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Horse & Musket: Dawn of an Era» Forums » General

Subject: Trying to decide if I like the tile/counter art rss

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fightcitymayor
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"This is a really weird game, and you’ll find that most people will not want to play this."
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Tiles. In a word: Minimalist.
Plenty of white space, a lot of abstraction, not a lot of ornamentation. And what is represented is done in an almost primitive style. Although not completely atypical of Hold the Line. It might stand out to me because the entire presentation, from box art, to counters, to tiles, all definitely seems to follow this minimalist pattern. Lots of white space, very little decoration or embellishment. A bit sterile, a bit spartan, a bit dry. It's not bad per se, it's just that the effect adds up when it is used in all of the game's various aspects.



I am a sucker for the illustrated counters of HTL and Hold the Line: Frederick's War and will miss them, but I understand with this many different battles it might be difficult to settle on one representative image. Maybe some industrious soul can put together some artistic wizardry and create illustrated counters with renderings of the actual infantry participants instead of just guns & swords.

Still looking forward to it.
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Tom Russell
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fightcitymayor wrote:




Tiles. In a word: Minimalist.
Plenty of white space, a lot of abstraction, not a lot of ornamentation. And what is represented is done in an almost primitive style. Although not completely atypical of Hold the Line. It might stand out to me because the entire presentation, from box art, to counters, to tiles, all definitely seems to follow this minimalist pattern. Lots of white space, very little decoration or embellishment. A bit sterile, a bit spartan, a bit dry. It's not bad per se, it's just that the effect adds up when it is used in all of the game's various aspects.



I am a sucker for the illustrated counters of HTL and Hold the Line: Frederick's War and will miss them, but I understand with this many different battles it might be difficult to settle on one representative image. Maybe some industrious soul can put together some artistic wizardry and create illustrated counters with renderings of the actual infantry participants instead of just guns & swords.

Still looking forward to it.


I like the art, but of course I'd say that. :-) I'm a huge fan of Ilya Kudriashov's work, which is why we keep hiring him. :-) It does seem with this particular project that some folks dig the look a lot, and some folks hate it-- Richard Berg for example has been very vocal about expressing his negative opinion of the look, which I suppose is generally held to be a Berg's prerogative.

You're correct that, with thirteen different color armies (representing 21 separate factions, but that's a whole 'nother bag of apples) and eleven different unit types that it would be prohibitively expensive for us to go with pictures of dudes-- ~140 times too expensive, in fact. (I'm also personally not really fond of dude counters, especially for a game in which a dozen or so units might represent several thousand men.)
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So it goes.
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I personally think that the tile art is lovely, with a certain dash of wabi-sabi about them. Of course I would say that given that I tend to drool over tiles like:



goo
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Aranubis
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I like the tile art more than Hold the Line: The American Revolution (Remastered) and the leader counters are really nice in Horse and Musket. But the original Hold the Line and Frederick's War artworks are superior in my opinion and i really like little soldiers and flags on the table . Therefore i made my own counters

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Sean Franco
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fogus wrote:
I personally think that the tile art is lovely, with a certain dash of wabi-wabi about them. Of course I would say that given that I tend to drool over tiles like:



goo

I also immediately thought of 18XX tiles when I saw the component art.
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Tom Russell
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logopolys wrote:
fogus wrote:
I personally think that the tile art is lovely, with a certain dash of wabi-wabi about them. Of course I would say that given that I tend to drool over tiles like:



goo

I also immediately thought of 18XX tiles when I saw the component art.


If we ever do an 18xx, we're definitely going to ask Ilya to do our tiles.

(We were looking at an 18xx a while back, incidentally, but it wasn't economically feasible. Lots more tiles of course than in H&M, lots of bits, so it'd be a much higher production cost-- and we wouldn't publish an 18xx without getting an official license from Mr. Tresham and paying him his royalty. That royalty, while eminently reasonable, would leave us either with no profit margin or a game with a triple-digit price-tag. Of course, if someone could ever do a true 18xx with 18-36 tiles, we could make it work...)
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Aranubis
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tomrussell wrote:


If we ever do an 18xx, we're definitely going to ask Ilya to do our tiles.

(We were looking at an 18xx a while back, incidentally, but it wasn't economically feasible. Lots more tiles of course than in H&M, lots of bits, so it'd be a much higher production cost-- and we wouldn't publish an 18xx without getting an official license from Mr. Tresham and paying him his royalty. That royalty, while eminently reasonable, would leave us either with no profit margin or a game with a triple-digit price-tag. Of course, if someone could ever do a true 18xx with 18-36 tiles, we could make it work...)


What will happen with the next Horse and Musket Volume?`Looks like there are enough counters for future battles, so the next edition will just be a rule and scenario book?
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John McD
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I like it, my only two thoughts are that the bridge is much more detailed in it's bricks and things than the others. We seem to need a tile that shows a river running through a settlement?
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tomrussell wrote:
If we ever do an 18xx, we're definitely going to ask Ilya to do our tiles.

(We were looking at an 18xx a while back, incidentally, but it wasn't economically feasible. Lots more tiles of course than in H&M, lots of bits, so it'd be a much higher production cost-- and we wouldn't publish an 18xx without getting an official license from Mr. Tresham and paying him his royalty. That royalty, while eminently reasonable, would leave us either with no profit margin or a game with a triple-digit price-tag. Of course, if someone could ever do a true 18xx with 18-36 tiles, we could make it work...)


Well, I'll be the first to snatch up a Hollandspiele 18xx should the day come. Speaking of 18xx's with small tile sets, perhaps Powerrails is an option in that space...
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Sean Chick (Formerly Paul O'Sullivan)
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Fag an bealac! Riam nar druid ar sbarin lann! Cuimhnigidh ar Luimnech agus feall na Sassonach! Erin go Bragh! Remember Limerick! Remember Ireland and Fontenoy!
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Well, I'm afraid it'll have to wait. Whatever it was, I'm sure it was better than my plan to get out of this by pretending to be mad. I mean, who would have noticed another madman round here?
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I do like having art with soldiers in the style of Hold the Line. I could have had that made for Horse & Musket but I declined. These units will have to represents soldiers of different nationalities over time. The gray Saxon units of Volume I will be used as Confederates in Volume II.
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Sean Chick (Formerly Paul O'Sullivan)
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Fag an bealac! Riam nar druid ar sbarin lann! Cuimhnigidh ar Luimnech agus feall na Sassonach! Erin go Bragh! Remember Limerick! Remember Ireland and Fontenoy!
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Well, I'm afraid it'll have to wait. Whatever it was, I'm sure it was better than my plan to get out of this by pretending to be mad. I mean, who would have noticed another madman round here?
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Aranubis wrote:
What will happen with the next Horse and Musket Volume?`Looks like there are enough counters for future battles, so the next edition will just be a rule and scenario book?


Exactly, although likely counters with more Leader units and units needed to create future scenarios, such as more Orange Dragoons.

This is not hard and fast, but here is what I would like to do for Volume II.

Nader’s Campaigns
Golnabad - March 8, 1722
Mehmandost - September 29, 1729
Karnal February 24, 1739

War of the Polish Succession
San Pietro - June 29, 1734
Guastalla - September 19, 1734

Chickasaw War
Ogoula Tchetoka
Ackia - May 26, 1736

Austro-Turkish War (1735-39)
Grocka - July 22, 1739
Stavuchany

War of Jenkins’ Ear
Fort San Lazaro - April 20, 1741

Russo-Swedish War (1741–1743)
Villmanstrand - August 23, 1741

War of the Austrian Succession
Mollwitz – April 14, 1741
Chotusitz – May 17, 1742
Fontenoy – May 11, 1745
Hohenfriedberg – June 4, 1745
Prestonpans – September 21, 1745
Soor – September 30, 1745
Kesseldorf – December 15, 1745
Culloden – April 16, 1746
Lauffeld – July 2, 1747
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Tom Russell
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gittes wrote:

War of Jenkins’ Ear
Fort San Lazaro - April 20, 1741


I mean, really, we could do a whole box of Jenkins' Ear. :-)
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Nick Halme
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Just to weigh in with another opinion, my own preference is a strong dislike of "little men" on counters. I'd go so far as to prefer the look of NATO symbols, but the abstract symbols here are probably a better middle ground for the era (as I think it's a valid aesthetic complaint to say "Hey, this predates NATO symbology!")

Oddly enough, if I had to search for an explanation, I think it's because the illustrations can often only look so good at that size, and my imagination actually does a better job when I have no frame of reference for a number or uniform. So I don't like to see "two guys with red uniforms", I'd rather imagine "British rifle brigade". Otherwise my brain gets stuck imagining that the brigade is really peopled by just those two guys.

So while the scale/style of the game itself still has me doing some research, the art style actually actively appeals to me.
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Aranubis
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Snake726 wrote:
Just to weigh in with another opinion, my own preference is a strong dislike of "little men" on counters. I'd go so far as to prefer the look of NATO symbols, but the abstract symbols here are probably a better middle ground for the era (as I think it's a valid aesthetic complaint to say "Hey, this predates NATO symbology!")


that's a good point.
Also regarding the long time timeframe with changing uniforms and the diversity of different factions a counter can represent, the choice of "simple" counters ares justified.
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