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Subject: Stretch Goals lacking? rss

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Jeremy Yoder
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Is it just me, or do the stretch goals feel quite lacking? Seems entire decks would be better choices rather than single cards. And the single cards seem odd -- I'd expect a single stretch goals to have a variant for ALL heroes. At best, only some heroes will have variants, and I've no interest in a GameMaster guide or fictional story -- those only apply to those going the $75 route. I only want more SotM goodness, so the stretch goals make this project feel a bit "off."

I get the "Crossover" idea and wanting people to try your other products, but this seems it should primarily have a SotM game design focus, with all the Green Ronin stuff to be included as an add-on, rather than an odd mash-up that doesn't zero in on the elements that interest the main backers.

I'd back this right away if it had good SotM-centric stretch goals, but as it is, I'm on the fence. If I want it later, I'm guessing I can get it cheaper from online stores, and only miss out on 3 hero variants (oh, and 1 of the 4 villains having an oversized card ), which are easy to print as they don't need to be shuffled. Or am I missing something?
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JYoder wrote:
I get the "Crossover" idea and wanting people to try your other products, but this seems it should primarily have a SotM game design focus, with all the Green Ronin stuff to be included as an add-on, rather than an odd mash-up that doesn't zero in on the elements that interest the main backers.

Who are the main backers? Are they Sentinels fans adding more content to their game or are they Mutants and Masterminds fans getting more of their characters in a new format?
 
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Jeremy Yoder
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Matchstickman wrote:
JYoder wrote:
I get the "Crossover" idea and wanting people to try your other products, but this seems it should primarily have a SotM game design focus, with all the Green Ronin stuff to be included as an add-on, rather than an odd mash-up that doesn't zero in on the elements that interest the main backers.

Who are the main backers? Are they Sentinels fans adding more content to their game or are they Mutants and Masterminds fans getting more of their characters in a new format?


From the start, I assumed the first, along with a third category -- those who like both, as it's the SotM engine that's driving it, but maybe I'm wrong.
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Josh
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By the numbers this is a Sentinels project with an Earth Prime flavor.

As of 5/1/17 2:08 PM EST

1400 backing for the Sentinels game

400 backing for both game and RPG

26 backing for just the RPG products

I feel the stretch goals were geared with an eye the the later rather than the earlier Sentinels numbers, and if the case this was a mistake.

From the Sentinels fans point of view this is an entirely new IP for the most part, some crossover knowledge might exist but it is by no means garunteed. GMG can count on some Sentinels fans to pony up for anything Sentinels (the project is well funded at this point after all) but with Obliveon in the pipe after a long and storied arc many might believe they have 'enough.' This should have been geared more towards being a hook (first taste is free...) with rapid rewards if small (like promos) and an eye towards a more minimal profit margin overall but offering us addicts too pretty a picture to refuse.

Down the line with expansions, once we're invested, that's where you stretch out the goals and keep a neater profit. Sentinels fans have proven we'll throw money at a good prodict, but we still need to be courted just like any consumer at the beginning.

Just my $.02
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Ian Toltz
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Matchstickman wrote:
are they Mutants and Masterminds fans getting more of their characters in a new format?


I'm genuinely curious about this, actually. M&M is an RPG where you make your own characters. I could see the villains being popular, since I'm sure many GMs use the villains straight out of the book, but I'm dubious that many people actually care at all about the hero characters. Hell, I'd question how many people even know they exist. You'd only know about them if you'd actually read the rulebook (which many RPG players don't, aside from what's necessary to make their character) or if their GM actually used the characters as NPCs.
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Tyler
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JYoder wrote:
From the start, I assumed the first, along with a third category -- those who like both, as it's the SotM engine that's driving it, but maybe I'm wrong.

I fall in the third category myself, but even then, I'm only backing for the card game. After all, as an M&M fan, I've got all the RPG books that I want. It's new game content that I'm after.
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Justin H

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I think more and more people are forgetting what Kickstarter is. People are now viewing it, and to a degree it is becoming, a preorder system. They appear to expect to be lavished with free stuff.

The way a view it, and certainly true with some stuff I've backed, that these games might not even exist without people backing them. If you like something, and want it to exist, back it.
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Crazed Survivor
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I'm not a fan of the SG chart, but my main gripe with the campain is that Green Ronin is sitting on its arse waiting for the cash to come and barely communicates at all. This campaign is lackluster and the updates are nothing but copy-pasted info from character rulebooks.
We don't have any idea where the decks are going and that's not very appealing.
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Marco Teti
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jhochges wrote:
I think more and more people are forgetting what Kickstarter is. People are now viewing it, and to a degree it is becoming, a preorder system. They appear to expect to be lavished with free stuff.

The way a view it, and certainly true with some stuff I've backed, that these games might not even exist without people backing them. If you like something, and want it to exist, back it.


I agree to an extent. The fact that there are sooooooo many KS campaigns that 'dangle the carrot' so players do back. 'Look free stuff!!!! only if you back!! It's exclusive to you if you back!'

That's not reassuring for those that just recently find out about a game. I've only backed games of late that have KS that offer better components or in some cases an expansion that will be extra for those that didn't back. That's ok. Santorini did it right. Too Many Bones did it right.

At any rate. I'm keeping a watch. I usually don't back until the last minute. If I have the funds, I'll back it. Like I said.... It's a wait and see approach for me.



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Crazed Survivor
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SgtTenor wrote:
I agree to an extent. The fact that there are sooooooo many KS campaigns that 'dangle the carrot' so players do back. 'Look free stuff!!!! only if you back!! It's exclusive to you if you back!'


Funny, I'm reviewing Hero Realms and the carrot thing is the exact words I'm using to explain why I backed a game I knew I wouldn't like as a PvP game
 
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Josh
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jhochges wrote:
I think more and more people are forgetting what Kickstarter is. People are now viewing it, and to a degree it is becoming, a preorder system. They appear to expect to be lavished with free stuff.

The way a view it, and certainly true with some stuff I've backed, that these games might not even exist without people backing them. If you like something, and want it to exist, back it.


KS is a funding platform used by different crewtors for different things. I think it is safe to say Green Ronin isn't a fly by night operstion at this point. Pushing a starter set close to margin for long term gain is entirely within reason, and the KzS model helps significsntly in avoiding the dreaded overprinting.
 
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Justin H

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Razoupaf wrote:
SgtTenor wrote:
I agree to an extent. The fact that there are sooooooo many KS campaigns that 'dangle the carrot' so players do back. 'Look free stuff!!!! only if you back!! It's exclusive to you if you back!'


Funny, I'm reviewing Hero Realms and the carrot thing is the exact words I'm using to explain why I backed a game I knew I wouldn't like as a PvP game


That campaign mode has been taking a while.
 
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Justin H

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Shadrach wrote:
jhochges wrote:
I think more and more people are forgetting what Kickstarter is. People are now viewing it, and to a degree it is becoming, a preorder system. They appear to expect to be lavished with free stuff.

The way a view it, and certainly true with some stuff I've backed, that these games might not even exist without people backing them. If you like something, and want it to exist, back it.


KS is a funding platform used by different crewtors for different things. I think it is safe to say Green Ronin isn't a fly by night operstion at this point. Pushing a starter set close to margin for long term gain is entirely within reason, and the KzS model helps significsntly in avoiding the dreaded overprinting.


They might not be a fly by night operation, but they certainly don't do many board games. This KS might be to test the waters to see if there is demand for this product, which I'm guessing is at least partially true. It doesn't seem that they have much of it created yet. If the KS failed, they might not have done it.

It's also possible that they were banking on the success of Oblivaeon to drive sales for this. That KS was what, $1.5M? Perhaps the SGs would be reorganized if they expected the type of response they are getting now.
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Jeremy Yoder
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For me, coming so soon after Oblivaeon is a reason I'm leaning toward not backing. I know Oblivaeon is coming. But 1 year from now, if I were itching for more SotM, I'd be much more apt to jump on board.
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Josh
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jhochges wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
jhochges wrote:
I think more and more people are forgetting what Kickstarter is. People are now viewing it, and to a degree it is becoming, a preorder system. They appear to expect to be lavished with free stuff.

The way a view it, and certainly true with some stuff I've backed, that these games might not even exist without people backing them. If you like something, and want it to exist, back it.


KS is a funding platform used by different crewtors for different things. I think it is safe to say Green Ronin isn't a fly by night operstion at this point. Pushing a starter set close to margin for long term gain is entirely within reason, and the KzS model helps significsntly in avoiding the dreaded overprinting.


They might not be a fly by night operation, but they certainly don't do many board games. This KS might be to test the waters to see if there is demand for this product, which I'm guessing is at least partially true. It doesn't seem that they have much of it created yet. If the KS failed, they might not have done it.

It's also possible that they were banking on the success of Oblivaeon to drive sales for this. That KS was what, $1.5M? Perhaps the SGs would be reorganized if they expected the type of response they are getting now.


This was exactly my point above. I think they ppanned this KS using data from a project well into arc rather than beginning the arc.
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Any idea if the stretch goals are exclusive to the campaign or not? I like that all of the SotM add-on decks and variant cards are not, since if (let's be honest here, when) I decide to actually buy the game, I can also get all of the promos that I missed at a reasonable additional cost.
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Tyler
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ThinkingThatsAll wrote:
Any idea if the stretch goals are exclusive to the campaign or not? I like that all of the SotM add-on decks and variant cards are not, since if (let's be honest here, when) I decide to actually buy the game, I can also get all of the promos that I missed at a reasonable additional cost.

Green Ronin hasn't said either way yet. It's a good question worth asking them.
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Crazed Survivor
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If they keep SotM's model they won't be exclusive but they will be a pain to get.
Young Legacy became quite expensive if memory serves, and it took the variant collection to make her available again.
 
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Tyler
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Razoupaf wrote:
If they keep SotM's model they won't be exclusive but they will be a pain to get.
Young Legacy became quite expensive if memory serves, and it took the variant collection to make her available again.

Acquiring variants did become easier with time, as Greater Than realized how much demand there was for them. The last few -- Termi-Nation, Santa Guise -- were available for regular purchase in their web store.

Since the variants haven't been called out as being exclusive to Kickstarter, it seems likely they'll continue to be available after the campaign. Hopefully more easily than the days of "go to the Greater Than booth at a convention and ask what they have available."
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