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Scythe» Forums » Rules

Subject: Workers Combat rss

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Tom McGreevy
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It looks like I can move workers into combat with a Mech. That means if I lose, the opponent would lose popularity from those workers. Is this correct?
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Tiago Soares
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He won't lose any popularity if you initiate the attack and bring the workers with your combat units.

You lose popularity if you win the combat and force any work to retreat.
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Adria D
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No. Only the attacker can lose popularity from sending workers home. You can't make other players lose popularity by having your mech bring workers with them into combat.
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Jamie Specht
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Nice thought, though. I hadn't considered that scenario.

It would be funny if you lost popularity for bringing the workers into a known battle!
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Tom McGreevy
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Are we saying that if you bring workers when you attack and lose, you lose popularity?
 
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Eric Hogue
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BigMacRepair wrote:
Are we saying that if you bring workers when you attack and lose, you lose popularity?


No, the attacker only loses popularity by making a defending worker retreat.
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Jamey Stegmaier
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Tiago, Adria, and Eric are correct. See here (page 23):

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Doug Stewart
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Frankly, I'm looking forward to the variant cards to address just this issue. I feel like in Core Scythe, it's too low stakes for the defenders much of the time. If they stood to lose popularity for being sent home, they might fight harder for every hex.
 
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Jamey Stegmaier
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Doug: Originally it was the case that either opponent lose popularity for workers in combat, but it really, really did not work. It led to the obvious strategy of putting a bunch of workers on a mech, moving them into combat, then intentionally losing, which was really frustrating for playtesters. It also wasn't thematic.

I think the stakes are actually equal for any player--staying on the territory and getting a star is a big deal. What you might be saying is that because attackers win ties, defenders may feel like they don't have a chance. Perhaps in your group, attackers always spend the amount of power and combat cards to ensure that they win, but by doing so, they're distancing themselves from getting a star for 16 power. Once they start to consider that star, it opens up a guessing/bluffing game between attacker and defender.

There are no variant cards in an expansion that impact combat, at least not globally (a few airships offer an advantage in combat, but not just to the defender)--are you referencing a fan variant?
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Doug Stewart
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jameystegmaier wrote:
I think the stakes are actually equal for any player--staying on the territory and getting a star is a big deal. What you might be saying is that because attackers win ties, defenders may feel like they don't have a chance. Perhaps in your group, attackers always spend the amount of power and combat cards to ensure that they win, but by doing so, they're distancing themselves from getting a star for 16 power. Once they start to consider that star, it opens up a guessing/bluffing game between attacker and defender.


I've run into this primarily after winning a combat, particularly on the Factory. Unless it's VERY close to end-game, the temptation is to go all-in on an attack (max power, largest card/cards) and take the objective/Factory card/combat star. This generally leaves one in a weakened state and, since you've already accomplished what you were looking to do, you as the defender will generally just wager 1 Power and a no-card bid and be sent packing. I feel like it really lowers the stakes for the second combat, especially if the defender has their Mine deployed (or Flags, or Traps, etc.) allowing easy movement back to the center for a final combat for the Factory at end-game.

jameystegmaier wrote:
There are no variant cards in an expansion that impact combat, at least not globally (a few airships offer an advantage in combat, but not just to the defender)--are you referencing a fan variant?


Must be, and I must be confused, as I saw some *very* professional-looking cards recently, one of which had a variant where defenders lost a Popularity per worker sent home. I'll see if I can find it.
 
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Jamey Stegmaier
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That's a fan variant made by someone with graphic design skills. It's on Facebook.
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Doug Stewart
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jameystegmaier wrote:
That's a fan variant made by someone with graphic design skills. It's on Facebook.


Ahh, that's the ticket! That's where I've seen it.

...Too late to argue plaintively for such a variant in the expansion? *grin*
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James Hyde
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Not sure why no one has mentioned it but the rules state that you cannot move workers onto a territory with enemy units on, hence why the rules don't address what happens if a defender sends workers back to base, since t is impossible for them to do so.
 
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Adria D
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Jamesrhyde wrote:
Not sure why no one has mentioned it but the rules state that you cannot move workers onto a territory with enemy units on, hence why the rules don't address what happens if a defender sends workers back to base, since t is impossible for them to do so.

While workers alone cannot enter enemy territory, workers can be carried into battle by a mech. The situation asked about is one in which combat is initiated by a mech carrying one or more workers.
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