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Subject: House Rule: Tiered treasure decks rss

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Liam Brennan
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Hi all,

I've seen a few people on here talking about the prospect of a tiered treasure deck to avoid situations where people are churning soul after soul to pull cards they can't use without huge amounts of upgrades. I've been through the treasure cards tonight and think I have a bit of a solution.

The treasure deck contains a total of 18 treasure cards that can be used by at least one (sometimes two or three) of the characters by only upgrading your skills to tier 1. So given that, you could have a mini-boss treasure deck and a main boss treasure deck. Before you defeat the mini boss you draw only from the mini-boss treasure deck. This deck consists of the following:

- All 18 of the 'tier 1' equipment cards (spells, weapons etc etc)
- All 4 of the Titanite Shard cards
- 2 Ember cards
- All class-specific treasure cards for each class playing

For a group of four people this gives you a mini-boss treasure deck of 44 cards in total, which is definitely enough to be getting on with. This reduces the amount of useless draws you make and ensures that in the vast majority of instances you'll draw something you need. The class treasures do need a bit more levelling to be usable, but this gives you something to work towards.

When you beat the mini boss, you then draw from the main boss treasure deck. This deck consists of the following:

- All of the remaining treasure cards
- All gem upgrade cards
- 2 Ember cards
- All transposed class treasures
- 5 legendary treasures

I made the mistake of not counting this before I put all my cards back in the box, but at a guess I'd say this gives you a deck of a further 50-60 cards, which seems more than enough to me.

This ensures that when you're still starting out you draw items with lower stat requirements that can actually be used, and later on when you go after the main boss you draw only more advanced treasures with genuine upgrade potential rather than wasting a soul and drawing something crappy. Obviously you still run the risk of drawing something you can't use, but this should work a long way towards reducing the chance of that happening and make sure characters become viable far earlier rather than pounding your head at the treasure deck over and over in the hopes that you'll actually draw something you can use...

Open to criticism, let me know what you guys think. Obviously it increases set up time but I feel the advantages may outweigh the disadvantages, especially if you keep the cards separate when packing the game away.
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Rob Treasure
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Reads well and it certainly needs something like this if you ask me.
 
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anthony
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Can you name the proposed 18?
 
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Marion Sasser
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Just take two sorts of sleeves, ey?
 
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Liam Brennan
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SEGAanNI wrote:
Just take two sorts of sleeves, ey?


Brilliant idea!

CardboardAnt wrote:
Can you name the proposed 18?


I can't I'm afraid, I've packed it all away. It only took me about 5 mins to go through the cards and check though, so shouldn't be too tricky to separate.
 
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Dan Buc
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To help people work this out I've put the info into a google spreadsheet, it also shows the the earliest level tier equipment can be used at and by which character. It's colour coded given the a character set and whether transmuted or legendary set.

Check it here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zs8eZmzGKgLbSP6UTXEz...

My alternative thoughts are the following:

First divide the treasure deck into 3 piles for Tier 1, Tier 2 and Tier 3 gear and shuffle thoroughly. Lists of the Tiers can be found in the spreadsheet

The base items other than the starting gear (Effigy shield, embers, titanite shards and Heal aid) are added to the Tier 1 deck. As per the standard rules Transmuted and Legendary items are not added until after the 1st mini-boss is killed, when you need to, add these to the appropriate deck.

During play when at the bonfire you can buy from any available deck. Tier 1 costs 2 souls, Tier 2 costs 3 souls and Tier 3 items cost 4 souls.

If you draw an ember from a deck shuffle it into next tier’s deck so the embers move up from Tier 1 to 2 to 3 as the game progresses.

Chests now draw from the numbered Tier deck that matches the room's numbered difficulty. But when drawing from the Tier 3 deck only draw 1 card.

To balance the new tier costs for the cards when completing combat successfully the following rewards are given

2 souls per Player Character for level 1 rooms
3 souls per PC for level 2 rooms
4 souls per PC for level 3 rooms

Ember alternative: Consider starting with only 2 embers in the Tier 1 deck as the prior rule changes greatly increase the frequency of embers available, this rule rebalances the difficulty

Shop Alternative: For each tier deck deal 3 face up cards. These are the items available to purchase. Once a card is purchased replace it with a new one from the deck.

Campaign rules note: selling items returns only 1 soul regardless of the tier

Campaign alternative setup: In the first mission only the Tier 1 items are available to purchase. For the 2nd mission add the Tier 2 deck and so forth. This simulates new vendors arriving at the bonfire as you progress.
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Sirio Martini
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The only variant I'm considering right now for campaign mode (which will most likely be the only mode I will play once the expansions are out) is the "Machi Koro Harbor" variant with 10 cards faced up on the table. The price of a single card would be 3-4 souls, maybe more for non-common ones, and every time you buy a card you draw a new one to replace it. Once the boss or mini boss is defeated, reshuffle them in the treasure deck and draw another batch of 10 cards - which will also prevent the issue of recording which cards are out since the death of a boss will most likely coincide with the end of a session. Also, you could do the same after paying 3-4 souls (the price of a common card, I think it's reasonable enough), just to avoid getting stuck with a bunch of completely useless cards.

I like it a lot, simple enough and pretty functional, without the need to organize the deck in any way. The only drawback is the loss of the thrill of drawing cards one by one, I guess. xD
 
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Davide Bellani
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What about drawing 2 cards (instead of 1) then choose one and discard the other?
 
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Liam Brennan
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FoolJester wrote:
What about drawing 2 cards (instead of 1) then choose one and discard the other?


The only issue with that is there's still no guarantee you'll be able to use either. I played a solo game with a Warrior a few days back and I had to draw 6 cards from the treasure deck before I found something I could equip, all the rest were wasted souls
 
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Will Wilkie
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DanBuc wrote:
To help people work this out I've put the info into a google spreadsheet, it also shows the the earliest level tier equipment can be used at and by which character. It's colour coded given the a character set and whether transmuted or legendary set.

Check it here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zs8eZmzGKgLbSP6UTXEz...


Thank you so much for doing this! Was literally about to do this today but I thought I would make a quick check! I'm definitely using a tiered system for the treasure deck from now on for campaign. Makes things a lot fairer gear wise so you're not wasting souls milling the treasure deck to get something useful.
 
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Dan Buc
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FWIW I've written up the rules changes my wife and I are going to play test at this thread, including tiered treasure and some other rebalancing ideas:

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/25793413#25793413
 
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Jared Reeves
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I'm separating my treasure into two decks. I've labeled the outside sleeves with yellow dot stickers, and blue dot stickers, for ease of setting up the separated decks. I put all the titanite shards in the Yellow deck (low tier), and took out all the gems completely. Instead, every treasure chest you open, you will draw from a third deck, made up entirely of upgrade gems. This is thematically more appropriate, and actually makes both decks equal in size. I looked at the Starting gear table and the Tier 1 table that was posted by Dan Buc to create the low tier "yellow" deck. Everything from the Tier 2 and Tier 3 columns is in the blue deck. I just figure when I play, we can have the option of choosing which deck to buy from, knowing what our stats are.
In addition, I like keeping the rule of doubling souls and halving sparks. It just gets rid of a lot of grind time, and allows for more of the fun part- deciding where to spend souls and upgrading your character to use great gear.
It seems with RAW rules, it's 2.5 hours just to beat the miniboss. I'd like to see the game under 3 hrs for beating the main boss. Hopefully these changes will make a difference.
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