Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
14 Posts

Glory to Rome» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Imperium always ends in a forum win? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Andrew
United States
Kansas City
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
I made a PNP of the black box, and for the first plays I only ordered republica -- I figured we weren't ready for cut-throat GTR yet, and we enjoy the base so much (yes, I know imperium is technically the 'original'). Finally, with 20 some plays, I ordered the imperium cards to match my PNP, and we gave it a whirl. We've now played it three times, and I'm a bit disappointed.

The good
Pool regulation is much stricter, jacks aren't nerfed and are fought over in a 5p game -- a lot!
Some buildings completely swing from lousy to great. New replacement buildings are all good...with one exception.

Freaking Forum, man. All three times we've played, the forum has taken the win. While this is fine, and legal, it also takes the sails out of a merchant or legionary-heavy strategy. Unless all players go for a forum, which will leave people out in the cold assuredly, as there are only three copies.
We've regulated the pool, but for example, in our last game the winner had a building where he could put clients onto his board from his hand -- what can we do about that? There was a prison in construction but that's not an easy building to complete quickly.

I'm just a little bummed that forums have been so powerful in our first plays of this game. I understand that we're adjusting from republica so maybe we need to make our pool play even tighter, but a GTR where the only good strategy is the forum is no fun for me -- we'll just go back to republica.

Our group has discussed replacing the forum with the forum romanum, and playing with all other Imperium rules -- this would make the forum victory harder but keep everything we like about the pool and the jacks.

Thoughts? What are we doing wrong? Is this how GTR was designed?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wakefield Morys-Carter
United Kingdom
Oxford
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I only play Imperium and I've rarely experienced the game ending with a Forum (but sometimes I've seen someone working towards it).

Are you limiting the number of clients to your influence? Even with the right cards it takes time to get a Forum win, by which point other players should be close to ending the game on more points.

If you pick up the Forum early on then you either have to put it on a site (which will declare your intention) or keep it in your hand for later, effectively decreasing your hand size by one.

If someone starts a Forum too early then it's usually pretty easy to control the pool to limit what clients are available. Yes, there are cards that allow clients from the deck or hand but they'd need to be completed first. Also, opponents could steal the power, or make it available to all players.

If you think someone might be hiding a Forum in their hand avoid leading patron, try to end the game earlier by other means or legionary and demand marble.

The problem with the Forum is usually because new players get surprised
by it. That and the Catacombs should always be specifically mentioned as unusual game enders. When someone starts or completes a building they should declare the name of the building (and if necessary the powers) aloud so that all players are aware.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pete Goch
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Coliseum can put a serious damper on a Forum win.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wakefield Morys-Carter
United Kingdom
Oxford
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TheOneTrueZeke wrote:
Coliseum can put a serious damper on a Forum win.


My wife recently had a storming win in a four player game with a Coliseum/Bridge combo where she had also been lucky enough to take most of the Walls out of play as well.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hunter Bennett-Daggett
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I suspect that there is an element of group-think going on here, since people are somewhat new to the game or at least this version of it. For comparison, I've played GtR 183 times now. I would estimate that at least 170 of those plays are playing Imperial rules and that of those no more than 10 have ended with a forum victory. As others have said, it takes time to rack up the needed clients, and while it's not always possible to directly stop the forum-player, it is often possible to accelerate the end of the game in others ways (generally just by building a lot). In general the forum-player probably has less points since they're focusing on getting clients, so a "standard" game end will mean a loss for them.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew
United States
Kansas City
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
We were pretty close to the standard end of the game -- maybe 30ish cards left in the deck? Of course, that goes pretty quick. I can also see how groupthink plays in. Colisseum is a valid building, but of course, it's only as common as the forum itself so card distribution plays a factor.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pete Goch
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Plain old legionary is also a good defense if the Forum builder is pulling clients from his hand. Just legionary out the needed card type.

You should be wondering whether or not anyone has a Forum in hand once they get a good variety of clients and start acting against that player. Balance in this game is largely in the hands of the players. It may take a bit of collusion to get that balance.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew
United States
Kansas City
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
We have a solid balance in Republica (almost always comes from limiting stockpile flow) but are still adjusting to the different feel of Imperium.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wake wrote:
I only play Imperium and I've rarely experienced the game ending with a Forum (but sometimes I've seen someone working towards it).

Are you limiting the number of clients to your influence? Even with the right cards it takes time to get a Forum win, by which point other players should be close to ending the game on more points.

If you pick up the Forum early on then you either have to put it on a site (which will declare your intention) or keep it in your hand for later, effectively decreasing your hand size by one.

If someone starts a Forum too early then it's usually pretty easy to control the pool to limit what clients are available. Yes, there are cards that allow clients from the deck or hand but they'd need to be completed first. Also, opponents could steal the power, or make it available to all players.

If you think someone might be hiding a Forum in their hand avoid leading patron, try to end the game earlier by other means or legionary and demand marble.

The problem with the Forum is usually because new players get surprised
by it. That and the Catacombs should always be specifically mentioned as unusual game enders. When someone starts or completes a building they should declare the name of the building (and if necessary the powers) aloud so that all players are aware.


This would've been my post.

Groupthink, make sure your clientele are being limited by Influence, and you can see Forum coming a mile away.

The average quickest this can work is to get 4 more influence worth of buildings in (so that's 4 Craft/Arch. actions), but then you'd need more turns to refill your hands, and do other things since like take Jacks, or start other structures b/c you won't always have the exact cards for Roles, nor the correct materials to add to your buildings.

By then, it's past mid game (55% to 80% mark in some cases) that others have a decent buildup of VP and engine at that time.

In summation, easier said than done
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Des Lee
Australia
Quakers Hill
NSW
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sounds like it's very much a case of the group not having adjusted to Imperium yet. I played probably my first 5-7 games with Republic, but then learn thte original Imperium rules and now that's my favourite ruleset by far. It's more unforgiving, but I feel that's for the better - I enjoy having to really work to get things done.

In the games I've played, someone will make a Forum play probably 1/3-1/2 of the time, I've only seen it succeed a handful of times.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Elia - "Rainbow Hippie" Acca
Italy
Bergamo
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
losfp's estimates sound right. In my experience forum attempts are not uncommon, but forum wins are quite rare, and generally involve gate.

Sometimes we react to players simply having gate by denying them the clients they lack, just in case they'll draw a forum or already have one.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew
United States
Kansas City
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
We'll keep plugging away! GtR is one of our favorite games and I'm pretty certain it will balance out with time.

A
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
'Bernard Wingrave'
United States
Wyoming
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Colosseum and no in-town sites are how most of our imperium games have finished.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Elia - "Rainbow Hippie" Acca
Italy
Bergamo
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Oh yeah I forgot to mention, we usually play Imperium but we substitute the Colosseum with the domus aurea. Colosseum can undeniably be unfun. Domus Aurea is more interesting too.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.