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Star Trek: The Dice Game» Forums » General

Subject: Files Back Up rss

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Carl White
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Well this has proved an interesting little object lesson in hubris.

To provide a little background, when I worked on STtDG and made the files available on the Geek I hadn’t considered getting the game published; I have a full time job that keeps me plenty busy, and I’m well aware that you don’t get into game design for money. This was always just a bit of fun, and something I was happy to share with people for free as a PnP, just as Tony Go did with DSD6, the game that served as the inspiration for STtDG. I was delighted to see positive reviews, as well as more and more people coming up with their own designs for the game, and significantly improving on my original graphic design.

Then I was approached by two publishers in fairly rapid succession. Both expressed an interest in publishing STtDG, and one was pretty confident in obtaining the licence. Almost immediately after that, the game won the Golden Geek. I’ve never had a game published before and the whole thing was tremendously exciting. All in all I was feeling pretty great.

It’s fair to say things have gone a bit south since then.

At one of the publisher's suggestion I took down the PnP files. Almost immediately I began to feel unease at the decision I’d taken. All of the fun community creativity as folks created and shared content was suddenly gone, or at least forced down a less convenient path. And some folks were not impressed by the decision. But I stuck with it.

After positive early conversations nothing much else happened with either publisher for some time; these things run slow it seems. But while in this state of limbo I felt unable to elaborate publicly on where things stood at the risk of potentially compromising those ongoing talks. And my unease at taking down the PnP files grew as time went on.

Early publisher confidence in obtaining the IP slowly evaporated in the face of complete silence from the IP holder (something that will come as little surprise to some on these boards I know; feel free to say I told you so!)

Tony Go, creator of the game that inspired STtDG, made his displeasure with the planned publication of STtDG increasingly clear. Whilst I profoundly disagree with his assertion that the two games are essentially the same, and with what feels like an inference of plagiarism, his criticism of the way I have comported myself stings. To some extent that’s because he is right in some of his criticism; my game does owe an undeniable debt to his, and despite that I did not reach out to him when creating my game or subsequently, which was frankly rude of me.

If I look at how I felt about STtDG before I was approached by publishers and compare that to now, it becomes clear that one thing has changed; I’m no longer finding this remotely fun. Previously I enjoyed reading a lot of friendly and positive forum posts about the game. I enjoyed helping out with rules questions and seeing a little community of fans of the game grow and contribute. Since taking the files down and announcing publication all that seems to have been pretty much killed off and the game has ended up under a bit of a cloud. And now it looks like the IP is probably not going to be forthcoming.

I can’t blame the despondency I now feel on anyone else; I think this is on me; I’m the one who decided to take the files down. No-one had a gun to my head. I’m the one who made decisions before anything formal was in place with the IP holder or signed with a publisher. I’m the one who failed to make contact with Tony and get his understanding and buy-in for my game. The mistakes are mine. That’s fine I guess, as long as I learn from them.

It’s possible something will still happen in terms of publication, either with the Star Trek IP, or perhaps as a rethemed game. But at this point I’ve stopped worrying about it. If it happens, great, if not so be it. What is important, I think is to get my PnP files back up, and give the little community that built up around the game the green light to put up their own files. Looking back, the point at which I pulled the files feels like the point at which the game began to stop feeling enjoyable. So let’s see if that genie will go back in the bottle. No more files getting pulled; whether the game gets published or not I will leave the files up and give others my blessing to create their own.

For any inconvenience or frustration caused I plead a degree of naivete and inexperience, and can only apologise; hopefully this will turn out to be a learning experience, and I’ll do a better job of things in future. Thanks for your understanding.
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Chris Guild
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Please put the files back up! I had just found out about this game a couple days after they were taken down and read all the ensuing drama. I subscribed to this game to see what would come of it and I definitely want to play it! It also takes a big and humble person to make your post and to me that proves you've got heart. It's not like you were an expert in the game publishing field, I'm sure it happens to lots of folks with ideas.
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Michael Weber
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Carl, I had (and still have) loads of fun with your game and I very much appreciate you being open about the situation at hand.

Of course you were hyped up about the idea of getting published (I would have been) and so I think you should not take the taking down of the files too seriously. People will always complain, no matter what.

Heck I still wished I had downloaded the Battle Star Galactica Express files before they were taken down, but I am happy for the author that he DID get published (though as a differntly themed game) and I really keep my fingers crossed that you will get published as well!
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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Bravo!!!

I had found this game just prior to the file removals and am happy you and the files are back.

A lesson to all BGG'rs... when you see files you like, they need to be downloaded as many get pulled for various reasons.
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Mason Weaver
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I hope this experience hasn't put you off designing in general. I love STtDG and will be glad to have all the PnP files back. I continue to play my first edition hand colored version, but I look forward to running PrinterStudio cards for the TAS reskin.
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Barry Zimmerman
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When your hobby becomes your job...

(Love the game!)
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David Reeves
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Carl,

Your contribution to the hobby, solo gaming and space gaming is much appreciated. My children and I liked ST:TDG so much, I had the cards and board professionally printed.

Keep up the good work and please feel free to post any other ideas you may have. We will certainly try them.

David
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Rodrigo Rangel
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Carl,

I am a big fan of this game. I had cards professionally printed, bought custom dice, and had a playmat made for it. I also own Deep Space D-6. While some of the mechanics are similar the games are very different and while I am sorry to hear that your publication is currently not going forward, I am glad you have put the files back up. Overall, I probably paid $40-50 to get the game in the condition I have it and I consider it money well spent. Thanks for creating this game.
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Martin Gallo
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I am both surprised and sorry there was any criticism of the files being taken down. I thought it was the right decision to take them down. I am in support of both games getting "published" as both are terrific fun.

This is a tough business (I know a few game designers and developers and I have edited rules and play tested - Lots to learn still about publishing!) and can be very discouraging. Try to take solace and pride in the facts that the game is popular and there is demand. I am sorry the IP is so tough to get the rights to.
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Joseph Propati
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Bravo Carl, bravo!
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Luke Phillips
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Don't worry you can't keep a game this good down I'm sure
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Jan Horinek
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Carl i am sorry to hear that. I wished you the best.
I am putting the files back up.

EDIT: all files sent and waiting for approval.
ArtsCow links back in a recent post.
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John "Omega" Williams
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Quote:
Early publisher confidence in obtaining the IP slowly evaporated in the face of complete silence from the IP holder (something that will come as little surprise to some on these boards I know; feel free to say I told you so!)


Having been through this multiple times now. Yeah. "I told you so!" but noooo "its just a harmess little IP" he says...

Look on the bright side. Yes. There is a bright side. At least you werent well into production and then the IP rights revoked. That is one of the most damnably frustrating things to have happen short of a publisher ripping you off.

And as noted before. You went about this a-lot nicer than the whole BSG Express fiasco did.

Personal suggestion. Keep an eye on the publisher that asked you to take down the files. Just in case it was a ploy. Unlikely. But doesn't hurt to stay vigilant. I keep tabs on a publisher who refused to pay me for some design help a year or two ago.
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Joseph Propati
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Does anyone have an usable Artscow coupons????
 
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David Griffin
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There is usually one available on the site.
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Joseph Propati
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carbon_dragon wrote:
There is usually one available on the site.


Thanks, I just looked at the top of the screen and there was a coupon!! Saved me almost $12!!!

35OFFSITE
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David Griffin
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The TAS files from Daniel Hensel (Mr_Tricorder) are on Artscow at

http://www.artscow.com/gallery/playing-cards/st-tas-yg0bpww5...

and

http://www.artscow.com/gallery/playing-cards/st-tas-2snw4c8f...
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Carl White
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My colour Artscow files are back up too, listed under the descriptions in the Files section.
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Daniel Hensel
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I have re-uploaded the TAS cards to the file section. They should hopefully be approved shortly.

I will re-upload the 2-page pdf of my version of the board soon. Meanwhile, it has been available as a jpg in the gallery this whole time.
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romall smith
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i was just telling some people about this game. glad its still around
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Eric Pietrocupo
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Is there any way to print the files at home? I can only find the PDF of the rules.
 
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Eric Pietrocupo
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my error, I found the files. The animated series looks even more interesting for a board game.

Don't worry about using other people's ideas to design your own game. This is how creativity works, by reusing 80% of other people's work and adding your own 20%. Exactly what you did here. There is no such game that is 100% new.
 
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Carolyn Choate
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The generosity of the creators here is staggering. It amazes me that we can receive a game like this for free (or for the cost of the supplies to print it out, etc.). Thank you so much for valuing the community so highly.

I printed it out a while ago and didn't realize all this drama was happening. I'm working on putting together a video of my first play through.
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Eric Pietrocupo
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There are many free pnp games for various reasons. I designed a few myself, most of the time they are un publishable for intellectual property reasons. Still only a few of those free games are really worth it.

 
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Aaron Lillibridge
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Are any of the files on cowcow?
 
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