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Subject: Terraforming Mars just passed Scythe on Strategy listing rss

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Örjan Almén
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Terraforming Mars just advanced one step further up the Strategy ranking of BGG, passing Scythe.

https://boardgamegeek.com/strategygames/browse/boardgame?sor...
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Daniel Mahdavi
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It's still a few places up on the overall rankings list. How are the ratings calculated for a "Type" like Strategy?
 
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Geoff Speare
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:insert obligatory component quality joke here:
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As much as I love TM, I still see this game being more tactical than strategic...can't believe it passed games like Agricola.
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DanielMahdavi wrote:
It's still a few places up on the overall rankings list. How are the ratings calculated for a "Type" like Strategy?

I have wondered this too. Obviously there is a different formula. Perhaps fewer dummy votes on the strategy ranks?
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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Drugo81 wrote:
As much as I love TM, I still see this game being more tactical than strategic...can't believe it passed games like Agricola.
There's an implicit judgement there that "strategy is better than tactics". I'm not sure why you think that. Why is a game that's primarily tactical worse than a game that's primarily strategic? I'm looking for an answer other than "I like strategy more than tactics".


Regardless, I wouldn't interpret ratings as some measure of which games are better so much as which games people like more.

In my gaming groups one person I know owns Scythe and it hardly ever gets played. I know at least four other people who own Terraforming Mars and it has gotten played at almost every gaming event I've been to for months now. I've personally played it 38 times this year. It's clearly much more liked in my circles than Scythe.
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Sam Carroll
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Talmanes wrote:
DanielMahdavi wrote:
It's still a few places up on the overall rankings list. How are the ratings calculated for a "Type" like Strategy?

I have wondered this too. Obviously there is a different formula. Perhaps fewer dummy votes on the strategy ranks?


Exactly. The subgenres have fewer dummy votes factored in, based on the number of ratings in them. This means that the game ranks will be somewhat scrambled compared to the overall ranking - it's more noticeable in the Wargames subforum.
 
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Thunkd wrote:
There's an implicit judgement there that "strategy is better than tactics". I'm not sure why you think that. Why is a game that's primarily tactical worse than a game that's primarily strategic? I'm looking for an answer other than "I like strategy more than tactics".


Regardless, I wouldn't interpret ratings as some measure of which games are better so much as which games people like more.

In my gaming groups one person I know owns Scythe and it hardly ever gets played. I know at least four other people who own Terraforming Mars and it has gotten played at almost every gaming event I've been to for months now. I've personally played it 38 times this year. It's clearly much more liked in my circles than Scythe.


I'm not implying that strategy is better than tactics at all, I was just commenting on TM raising in the Strategy rankings. I do think that a game like Agricola (and even Scythe) is more strategic than Terraforming Mars.
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Sam Carroll
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Thunkd wrote:
Drugo81 wrote:
As much as I love TM, I still see this game being more tactical than strategic...can't believe it passed games like Agricola.
There's an implicit judgement there that "strategy is better than tactics". I'm not sure why you think that. Why is a game that's primarily tactical worse than a game that's primarily strategic? I'm looking for an answer other than "I like strategy more than tactics".


I would guess that Drugo81 sees that the list is titled "strategy games," and thus expects the games on said list to be heavily strategic.

One of the little secrets of BGG is that "Strategy games" doesn't actually mean strategy games, it means Euros, or Heavy Euros, if you prefer. And "Thematic Games" is what used to be called Ameritrash, before the term raised a huge storm of controversy.
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spartax wrote:
One of the little secrets of BGG is that "Strategy games" doesn't actually mean strategy games, it means Euros, or Heavy Euros, if you prefer. And "Thematic Games" is what used to be called Ameritrash, before the term raised a huge storm of controversy.


Ah! Thanks for clarifying that

It's maybe time to change the ranking names then? lol
 
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Andreas Krüger
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You can vote on which game should be in which "type". On the game page, right hand of the description, there is a small box called "Classification". Click on the small graphic button to the right of the type list and then participate in the poll if you want to.

Which of the following BEST characterizes this game?
Abstract Strategy Games (like Chess or Go)
Customizable Games (CCGs, CMGs, LCGs, etc)
Thematic Games (emphasis on narrative)
Family Games (fun for kids and adults)
Children's Games (best for younger kids)
Party Games (few rules, lots of laughs)
Strategy Games (more complex games)
Wargames (conflict simulation, etc.)

Note that there is no type category for tactical games :-).
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Thamos von Nostria wrote:
You can vote on which game should be in which "type". On the game page, right hand of the description, there is a small box called "Classification". Click on the small graphic button to the right of the type list and then participate in the poll if you want to.

Which of the following BEST characterizes this game?
Abstract Strategy Games (like Chess or Go)
Customizable Games (CCGs, CMGs, LCGs, etc)
Thematic Games (emphasis on narrative)
Family Games (fun for kids and adults)
Children's Games (best for younger kids)
Party Games (few rules, lots of laughs)
Strategy Games (more complex games)
Wargames (conflict simulation, etc.)

Note that there is no type category for tactical games :-).

Also, this classification is entirely user determined. If two classifications get enough user votes, the game will appear on both lists. For example, several games in the top 100 are ranked in both strategy and thematic categories.
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Don Smith
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orjanalmen wrote:
Terraforming Mars just advanced one step further up the Strategy ranking of BGG, passing Scythe.

https://boardgamegeek.com/strategygames/browse/boardgame?sor...


About time. Scythe is bloated crap.
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Patrick G.
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Well that's good. At least it's a good game and not a soulless euro in Ameritrash clothing. Although I do wish TM's components were half as nice.
 
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Victor Ferreira
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corkysru wrote:
a soulless euro in Ameritrash clothing.

I'm kind of new to this terminology, but that sounds like an odd thing to say if you're trying to hate on the game. If the mechanics are balanced and streamlined like a "soulless euro" but it's heavily themed like "Ameritrash", then that sounds like the best of both worlds.

Either way, not sure why we have to bash other games to appreciate that Terraforming Mars is doing well. I enjoy them both very much, and even if I didn't there's no reason to be a hater.
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Bryan Thunkd
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Twilight_Sonata wrote:
corkysru wrote:
a soulless euro in Ameritrash clothing.

I'm kind of new to this terminology, but that sounds like an odd thing to say if you're trying to hate on the game. If the mechanics are balanced and streamlined like a "soulless euro" but it's heavily themed like "Ameritrash", then that sounds like the best of both worlds.
While Ameritrash games are often heavy on theme, I view the core principle of Ameritrash games to be creating dramatic experiences. So having an epic battle with fifty dice (a bit of an exaggeration) or the game coming down to a key random event which regardless of which way it swings will make the players holler either in excitment or despair and be a story they'll retell about the time that Pete destroyed his opponent (or completely self-destructed).

Ameritrash players tend to view Eurogames with their focus on interesting mechanisms as lacking in excitement and failing to create an exciting experience, but that's only in part because the theme fails to involve them in the narrative of play, and mostly because the mechanisms of Eurogames lead to a much more "puzzle it out" type of play that they find doesn't engage them as much. I am much more the Eurogamer, so I tend to prefer that style and view it as a much subtler, deeper and esoteric experience.

Twilight_Sonata wrote:
Either way, not sure why we have to bash other games to appreciate that Terraforming Mars is doing well. I enjoy them both very much, and even if I didn't there's no reason to be a hater.
Well, the thread specifically pit Scythe and TM against each other. It's hardly unfair for someone to contrast the games, and state a preference for one over the other.
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Patrick G.
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Twilight_Sonata wrote:
corkysru wrote:
a soulless euro in Ameritrash clothing.

I'm kind of new to this terminology, but that sounds like an odd thing to say if you're trying to hate on the game. If the mechanics are balanced and streamlined like a "soulless euro" but it's heavily themed like "Ameritrash", then that sounds like the best of both worlds.

Either way, not sure why we have to bash other games to appreciate that Terraforming Mars is doing well. I enjoy them both very much, and even if I didn't there's no reason to be a hater.

I never said it was heavily themed like ameritrash. I said it was in ameritrash clothing.

Imagine the most boring woman in the world wearing the sexiest thing you can imagine.(or pick you gender.. whatever you get the point) Sure it sounds like fun... but once you start you realize what you got yourself into and regret it.

It just doesn't work right.
Plus it was put forth as a 4x game. Which it is not(if you want to debate that find one of the numerous threads about it). It's not balanced and streamlined. It's a rush to end the game. It's not satisfying to win or lose. All the fancy dressing up in the world can't help it.
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Victor Ferreira
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Thunkd wrote:
Twilight_Sonata wrote:
Either way, not sure why we have to bash other games to appreciate that Terraforming Mars is doing well. I enjoy them both very much, and even if I didn't there's no reason to be a hater.
Well, the thread specifically pit Scythe and TM against each other.

Eh, I didn't really see it like that. I saw it more like "Reviews of Guardians of the Galaxy 2 are saying it's even better than the first one!". Like, that's not bashing the first one, and indeed is predicated on the opinion that the first one was very good. It's just getting excited about the second.

Haters gonna hate though. =P
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Patrick G.
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Twilight_Sonata wrote:

Haters gonna hate though. =P

Damn right they will.
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Well, one thing's for sure: I definitely prefer playing TM over TM
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Florian Ruckeisen
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Well, if the ratings reflect how much I enjoy playing a game and how willing I am to play it at any given time - and that is pretty much verbatim what the 0-10meeple tooltips describe it as - then TM surpassing Scythe matches my personal preference in that regard.

I backed Scythe on KS, I got its fanciest edition, received it in August 2016 and was quite satisfied with it after playing it a few times - although I did find it on the brainburn-y side as you don't really have many actions over the course of a full game, so need to do your darndest to optimize the hell out of them.

In came TM at Spiel 2016 (so a good 2 months later), which I also had had on my radar for a long time. Long story short, both myself and almost all players in my various playgroups strongly preferred TM over Scythe before long, so Scythe hasn't seen the table for almost half a year at this point.

Which is a bit of a pity for Scythe, as I do like that game, but - gotta terraform dat Mars, man!
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Don Smith wrote:
orjanalmen wrote:
Terraforming Mars just advanced one step further up the Strategy ranking of BGG, passing Scythe.

https://boardgamegeek.com/strategygames/browse/boardgame?sor...


About time. Scythe is bloated crap.


I totally agree with that. I think it's been pushed ahead for the glorious artwork and the miniatures... but then the map is ugly and nonsensical.
The detailed mech miniatures are just eye candy... the combat system is very abstract and straithforward (which is not necessarily bad, but why then the over detailed miniatures different for each faction, if indeed the mech are all the same).

TFM is totally a superior game in every aspect except for component quality (the artwork is good enough)
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Thomas
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Don Smith wrote:
orjanalmen wrote:
Terraforming Mars just advanced one step further up the Strategy ranking of BGG, passing Scythe.

https://boardgamegeek.com/strategygames/browse/boardgame?sor...


About time. Scythe is bloated crap.


I agree, take away the layers of chrome that's masking a mediocre game it would be in the clearance pile right now.
 
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Chris Ruf
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All in favor of filing the topic of this thread under the category of SO WHAT?
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Geoff Speare
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