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Subject: Score Comparison: Delta from Leader rss

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Dwsparks
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Just for fun I thought I'd upload a graph of my 5-player game scores, showing how far everyone is behind the leader per game. I think it's an interesting way to show the spread, and how far ahead/behind people are.

I'd be interested in seeing other people's graphs as well. How do your scores differ from ours?



Obviously we were pretty well grouped until game six, when
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Patmos emerged from the mists punishing us all.


And now by game eleven, the grind is really kicking in and people are getting rather discouraged. There is talk of quitting, and I can't blame them.

A note about the Leader (whose score at the end of game 11 is 154) - he got 3 of 4
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Veteran upgrade stickers, and has dominated since.
Now his lead seems insurmountable.
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Darren Nakamura
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Here's ours.



Things started out relatively close, with a lot of shifting of positions.

Box 4

Spoiler (click to reveal)
We discovered Patmos in Game 5, and it hit Blue and Gray the hardest. Blue was able to pivot. Gray hasn't really recovered since.


Box 3

Spoiler (click to reveal)
We opened Box 3 and discovered Tombs in Game 8. Purple has been the most fortunate with his Tomb exploration, finding three Relics and two Tablets to date. For comparison, Red found one Tablet, Gray hasn't found any, Green hasn't found any, and Blue has found two Relics.


Box 5

Spoiler (click to reveal)
We discovered Arados during Game 10. Most of our Tombs were closed this game, so those of us behind caught up a little bit. Green was able to capitalize on some of the new Milestones. But then the most recent game had Purple finding two Relics and nobody else finding anything in the newly opened Tomb.


EDIT: Interesting note about our campaign. I (Green) am the only player to have held all five title cards. I had the Princess title during Game 1, Countess during Game 2, Duchess for Game 3, Baroness for Games 4 through 6, Lady during Game 7, then Countess again from Game 8 onward. Nobody else in my game has changed titles as much.

EDIT 2: Since I took the time to enter this data, I played with it a little bit. I like this chart a little better:



It tells the story of some games better. Where the delta from the leader shows big drops at Game 8 and Game 11 for the lower people, the delta from the average shows what is really happening: huge jumps for the leader. It also illustrates Purple's huge jump during Game 7, which isn't as obvious in the earlier chart because the leader was changing hands so the deltas from the top for the other players wasn't changing much.
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Claire Postlethwaite
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Oo I like this I'm going to do it with our data tomorrow...
 
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Des T.
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Where are you getting these cool graphs from?
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Google Docs. Make a spreadsheet with your campaign data, then make a chart from it. Microsoft Excel would work too.
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Alex Box
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We're playing tonight hopefully so I'll make a note of the data points and do the same. We've had one leader from the beginning just get further and further away.
 
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Des T.
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Dexter345 wrote:
Google Docs. Make a spreadsheet with your campaign data, then make a chart from it. Microsoft Excel would work too.

Thank you!
 
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Simon C
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This was our campaign - we found the Island at the End of the World after a pretty quick 12 games.

As can be seen from the first graph, we stayed relatively tight for most of the campaign, with a max of 15 points between first and last place across the first 10 games. However, despite a sterling performance from Green (yours truly) in the third quarter of the campaign, the last stretch was just a runaway consolidation of Red's lead.



The "delta-from-averages" graph highlights my progress from an abysmal start even better, so I'm a fan of this one!



Small sample size so far, but the shapes are somewhat similar - in particular the wildly diverging lines for the last few games. The bonuses you can get late-campaign definitely appear to be (and felt) on the strong-to-the-point-of-campaign-winning side...
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FirstName LastName
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We're in Game 8 with Boxes 1-5 unlocked:

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Miguel Gonzalez
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The graphs so far give me the impression of really shitty balance and thus experience throughout the games and we're only 3 games in and I already feel this imbalance happening, since it seems nigh impossible to catch up with the leader - who btw. not only managed to get the majority of the milestones - he is also the only one to have actually fun putting stickers somewhere on the board or naming stuff, while the rest just watches and while it was fun at first it has now turned quickly into -

meh, can't have a chance except for pure luck to make maybe one milestone. And this really breaks my heart since the game looks so gorgeous to my eyes and I was really excited about the experience and even though we are a storytelling heavy group, the "game" just drags you down. The catch up mechanics do not seem to make much of a difference - and if it did, so I could possibly win the campaign in the last third or quarter of the game, it means I've been missing out on most of the fun for about 66% of the time.

Leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. Sadly...
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Darren Nakamura
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Poor Purple.
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T McC
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In our campaign, the person who spent probably the first 10 or so games in last or second-to-last place came back and won it all by Game 16.

Of course, no one cared at that point because we were all sick of this slogging, vaguely written, no-fun game, but still...comebacks can happen.
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Dwsparks
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thinman13 wrote:
In our campaign, the person who spent probably the first 10 or so games in last or second-to-last place came back and won it all by Game 16.

Of course, no one cared at that point because we were all sick of this slogging, vaguely written, no-fun game, but still...comebacks can happen.


I'd love to see a graph of that, because we're not seeing any persistent bonuses due to the "rubber banding". I mean, if you're purple and 40 glory behind the leader at the beginning of a game, the starting gold is supposed to help you catch up.

Anyone else got a good example of rubber banding actually working?

And as for your second point, my graph seemed to reinforce the idea that the leader was immeasurably ahead, and we all agreed to stop slogging through to get to the inevitable. Campaign killer! yuk

Edit: Here's a delta from average chart. Same bad news, slightly different view.

 
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Charles Waterman
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I'd be curious to see each groups charts of players saying "I had a great time and I'm looking forward to the next game" chart. Might be very different from the who's winning by how many points chart.
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Scott Hall
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8 games in, we're still having fun. I'm red- I won the first game, lost to green in the second (with purple 1 point behind green, tying me overall). I won in game 3, then green went on a two game streak while I could not do anything- milestones and other glory bonuses ended the game so early I'd only managed to pick up 5 and 4 points in those games.

Then our green player dropped out. We brought in a replacement player, who never got the hang of it, and decided to drop after game 7 (Blue and I tied in game 6, with her taking the win as the lower ranked player). I won game 7, with a lucky exploration giving me an extra glory, with blue and purple 1 point behind. Finally, game 8 was Purple's first win, with blue a point behind.

One thing this doesn't show- Purple has only won a single game, but he's completed the most milestones at 6- I've done 4, blue has 2, and grey hasn't earned any.

If green's original player hadn't dropped, she might have continued dominating the game. But, without her, things have really tightened up- I'm in 3rd place, but by 3 points. Life is rough for grey, but she is picking up three bonuses in the next game.
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Claire Postlethwaite
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Here's our graph (four players), 10 games in, five boxes open. We're still all having fun, and looking forward to the next game (I think!)



And the difference from the mean:



I'm purple. I feel like I should be doing well - I have 3 of the veteran stickers (missing the explore one, dammit), but although I'm not far from the top I haven't won a huge number of games (just one or two I think). Red has two awesome relics and seems to be on a roll - I think I might be stealing one of those next game....
 
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Simon C
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srhall79 wrote:


8 games in, we're still having fun. I'm red- I won the first game, lost to green in the second (with purple 1 point behind green, tying me overall). I won in game 3, then green went on a two game streak while I could not do anything- milestones and other glory bonuses ended the game so early I'd only managed to pick up 5 and 4 points in those games.

Then our green player dropped out. We brought in a replacement player, who never got the hang of it, and decided to drop after game 7 (Blue and I tied in game 6, with her taking the win as the lower ranked player). I won game 7, with a lucky exploration giving me an extra glory, with blue and purple 1 point behind. Finally, game 8 was Purple's first win, with blue a point behind.

One thing this doesn't show- Purple has only won a single game, but he's completed the most milestones at 6- I've done 4, blue has 2, and grey hasn't earned any.

If green's original player hadn't dropped, she might have continued dominating the game. But, without her, things have really tightened up- I'm in 3rd place, but by 3 points. Life is rough for grey, but she is picking up three bonuses in the next game.


That looks like she should be getting 4 bonuses next game: you get one bonus for every 5 points behind the leader, rounded up - so 1-5 points gets 1 bonus, 6-10 gets 2, and 16-20 should be 4 bonuses. Are you giving the correct number of bonuses? That would certainly not help with the catch-up mechanics!
 
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Alex Box
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I apologise for my terrible chart making skills, but as you can see the lead player has been the lead player since the very beginning and just keeps increasing their lead.


 
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Dwsparks
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montebanc wrote:
I'd be curious to see each groups charts of players saying "I had a great time and I'm looking forward to the next game" chart. Might be very different from the who's winning by how many points chart.


The joke in our group was that the chart with the increasingly larger negative deltas was "your continued interest in playing this game".

Alex Box - That chart doesn't look good for anyone, especially being sixty points behind the leader. Are you still having fun? Why are you still playing!?
 
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Becq
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Perhaps for some, winning isn't everything?

I placed third of four in my campaign, but still enjoyed the campaign.
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Alex Box
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dwsparks wrote:
montebanc wrote:
I'd be curious to see each groups charts of players saying "I had a great time and I'm looking forward to the next game" chart. Might be very different from the who's winning by how many points chart.


The joke in our group was that the chart with the increasingly larger negative deltas was "your continued interest in playing this game".

Alex Box - That chart doesn't look good for anyone, especially being sixty points behind the leader. Are you still having fun? Why are you still playing!?


The leader has won every single game except two, I think and came second in both of those by a small margin. I'd say we are still enjoying ourselves despite the constant rule re-readings in every single game mainly because of the narratives we've created around the various happenings. And, at the end of the day, it's a just nice to spend time with these people in a shared endeavour!

Everyone except the leader seems to get all the bad luck though, like last session for example:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
when I succesfully completed two tombs and received 6 gold, goods I couldn't use because the game was about to end and one fortune for my leader. Whereas the leader picked up a tablet and a relic to add to his extensive collection and eight extra victory points. Oh and the player in last place had just got everything in line to conquer Patmos but the leader ended the game.
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Scott Hall
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LeonardQuirm wrote:

That looks like she should be getting 4 bonuses next game: you get one bonus for every 5 points behind the leader, rounded up - so 1-5 points gets 1 bonus, 6-10 gets 2, and 16-20 should be 4 bonuses. Are you giving the correct number of bonuses? That would certainly not help with the catch-up mechanics!


That'll teach me to post so late. No, we've been playing correctly, I just got it backward in my head when typing. I recall her being upset in the game she finished 20 behind because she grabbed a glory in her last turn- without that, she'd have been 21 behind for another bonus.

The thing we did do wrong for a few games was we missed that curses were counted separate from other damage for ship sinking.
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Colin Marsh
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srhall79 wrote:
LeonardQuirm wrote:

That looks like she should be getting 4 bonuses next game: you get one bonus for every 5 points behind the leader, rounded up - so 1-5 points gets 1 bonus, 6-10 gets 2, and 16-20 should be 4 bonuses. Are you giving the correct number of bonuses? That would certainly not help with the catch-up mechanics!


That'll teach me to post so late. No, we've been playing correctly, I just got it backward in my head when typing. I recall her being upset in the game she finished 20 behind because she grabbed a glory in her last turn- without that, she'd have been 21 behind for another bonus.

The thing we did do wrong for a few games was we missed that curses were counted separate from other damage for ship sinking.


we used to think this way (giving up a victory point for the extra bonus) then we though - would i trade a glory for 3 money? Nope I don't think I would.
 
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colinmarsh wrote:

we used to think this way (giving up a victory point for the extra bonus) then we though - would i trade a glory for 3 money? Nope I don't think I would.

As the one constantly battling another player for 2nd place with the first 18ish ahead, I'm making this decision almost every game.

It really depends on how my first turn next game will look. If those three extra gold allow me to rush a building/upgrade, I'd definitely hold off on the glory, since I'll be getting it next game, where it might actually help win, instead being useless in an already lost game.
 
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A co-worker is in a different 4-player game, and tells me about the last-place player being so far behind that he was getting 30+ gold at the beginning of the later games. Weirdly, this actually helped that player win a few games because he could then afford expensive buildings (well, one building in particular) and really nice ship upgrades (two at one time, with the right Adviser).

But he's still in last place overall, so I really wonder how much the "rubber-banding" works in practice.
 
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