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Subject: That art is IMO... rss

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Tilou
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rednar wrote:
tilouboy wrote:
rednar wrote:
What's growing here is mainly a huge debate based on a blurry, low resulotion image of a prototype component.


The cover is no protoptype and is not blurry.


Well if you're ready to pass on a game because of its cover then I think it's not the game you're interested in. But to each their own I guess.


Did I say that?
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Chris Ruf
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A lot of assumptions flying around. Just because several of us are criticizing the art, it does not mean some of us won't still purchase the game. I bought Castles of Burgundy even though I thought it was ugly, and it's one of my top 10 games.
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Big Tom Casual
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It's totally legitimate to criticize piss poor awful art and graphic design.

It's ridiculous to try to marginalize people for wanting professional looking products as if that desire is somehow naive or petty. Just because someone wants a game to not look unbelievably terrible doesn't mean they for some reason don't appreciate good gameplay at the same time.

There are many games I love that absolute deserve strong strong criticism for crappy unprofessional amateur hour visual design.
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DocCool wrote:
I had always wondered about the plethora of mediocre-to-bad games published each year, which seemingly still find buyers - of course based on my own value system for games which is around 75% game play, 15% component quality and 10% looks.

But then I realized that there are plenty of people with a completely different value system for games:
1) "game amateurs" who buy games not because they are good, but because they look good - and may decide on just the box art
2) "collectors" who buy games not because they are good, but because they look good in their collection
3) "connoisseurs" who value art over game play (which I seem to find in this thread - who would have expected so many art lovers on BGG? )

I would be surprised if the evaluation of "looks good" for group 1) and group 3) match.

From a publisher point of view, I guess that the non-buyers from group 3) are less relevant than the buyers from group 1), so if the art is "good enough" for those like me who consider art as an afterthought for a game, and appeals to group 1), then it means sales are good.

All in all, the art and design of this game is definitely good enough for me, and if others pass on the game because of its art, it's their loss.


What we actually meant:
A) We hope the game is good.
B) We want "better" art based on what we've seen so far.

From what I've seen here it seems that there're people who think that:
1) "better" art hinders good gameplay;
2) we shouldn't ask for "better" art or we're valuing art over gameplay;
3) the art is good enough for them so it can't be improved; AND/OR
4) no complaint is allowed.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man. modest
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Chris Ruf
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Great gameplay alone just isn't going to cut it anymore. We have so many to choose from and divide our attention between that we no longer have to settle for bad to mediocre art and components uness the gameplay is seriously the greatest ever.

And I'm definitely going to try and play this since I love TM, but I was hoping for better seeing as TM's art and graphic design were better than this one's.
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Christopher Grace
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Legend5555 wrote:
Great gameplay alone just isn't going to cut it anymore. We have so many to choose from and divide our attention between that we no longer have to settle for bad to mediocre art and components uness the gameplay is seriously the greatest ever.

And I'm definitely going to try and play this since I love TM, but I was hoping for better seeing as TM's art and graphic design were better than this one's.


This is what I'm thinking. TM has passable artwork, and is an incredible game. As someone who doesn't already own TM, why would I buy Gaia Project instead of just picking up TM secondhand for cheap?
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Peter Paul
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Because they are two diffent games. Enough.



 
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Ryan Bull
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Makes me wish I had three hands so I could give this artwork three thumbs down.
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Randy Shields
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This game ain't got no alibi it's....
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Eric Daoust
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They should take notice of the whole Empires: Age of Discovery remake into Empires:Galactic Rebellion failure.

And EGR looks much better than Gaia Project imo.

I would play Gaia if a friend would buy it but I will skip this one because of it's horrible artwork and graphic design for now. And TM is in my top 5 of all time.

Please reconsider this artwork and graphic design and make this not only a great game but a quality one.
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Jason Dunn
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Do we know that this artwork is the finished product?
 
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Frank Heeren
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Thunkd wrote:
The cover... yeah, that's really horrible. Whoever approved that cover should be ashamed.

krztoff wrote:
It's so bad as to barely even evoke the theme.

DA_Maz wrote:
In general this looks like a 20€ game and for this kind of artwork, a Print and Play version would totally suffice.

Guibs wrote:
The art is horrible. The player board is one of the worst thing I have seen in a boardgame.

Bellor wrote:
Terrible art! The box art is so bad, my hives are coming out.

boardgamesdotEXE wrote:
Gaia Project's artwork is actively repulsive and the player boards are just generally a mess.

CasualToast wrote:
It's totally legitimate to criticize piss poor awful art and graphic design.

GameplayerOfTitan wrote:
Makes me wish I had three hands so I could give this artwork three thumbs down.

Wow.

IMO there is nothing wrong with the art, in fact Dennis is a brilliant, award winning artist, but there is definitely something wrong with this rude language.

Of course you do not have to like it, but would you speak in such an offensive manner to your friends & family if you do not like something they did? If you don't, then I kindly ask you to show some courtesy to Dennis as well.
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Chris Ruf
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nan3000 wrote:
IMO there is nothing wrong with the art, in fact Dennis is a brilliant, award winning artist, but there is definitely something wrong with this rude language.

Of course you do not have to like it, but would you speak in such an offensive manner to your friends & family if you do not like something they did? If you don't, then I kindly ask you to show some courtesy to Dennis as well.


I can't speak for everyone else you quoted, but sugar coating isn't my style. You even admitted that Dennis's style isn't a good match for the theme. Maybe it was you, or someone at your company that realized Dennis wasn't the right person for this game. Yet, the decision was made to use Dennis anyway because it's a "Terra Mystica" game. That to me is not a good enough excuse to use lackluster art. Dennis has indeed done good work, but someone should have told him no on this one.
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Uroš Zorić
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nan3000 wrote:

Wow.

IMO there is nothing wrong with the art, in fact Dennis is a brilliant, award winning artist, but there is definitely something wrong with this rude language.

Of course you do not have to like it, but would you speak in such an offensive manner to your friends & family if you do not like something they did? If you don't, then I kindly ask you to show some courtesy to Dennis as well.


Although I do not share the style of the previously stated criticisms, I'm saddened to see that you will just be disregarding all of it. The fact that you are willing to read the negative reactions and say that you don't see anything wrong with it is just irrational. You guys have a dedicated fanbase that is willing to step in and give you the feedback from the get go - I see that as a very valuable resource of information.

For what it's worth, I am also hoping that what I've seen up until now is not the final art + graphical design since it seems like a step back when comparing it to Terra Mystica.
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3EBC wrote:
nan3000 wrote:

Wow.

IMO there is nothing wrong with the art, in fact Dennis is a brilliant, award winning artist, but there is definitely something wrong with this rude language.

Of course you do not have to like it, but would you speak in such an offensive manner to your friends & family if you do not like something they did? If you don't, then I kindly ask you to show some courtesy to Dennis as well.


Although I do not share the style of the previously stated criticisms, I'm saddened to see that you will just be disregarding all of it. The fact that you are willing to read the negative reactions and say that you don't see anything wrong with it is just irrational. You guys have a dedicated fanbase that is willing to step in and give you the feedback from the get go - I see that as a very valuable resource of information.

For what it's worth, I am also hoping that what I've seen up until now is not the final art + graphical design since it seems like a step back when comparing it to Terra Mystica.


I agree that they're a bit aggressive but I do hope designer/publisher can take it like how Roxley does during the Brass campaign. People complain about everything all the time because we're not in the age when silhouette on chits could suffice (I do love them by the way). The recent Brass campaign definitely suffers a lot from legitimate/irrational complaints but Roxley does all it could to answer and handle the complaints no matter how trivial they were (in bgg and KS page). This is the reason why I back the KS even though my OLGS offers them for a lower price. And I hope they keep revamping games in the future because a good game definitely deserves better* treatment. The bar is raised I'd say.

*Yes however you want to interpret it.
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Giovanni Cicchetti
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I hope that I am the majority on this one but I like the art and I totally trust the designer to make the right decision for his game. I wouldn't listen to a bunch of kids who didn't get what they wanted for Christmas. Like it don't like it ... it is your personal opinion. I'm just happy that first it is not on Kickstarter and that the designer is sharing information with us. My advice don't listen to a few with loud voices. I hope that this doesn't fall into the same conversation that Terra Mystica felt into with the unbalanced factions which in my opinion got way to much attention (with a contest with a mini-expansion to balance all the factions). Keep the good work and keep us informed on the latest developments.
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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nan3000 wrote:
IMO there is nothing wrong with the art, in fact Dennis is a brilliant, award winning artist, but there is definitely something wrong with this rude language.
I'm sorry you don't care for the way it was expressed, but we're doing you a favor by giving you feedback about a potential problem. The fact that it was expressed so directly and forcefully might indicate how strongly we feel about the art.

nan3000 wrote:
Of course you do not have to like it, but would you speak in such an offensive manner to your friends & family if you do not like something they did?
If my friends or family were making a financial decision, like publishing a game with a huge flaw, then yes, I would most definitely speak very bluntly to them about the problem. The blunter the better, to impress on them how severe the issue was.

nan3000 wrote:
I kindly ask you to show some courtesy to Dennis
Is there a polite way to express that, in my opinion, the art is bad? I don't know of a good way to do that. Ultimately, my reason for being on BGG is to discuss games, including the art. I'm not going to censor myself when I don't care for games. I'm going to criticize a game with bad gameplay. And a game with bad artwork. I had hoped that this thread might convince someone to reconsider this art, but it doesn't seem likely.

There are more than enough games with good gameplay. I can't play them all, much less own them all. I can't even get the games with great gameplay that I already own to the table often enough. So a game that's not attractive is something I can pass on.
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Łukasz Małecki
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Thunkd wrote:
There are more than enough games with good art. I can't play them all, much less own them all. I can't even get the games with great art that I already own to the table often enough. So a game that doesn't have compelling, captivating gameplay is something I can pass on.


Fixed it for you

I'd play Gaia with current art any day over something like Scythe, a beautiful game with mediocre gameplay. And while I agree that great art never hurts great gameplay, it seems like not every game can be a work of art - just like not every game has good gameplay (in fact, it's a lot easier to find beautiful art nowadays than great games). I believe the player boards look better in higher resolution and for me are more than enough. Whether the publisher will make any drastic changes to the current art design, I do not know, but I personally couldn't care less - the game looks good enough already and is chock full of components. And it has gameplay that makes it WAY better than most eurogames of recent times.

I'd gladly play chess with a plainest set and probably wouldn't notice a difference if someone brought a set made of gold and diamonds. It's still the same game.
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Chris Ruf
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rednar wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
There are more than enough games with good art. I can't play them all, much less own them all. I can't even get the games with great art that I already own to the table often enough. So a game that doesn't have compelling, captivating gameplay is something I can pass on.


Fixed it for you

I'd play Gaia with current art any day over something like Scythe, a beautiful game with mediocre gameplay. And while I agree that great art never hurts great gameplay, it seems like not every game can be a work of art - just like not every game has good gameplay (in fact, it's a lot easier to find beautiful art nowadays than great games). I believe the player boards look better in higher resolution and for me are more than enough. Whether the publisher will make any drastic changes to the current art design, I do not know, but I personally couldn't care less - the game looks good enough already and is chock full of components. And it has gameplay that makes it WAY better than most eurogames of recent times.

I'd gladly play chess with a plainest set and probably wouldn't notice a difference if someone brought a set made of gold and diamonds. It's still the same game.


Are we really just going to keep recycling the "it matters to some and not others" argument over and over here? You seemed to have missed that point or just want to ignore it. We all know taste in art is subjective. And as was stated prior, some of us are annoyed that a game of this perceived caliber is getting what we consider pretty bad art.
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Trey Chambers
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I honestly think the art is fine, just PLEASE REMOVE the metal plating on the cover, and we're good.
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rednar wrote:

I'd gladly play chess with a plainest set and probably wouldn't notice a difference if someone brought a set made of gold and diamonds. It's still the same game.


I'd also gladly play Gaia if they chose the black and white minimalistic look like some chess set does and no I believe some of us don't really want blink blink

But the point (or our point) is the current art direction doesn't look good to us and we hope the publisher/designer hear us. Now it seems they notice it I'm definitely satisfied.
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Bryan Thunkd
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rednar wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
There are more than enough games with good art. I can't play them all, much less own them all. I can't even get the games with great art that I already own to the table often enough. So a game that doesn't have compelling, captivating gameplay is something I can pass on.


Fixed it for you
And if this were the only game with great gameplay, I might feel like I was missing out. But I already own a lot of games with great gameplay. I won't be suffering. And honestly, I don't even know if Gaia Project will be a game I would have loved yet or not.

red at wrote:
I'd play Gaia with current art any day over something like Scythe, a beautiful game with mediocre gameplay.
Except that's not the choice. I don't have to settle for a game with great art and mediocre gameplay or a game with great gameplay and mediocre art. Instead I can play a game that provides great play and aesthetics, like Go. I'm not missing out on anything by passing on this game. I already have tons of games where I like the play and the art. I don't have to compromise.
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Robert
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I paid 100 Geek Gold so that you can read this! :-)
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3EBC wrote:
nan3000 wrote:

Wow.

IMO there is nothing wrong with the art, in fact Dennis is a brilliant, award winning artist, but there is definitely something wrong with this rude language.

Of course you do not have to like it, but would you speak in such an offensive manner to your friends & family if you do not like something they did? If you don't, then I kindly ask you to show some courtesy to Dennis as well.


Although I do not share the style of the previously stated criticisms, I'm saddened to see that you will just be disregarding all of it. The fact that you are willing to read the negative reactions and say that you don't see anything wrong with it is just irrational. You guys have a dedicated fanbase that is willing to step in and give you the feedback from the get go - I see that as a very valuable resource of information.

For what it's worth, I am also hoping that what I've seen up until now is not the final art + graphical design since it seems like a step back when comparing it to Terra Mystica.
AFAIK, the game is scheduled to be out for the Spiel 2017 in Essen, so it's safe to assume that printing and component and packing is already ordered, if not underway.

Also, as mentioned several times in this thread by various posters, taste is a personal thing and just because a dozen people here say they don't like the art, that doesn't mean it's a majority view, or should cause the publisher to shout "stop the press, we need a new design, reschedule release to 2018!".

You mention that you gave "feedback" (some stuff I read here sounded more like demands or threats). It's up to the recipient whether he/she considers to act upon feedback, and more so if the feedback arrives unasked and in an impolite way. Obviously Frank has read and considered the input and decided to stick to the previous decisions. That's normal - just because he doesn't give in to your personal preferences doesn't make him "irrational". shake
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Bastian Winkelhaus
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Well written Robert, agree 100%.
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Big Tom Casual
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I think people are getting really hung up on the art when it's the graphic design that's the real stinker.



If you look ONLY at the character image the art is fine. But this image taken as a whole is one of the worst images of a board game component I've seen in years. It belongs on a list mocking failed kickstarters.

If the artist on this game is not also the graphic designer then I agree he deserves a bit of a pass and the witch hunt should redirect its anger.
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