I like these new boards, but I actually find them less easy to parse than the existing ones. The icons that explain the free actions at the bottom of the board are clearly worse than what we have currently. The new exchanges are laid out in an almost uniform grid so that you have to stare for a second to figure out what is being converted to what. Whereas the "flow chart" on the right of the existing boards is crystal clear.

In the new boards, the white lines that constitute the extremely bland numerals on the resource track are exactly the same lines that square-surround those numbers. I can feel my eye having to search out the numbers from within that mass of lines.

Having the number of terraforming steps required for the planets stacked on top of each other vertically instead of horizontally is a step backward, for obvious reasons:

You have this information:

*

*
*

*
*
*

as opposed to this:

*

**

***


I do appreciate having the faction rules laid out on the mat in the new boards; but that cluster of text takes away from the cleanliness, and the ease of use is obviated by the fact that the bonus starting tech track image is no longer available. If I haven't played the game in a while, I don't know which one is the "knowledge" track, so I'm going to have to go back to the rule book anyway.

And there's just something about those bland numerals that really rubs me the wrong way. They seem completely detached not just from the surrounding aesthetic, but from any aesthetic imaginable.

To me, the one major improvement of the new boards is the opening of the background into space. (And the prospect of those new alien images, which look great!) It's much more aesthetically pleasing -- but, to me, the overall at-a-glance clarity of information is diminished, compared to the old boards.





Thanks for the feedback, you might want to add it to the other thread. It's a work in progress and Im willing to hear constructive feedback for sure. I stopped posting this on Reddit because the feedback was either, "this is great!" (most of them) or "this sucks!"

Good point on the layout of the terraforming icons. I'm not sure what to say about the "bland" numerals. Do you mean the typeface? The colors have been chosen for readability.

Im trying to combine icons and text for the race ability and PI ability and will try to have that in for the next revision
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Quote:
I find this perplexing. It's just a nice, clean, simple font.


Might I suggest Papyrus?



EDIT: Stupid BGG tags. link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVhlJNJopOQ
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krztoff wrote:
Quote:
I find this perplexing. It's just a nice, clean, simple font.


Might I suggest Papyrus?



EDIT: Stupid BGG tags. link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVhlJNJopOQ


This is AMAZING

Thank you!

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”.”

― John Lydgate

I have been in advertising for 20 years. I'm well aware of people just wanting something that appeals to THEM, typeface wise.
 
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krztoff wrote:
Quote:
I find this perplexing. It's just a nice, clean, simple font.


Might I suggest Papyrus?



EDIT: Stupid BGG tags. link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVhlJNJopOQ

Ha! That is great. Writing papyrus in comic sans in the final scene is a nice touch too.
 
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I personally like and prefer the original design, but I think this redesign is super cool mainly because it is so different than the original- it is clearly appealing to people who disliked the original artwork and that's great, to have 'something for everyone' as it were.

I understand feedback is being requested and that's good too, but comparing old and new is really besides the point IMHO... tribalism is bad, mmmkay? laugh
 
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Wretched Git wrote:
NuMystic wrote:
I find the new boards far clearer, cleaner, and much easier to parse at a glance.

I'm far more distracted by the completely inconsistent mix of shading, 2D, and 3D icons made from different perspectives laid out on the same plane. No graphic design instructor on earth would let that pass without correction.

3D gold and white icons from a top/centered perspective, on top of 2D hands from a full side perspective, right next to buildings presented on a diagonal perspective.

? But these new boards combine the diagonal 3D buildings and 2D hands as well?

I can imagine somebody theorizing that such combinations would impede comprehension, but to me all that's irrelevant.

I like these new boards, but I actually find them less easy to parse than the existing ones. The icons that explain the free actions at the bottom of the board are clearly worse than what we have currently. The new exchanges are laid out in an almost uniform grid so that you have to stare for a second to figure out what is being converted to what. Whereas the "flow chart" on the right of the existing boards is crystal clear.

In the new boards, the white lines that constitute the extremely bland numerals on the resource track are exactly the same lines that square-surround those numbers. I can feel my eye having to search out the numbers from within that assortment of lines.

Having the number of terraforming steps required for the planets stacked on top of each other vertically instead of horizontally is a step backward, for obvious reasons:

You have this information:

*

*
*

*
*
*

as opposed to this:

*

**

***


I do appreciate having the faction rules laid out on the mat in the new boards; but that cluster of text takes away from the cleanliness, and the ease of use is obviated by the fact that the bonus starting tech track image is no longer available. If I haven't played the game in a while, I don't know which one is the "knowledge" track, so I'm going to have to go back to the rule book anyway.

And there's just something about those bland numerals that really rubs me the wrong way. They seem completely detached not just from the surrounding aesthetic, but from any aesthetic imaginable.

To me, the one major improvement of the new boards is the opening of the background into space. (And the prospect of those new alien images, which look great!) It's much more aesthetically pleasing -- but, to me, the overall at-a-glance clarity of information is diminished, compared to the old boards.





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Olagarro wrote:



Ooh, nice!! Wow, everything's there, with the nice flow chart -- and how cool is it to have the text at the bottom, leaving that lovely Terra untouched by everything but the sweet tech bonus symbol! Fantastic.

It's all so good that there are only the tiniest nits to pick!

* The small reminders to take a tech tile when you build research buildings are great -- the reminder on the "old" boards is terrible -- but that little "plus" symbol covers that bottom little "leg" of the tech-tile silhouette so that its shape is not immediately recognizable as a tech tile. (It kinda looks instead like a coffee mug!) Can that plus sign be moved a little? In fact, I think they could be deleted entirely.

* Just a personal preference, but I think the transparency of all the planes could be increased -- possibly to cool effect!


 
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Wretched Git wrote:
Olagarro wrote:



Ooh, nice!! Wow, everything's there, with the nice flow chart -- and how cool is it to have the text at the bottom, leaving that lovely Terra untouched by everything but the sweet tech bonus symbol! Fantastic.

It's all so good that there are only the tiniest nits to pick!

* The small reminders to take a tech tile when you build research buildings are great -- the reminder on the "old" boards is terrible -- but that little "plus" symbol covers that bottom little "leg" of the tech-tile silhouette so that its shape is not immediately recognizable as a tech tile. (It kinda looks instead like a coffee mug!) Can that plus sign be moved a little? In fact, I think they could be deleted entirely.

* Just a personal preference, but I think the transparency of all the planes could be increased -- possibly to cool effect!





















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Amayyzing! These are awesome, I would definitely back a KS for these. (Is it possible to use KS earnings to pay the alien artists a fee?)

I'm probably insane, but I would love to see what even more transparency in the planes might look like!

I know it would be a horrid amount of work for you, but I'd love to see what you would do with the tech board.


 
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Wretched Git wrote:
Amayyzing! These are awesome, I would definitely back a KS for these. (Is it possible to use KS earnings to pay the alien artists a fee?)

I'm probably insane, but I would love to see what even more transparency in the planes might look like!

I know it would be a horrid amount of work for you, but I'd love to see what you would do with the tech board.




Thanks! (The tech board is in progress and so is the scoring board )
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One thing: I'm wondering if we really need that terraforming symbol on that transdim planet on the left. It kind of mars that cool picture. (But there may be some practical reason I'm not thinking of...)

 
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Not sure I detest the original that much. They have a nice retro feel to them.

These alternatives look great. Especially the ones by Aaron cotton. Maybe too polished/aaa-computer-game look. Maybe push a bit amateurism/flaws into them. More rounded corners. Emphasize the build flow chart more. Just random persons two cents.

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Aaron Cotton
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Wretched Git wrote:
One thing: I'm wondering if we really need that terraforming symbol on that transdim planet on the left. It kind of mars that cool picture. (But there may be some practical reason I'm not thinking of...)



Ok, I'll get rid of it
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