Recommend
5 
 Thumb up
 Hide
7 Posts

Brass: Lancashire» Forums » General

Subject: Question on the Flow and The Complexity of the game rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Louis D
Canada
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Having never played, brass i have a few question

1 - how tough is brass to read, (I'm not talking about font size here)

so, you have learned the rules, you played 1 game already, your starting your second game
how hard is it to see the gears turning, and see moves ( they don't have to be optimal )

for example
- five tribes ( a really simple games ), normally it click's half way into a game, for people switching from, i understand how the movement works, but now I am seeing moves easily ( again, they don't have to be THE BEST one )
- Royals, a nice area control, that has so much cubes, of so many colors, that even after 2-3 plays it's hard at a glance to understand exactly who is wining what
i understand both of these game are WAY lighter than brass, but they are the best example of ... how hard a game can be to read
- Terra mystica isn't hard to read in my mind, once you got the rules down, everything is pretty clear, who can block who, who is wining what majority etc.


2 - how hard is it to learn

some games have a lot of rules, that makes it longer to learn, not really hard.. some game have simple rules but are harder to remember
- example, terra mystica is pretty hard to learn in my mind, how the power bowl works, the cult track on the side, and all the other thing that doesn't really makes sense .. before you start playing
- agricola is a simpler game to learn in my mind, because most thing's makes more *sense*
- concordia, i dont own many euro that easy to learn, ( the ease of learning, dept, ratio of that game is beautiful to see )


3 - how does the game FLOW

again, you have learned the game, and your midway in your first game
.. how oiled is the game behind the rules.
- even if terra mystica is really hard to learn ( again, not because of the quantity, but the nature of the rules ) it flow's really well, so halfway in a game, most people wouldn't be ready to teach it but can play it whit a decent efficiency.
- flow is almost equal to, if i did a flowchart of a turn in brass, how complicated would it look

i really hope my question are clear and thank anyone for taking the time to answer them
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Morten K
Denmark
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
Watch a playthrough and have your questions answered
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
André Silveira
Brazil
Ribeirão Preto
São Paulo
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
LouisDavid wrote:
Having never played, brass i have a few question

1 - how tough is brass to read, (I'm not talking about font size here)

so, you have learned the rules, you played 1 game already, your starting your second game
how hard is it to see the gears turning, and see moves ( they don't have to be optimal )

for example
- five tribes ( a really simple games ), normally it click's half way into a game, for people switching from, i understand how the movement works, but now I am seeing moves easily ( again, they don't have to be THE BEST one )
- Royals, a nice area control, that has so much cubes, of so many colors, that even after 2-3 plays it's hard at a glance to understand exactly who is wining what
i understand both of these game are WAY lighter than brass, but they are the best example of ... how hard a game can be to read
- Terra mystica isn't hard to read in my mind, once you got the rules down, everything is pretty clear, who can block who, who is wining what majority etc.


2 - how hard is it to learn

some games have a lot of rules, that makes it longer to learn, not really hard.. some game have simple rules but are harder to remember
- example, terra mystica is pretty hard to learn in my mind, how the power bowl works, the cult track on the side, and all the other thing that doesn't really makes sense .. before you start playing
- agricola is a simpler game to learn in my mind, because most thing's makes more *sense*
- concordia, i dont own many euro that easy to learn, ( the ease of learning, dept, ratio of that game is beautiful to see )


3 - how does the game FLOW

again, you have learned the game, and your midway in your first game
.. how oiled is the game behind the rules.
- even if terra mystica is really hard to learn ( again, not because of the quantity, but the nature of the rules ) it flow's really well, so halfway in a game, most people wouldn't be ready to teach it but can play it whit a decent efficiency.
- flow is almost equal to, if i did a flowchart of a turn in brass, how complicated would it look

i really hope my question are clear and thank anyone for taking the time to answer them


1- It's really easy. the different colors help a lot to know who is where. You know where and what you can build. You know (to an extent) how much you'll have to pay for your action, etc. (At least for me it is really easy to read the state of the game).
2- It's really easy to learn. They take out the virtual connection of the map and that makes it easier. The difficult part is for people to understand that you may use another players resources and connections. But aside from that, the game has few rounds with few options (5 things you can do on your turn). It's not hard.
3- That would depend on your group. The points are counted only at the end of an age, and the options are vast (where to build, when to sell, etc.). So if your group is AP prone, I think that you MAY have a problem. BUT if you don't suffer from it, the flow is very dinamic, with people blocking each other constantly, and such.

Overall it's a game easy to understand, hard to master. I LOVE it.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
O R
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
“Bugger this. I want a better world.”
badge
"Do not offend the Chair Leg of Truth; it is wise and terrible."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
laucion wrote:
Overall it's a game easy to understand, hard to master. I LOVE it.


I entirely disagree. Brass is a game where I regularly have new players, who know all the rules, stop midgame and ask "So, what am I trying to do again?" and "So, how do you really score points?".

Sure, each rule, taken in isolation, is easy enough to understand, but that says nothing about the game itself. I love brass and I play more complicated games but I think Brass is fairly indirect and opaque. A lot of the motions you are going through are unfamiliar and unlike other board games (which is a plus, but also has a cost).

You don't gather resources and spend them from your inventory, you source them from the board and you need a path to them. You don't upgrade building by replacing them with a better version, you discard buildings you won't have to build in the mandated sequence. You discard cards to conducts actions which sometimes have nothing to do with the card you spent. Etc.

So while I would agree that the Brass rules are reasonably easy to read (although quite dry), the state of the board itself and who's currently winning the game is not easy to read. It's certainly not impossibly hard, but it takes some doing.

Learning the game is also moderately challenging because there are very few parallels you can make between Brass and other games people might have played. I don't really like Via Nebula, but it's a good introduction into the Brass mindset. When someone says "Brass is hard to master", I think it goes a bit beyond that. Brass is initially challenging enough to understand that new player won't be competitive and will play semi-randomly.

I think Brass ends up flowing really well, but that happens 3-4 games in, not in the middle of your first game.

My 2 cents anyways.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
[maˈtiːas]
Germany
Elzach
Baden-Württemberg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lapsus wrote:
I think Brass ends up flowing really well, but that happens 3-4 games in, not in the middle of your first game.
My thoughts exactly. Some might get the hang of it one or two games earlier though.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maarten D. de Jong
Netherlands
Zaandam
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
LouisDavid wrote:
how hard is it to see the gears turning, and see moves ( they don't have to be optimal )

Not very difficult. At least not if I've taught you meeple. Although meant in jest, I cannot emphasise enough that learning the rules well is really more than half the battle in this game. If you teach or are taught by simply reading the rules out loud, you're in for a rough ride. Read: you will need a few games before you see the gears turning. Then comes the really hard part. Playing to win, and ruthlessly exploiting weaknesses in other players' situations.

Quote:
2 - how hard is it to learn

Not very hard... provided you have a good teacher. Speaking from personal experience here: my first two games were arduous, painful affairs because the teachers didn't really know what they were doing themselves. Years later, with a better understanding of what Brass might be about, I bought the game and explained it to those who were with me on those first occasions. Those people immediately demanded a rematch and suggested I bring the game to the following game day. But it did take a few hours' worth of careful study and mental reorganising of what I read beforehand.

Quote:
3 - how does the game FLOW

Pretty nicely... again, provided the game was taught well. In my limited experience only the very end can drag a bit, because you've mostly run out of options and you're just going through a few last motions.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron
Netherlands
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
1. It's not hard to see who has what and who might be ahead'ish in the current state of the game. It is, of course, quite a different thing to figure out who is setting up for a rush to victory from what appeared to be behind. But figuring out what moves are reasonable in order to play competitively against fellow novices doesn't take all that much. Of course you won't be beating an expert player in your third play, Brass is not that kind of game.

2. The general consensus is that it's a bit hard to learn/teach. I disagree, however. It's a very structured game with far fewer quirks and exceptions than most people will have you believe. I find it very logical and have had no trouble teaching it. Note that that doesn't mean people will not make mistakes. And they definitely won't be playing very well in their first game. But learning enough to play without any big issues is no biggie.

3. It flows fantastically. Even if the game takes long, I never notice it. All the elements connect in such a wonderful way that it hardly ever feels like it's bogging down. If anything, it might (as cymric already mentioned) get a bit slow in the last few turns, as the game becomes more and more calculable and people are looking for those last few points.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.