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Subject: RTL new rulebook rss

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Carsten Summer
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With the last app update 1.3.1 comes an updated rulebook:

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/31/dc...

Did anyone find rule changes or are these only clarifications and a new design ?

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Mark Campo
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concise and all in one place. much nicer
 
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Carsten Summer
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they have changed "trading":

core rulebook
Quote:
Heroes may give or receive Shop Item cards, Relic cards, and Search
cards to or from each other during a move action. At any point during
his move action, a hero may trade any number of Shop Item cards, Relic
cards, or Search cards with an adjacent hero.


rtl new rulebook
Quote:
After a hero performs a move action during his turn, at any time during
that turn
he can freely give, receive, or exchange any number of equipped
or unequipped Shop Item, Relic, and Search cards with a hero in an
adjacent space.


should also be in the faq/errata
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Sadgit
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Let's hope that they consolidate the duration of move action soon.
Seems like a step into the right direction.
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Carsten Summer
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a spoiler for upcoming content ?

old rulebook side quests:
Quote:
The quests are drawn from the pool of side quests that players have unlocked, through their collection of physical products.


new rulebook side quests:
Quote:
The quests are drawn from the pool of side quests that players have unlocked, both through their collection of physical products and in-app content that they have purchased.
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Chris Schenck
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It added 10 pages to the RtL rulebook, going from 15 to 25 pages. The added content is from integrating some elements of the core game (component list, movement and attack rules, index, etc...) into the RtL rulebook.

It's a nice move for new players of RtL that haven't played (or don't want to play) the core tabletop game.

However, players will still ultimately need the CRRG as well as situations come up in play. So I guess it's good that they're giving new players a better starting guide, but I think 25 pages is probably big enough. Any bigger and some of those same new players will be scared off rather than being eased in.
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Aaron Corley

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I hope this means they will be releasing new quests for 'Road to Legend' soon.
 
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Chris B.
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Ted Smythe wrote:
I hope this means they will be releasing new quests for 'Road to Legend' soon.


I second this. I want randomly generated campaigns. Even if it's some template story-line. Random story quests and random-er side quests.

Campaigns for other expansions or re-releases of existing campaigns for core game would be really nice. Not into games with overlords, and I'd love to do heirs of blood.
 
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Bruce
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ogoctopus wrote:
I second this. I want randomly generated campaigns. Even if it's some template story-line. Random story quests and random-er side quests.

I think this is highly unlikely for practical reasons. More content for Delve would be fine (though to be honest I'm pretty happy with it as is.
 
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Sadgit
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I just went through the new RtL rule book. Here are the changes and my comments:

Bare Hands
New RtL rule book; p.6
Bare Hands: A hero without a weapon can still attack with bare hands but only rolls the blue attack die for his attack.

Core box rule book; p.12
The player must also declare which equipped weapon his hero is using. Heroes may either attack with one equipped weapon or their bare hands. A hero attacking with his bare hands can only target an adjacent space and rolls only the blue attack die for his attack.

Comment
The RtL version seems to indicate that bare hands can only be used when no weapon is equipped. So far the consensus within the community was that a hero can choose to attack with bare hands even when a weapon was equipped.

Blast
New RtL rule book; p.6
The attacker rolls his attack dice once and applies the full damage (
) to the target enemy and half of the damage (
) to figures adjacent to that space, rounded up.

New RtL rule book; p.8
When a hero performs an attack that targets or affects multiple monsters, the monsters gain an additional advantage during the “Deal Damage” step. Choose 1 monster to which you will deal damage first and resolve the step as normal. Then halve the
results (rounded up), and apply that value to each of the additional monsters, before applying
.This rule applies to attacks with Blast but also actions such as “Whirlwind,” “Army of Death,” and Leoric of the Book’s Heroic Feat.

Comment
Unfortunately, these rules are contradictory. The section on Blast (p.6) seem to indicate that players cannot choose an affected figure to suffer full
. The latter section (p.8) indicates that players have that choice.

Trading

New RtL rule book; p.9
After a hero performs a move action during his turn, at any time during that turn he can freely give, receive, or exchange any number of equipped or unequipped Shop Item, Relic, and Search cards with a hero in an adjacent space.

Core box rule book; p.15
Heroes may give or receive Shop Item cards, Relic cards, and Search cards to or from each other during a move action. At any point during his move action, a hero may trade any number of Shop Item cards, Relic cards, or Search cards with an adjacent hero.

Comment
This is a good way to deal with an old problem: The end of a move action is not well defined in the rule set, leaving players wondering if trading is possible after the last
of the move action has been spend. In my opinion, the new rule should be used for the core game, too.

Monster attacks

New RtL rule book; p.19
For each surge (
) ability, if that ability will have no effect, or the monster does not have enough surges, skip it. Otherwise, trigger it and continue spending surges (
) in this manner until the monster is out of them, cycling back through the list if necessary until out of surges (
) or if none of the abilities will have any effect.

Old RtL rule book; p.9
If the surge ability is both necessary and effective, spend the necessary surges to trigger that ability. Then, if the monster has additional surges that it can spend, start at the top of the list of surge abilities and repeat.

Comment
So spending
cycles through the list now and does not start from the top.


EDIT: corrected some symbols
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Ugo Perillo
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Sadgit wrote:
I just went through the new RtL rule book. Here are the changes and my comments:

Blast

New RtL rule book; p.8
Then halve the
results (rounded up), and apply that value to each of the additional monsters, before applying
.


Monster attacks

New RtL rule book; p.19
cycling back

Old RtL rule book; p.9
start at the top


I think the shield image is just an error.. it should be a hearth

Don't see any difference between "cycling back" and "start at the top" can you clarify what you see?

Thanks.
 
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Sadgit
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The shield symbol is just my mistake. I will correct it.

The difference is that to cycle you have to go down the list first and use surge further down the list before you cycle to the start of the list again. Starting from the top of the list (old rule) is different in this respect. I think in most cases it does not change things, but for monsters with a lot of surge abilities it might.
 
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Rafal Areinu
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Sadgit wrote:

Blast
New RtL rule book; p.6
The attacker rolls his attack dice once and applies the full damage (
) to the target enemy and half of the damage (
) to figures adjacent to that space, rounded up.

New RtL rule book; p.8
When a hero performs an attack that targets or affects multiple monsters, the monsters gain an additional advantage during the “Deal Damage” step. Choose 1 monster to which you will deal damage first and resolve the step as normal. Then halve the
results (rounded up), and apply that value to each of the additional monsters, before applying
.This rule applies to attacks with Blast but also actions such as “Whirlwind,” “Army of Death,” and Leoric of the Book’s Heroic Feat.

Comment
Unfortunately, these rules are contradictory. The section on Blast (p.6) seem to indicate that players cannot choose an affected figure to suffer full
. The latter section (p.8) indicates that players have that choice.


They are not. p.8 says that you can choose which monster to deal whole damage first, but it doesn't say it deals whole damage to that monster.

Assume that you have Zombie A and Zombie B and do Blast targeting Zombie A. You roll 4 wounds on damage dice. That means you will deal 4 wounds to A and only half of that to B.

Due to section on p.8 you can choose who to deal damage to first. You CAN choose Zombie B. You roll it's shields and it rolls 1. You deal 2 damage - 1 = 1. Then when you go to deal damage to Zombie A you add shields from B/2(rounded up), so 1 shield. Zombie A rolls for defense and it gets 1 shield, so it has 2 shields. You deal only 2 damage to it.

Final result: A - 2 wounds, B - 1 wound.

If you chose to first deal damage to A, then B then you would deal 3 wounds to A and 0 wounds to B(assuming both rolls would still give 1 shield).

So, when you'll have Zombie standing next to monster with 2 black dice don't resolve attacks against 2 blacks first.
 
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Sadgit
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Nope, that's wrong.

Let's assume that the Zombies in your example roll no
.

p.6: Blast deals full damage to Zombie A and half damage to Zombie B. There is no choice as only Zombie A was targeted.

p.8: Players can "choose 1 Zombie to which you will deal damage first and resolve the step as normal" indicates that the chosen Zombie is dealt full damage because that is what happens in standard (=normal) competitive Descent. "Then" all other monsters affected are dealt half damage.

I think this is clearly an oversight by FFG.
 
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Rafal Areinu
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p.8 doesn't say ANYTHING about who is dealt full damage and who is not. It only states who is dealt damage FIRST.

It basically adds additional step for calculating defense. Previously there was no difference in what order you dealt damage, now it has a meaning.

So: Zombie A is a target
You choose to deal damage to Zombie B first.
Zombies roll no shields.

The result is as follows:
1) You first deal 2 damage to Zombie B.
2) Then you deal 4 damage to Zombie A.

Simple. The rule only changes anything if shields were thrown by monster chosen as first.

Let's expand the example.

3 Zombies and a dragon. All adjacent. You target Dragon with your blast. You choose to use Zombie A as "first to deal damage". You roll 5 wounds, so that means target will be hit for 5, while others will be hit for 3.

1) Zombie A rolls 2 shields. It was first to be dealt damage, but WAS NOT a target of blast so it gets halved damage. You deal 3-2 damage to it.
2) You take shields from zombie A, halve it and round up. 1 shield is left.
3) Then you deal damage to all other monsters. Each monster rolls its defense and adds result from 2) so we have:
* Dragon rolled 2 shields and was a target of blast. He gets 5-2-1 wounds.
* Zombie B rolles 0 shields, was not the target of the blast. He gets 3-0-1 wounds
* Zombie C rolled 1 shield, was not the target of the blast. He gets 3-1-1 wounds

So final result:
Zombie A: 1 damage
Dragon: 2 damage
Zombie B: 2 damage
Zombie C: 1 damage
 
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Sadgit
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Your examples are not valid as according to p.6 you do not have the choice to deal full damage to figures that are not targeted. A standard Blast attack targets only one space - all figures adjacent to that space are not automatically targeted - they are merely affected by the attack. It is very important to not mix up those two terms.
 
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Carsten Summer
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the old RTL rulebook has no core rules for blast. There is only a section for "ATTACKING MULTIPLE MONSTERS".

And with these rules the "half the
" only apply to monster figures.

@Sadgit: And so i think the CRRG p. 8 is wrong.

BUT

With the new rulebook comes this new section on p. 6.
So does "half the
" also apply to heroe figues ?

Example:
Runemaster makes a 5
blast attack to a monster with an adjacent monster and an adjacent hero. No one rolls
.

How much damage is dealt to the hero ? With the old rulebook it was 5
in my opinion.

 
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Sadgit
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Great detail. I never realized that. Indeed, I agree with you that according to the old rule book the hero would have been dealt full damage, but I am pretty sure that was not intended. The new version of the rule book now clarifies this aspect: all other figures (including heroes) are dealt only half the damage.

However, in my view the rules on p.6 and p.8 are still in conflict. Do you agree, Carsten? BtW, why do you think the CRRG is wrong? I need to update it as soon as the conflict has been resolved but at the moment it precisely reflects the old rule, right? Do I overlook something here?
 
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Carsten Summer
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Sadgit wrote:
Great detail. I never realized that. Indeed, I agree with you that according to the old rule book the hero would have been dealt full damage, but I am pretty sure that was not intended. The new version of the rule book now clarifies this aspect: all other figures (including heroes) are dealt only half the damage.

However, in my view the rules on p.6 and p.8 are still in conflict. Do you agree, Carsten? BtW, why do you think the CRRG is wrong? I need to update it as soon as the conflict has been resolved but at the moment it precisely reflects the old rule, right? Do I overlook something here?


With the old rulebook the CRRG is wrong an p. 8 Blast/RTL section: It should be "monster figures" instead of "figures" (three times).
For me it always makes sense to "nerf" the blast against the "stupid" RTL monsters and not for heroes. Why should a Lava Beetle half the damage to heroes in RTL ?
However i have send this question to FFG now and will post the answer.

I have no opinion to the other conflict you have found. With blast attacks we have always dealt full damage to the target field.
You should aks FFG.
 
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Sadgit
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Thanks for that! I will correct the CRRG in this respect.

I also agree with you that the new rule book is most likely wrong here. The reduced effectivity of AOE attacks should only be applied to heroes not to monsters. Let's hope FFG clarifies that soon.

I sent another question to FFG support.
 
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thiago k
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Sadgit wrote:
Thanks for that! I will correct the CRRG in this respect.

I also agree with you that the new rule book is most likely wrong here. The reduced effectivity of AOE attacks should only be applied to heroes not to monsters. Let's hope FFG clarifies that soon.

I sent another question to FFG support.


"New RtL rule book; p.6
The attacker rolls his attack dice once and applies the full damage (
) to the target enemy and half of the damage (
) to figures adjacent to that space, rounded up."

Theres two types of aoe effects. The blast effect, when you need target a enemy (obrigatory choice , you need declare the target for that attack, and whem you roll, you get a surge for a blast effect, for example). The target you choose will receive the full damage and the adjacent ones will get the damage reduced.


"New RtL rule book; p.8
When a hero performs an attack that targets or affects multiple monsters, the monsters gain an additional advantage during the “Deal Damage” step. Choose 1 monster to which you will deal damage first and resolve the step as normal. Then halve the
results (rounded up), and apply that value to each of the additional monsters, before applying
.This rule applies to attacks with Blast but also actions such as “Whirlwind,” “Army of Death,” and Leoric of the Book’s Heroic Feat."

The second type, its the "aoe" effect, you can get multiple targets in one attack, like army of death (all enemys in your line of sight, ignoring range). You dont have a initial target, but multiple ones, so you must choose one enemy to receive the full damage, and the others get halfed.


Only monsters can get the damage reduction, not heroes. The rule is for preventing players to exploit the ai behavior or stacking monsters by choice,and kill them quickly with aoe attacks.
 
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Bruce
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kraisto wrote:
Sadgit wrote:
Thanks for that! I will correct the CRRG in this respect.

I also agree with you that the new rule book is most likely wrong here. The reduced effectivity of AOE attacks should only be applied to heroes not to monsters. Let's hope FFG clarifies that soon.

I sent another question to FFG support.


New RtL rule book; p.6
The attacker rolls his attack dice once and applies the full damage (
) to the target enemy and half of the damage (
) to figures adjacent to that space, rounded up.

Theres two types of aoe effects. The blast effect, when you need target a enemy (obrigatory choice , you need declare the target for that attack, and whem you roll, you get a surge for a blast effect, for example). The target you choose will receive the full damage and the adjacent ones will get the damage reduced.


The second type, its the "aoe" effect, you can get multiple targets in one attack, like army of death (all enemys in your line of sight, ignoring range). You dont have a initial target, but multiple ones, so you must choose one enemy to receive the full damage, and the others get halfed.

Only monsters can get the damage reduction, not heroes. The rule is for preventing players to exploit the ai behavior or stacking monsters by choice,and kill them quickly with aoe attacks.

That may (or may not) be the intention, but it isn't consistent in the rules.
 
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thiago k
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BruceLGL wrote:
kraisto wrote:
Sadgit wrote:
Thanks for that! I will correct the CRRG in this respect.

I also agree with you that the new rule book is most likely wrong here. The reduced effectivity of AOE attacks should only be applied to heroes not to monsters. Let's hope FFG clarifies that soon.

I sent another question to FFG support.


New RtL rule book; p.6
The attacker rolls his attack dice once and applies the full damage (
) to the target enemy and half of the damage (
) to figures adjacent to that space, rounded up.

Theres two types of aoe effects. The blast effect, when you need target a enemy (obrigatory choice , you need declare the target for that attack, and whem you roll, you get a surge for a blast effect, for example). The target you choose will receive the full damage and the adjacent ones will get the damage reduced.


The second type, its the "aoe" effect, you can get multiple targets in one attack, like army of death (all enemys in your line of sight, ignoring range). You dont have a initial target, but multiple ones, so you must choose one enemy to receive the full damage, and the others get halfed.

Only monsters can get the damage reduction, not heroes. The rule is for preventing players to exploit the ai behavior or stacking monsters by choice,and kill them quickly with aoe attacks.

That may (or may not) be the intention, but it isn't consistent in the rules.


Ah, sorry, see the problem now, I missed the "figures" word, in p6.
 
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Rafal Areinu
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Sadgit wrote:
Your examples are not valid as according to p.6 you do not have the choice to deal full damage to figures that are not targeted. A standard Blast attack targets only one space - all figures adjacent to that space are not automatically targeted - they are merely affected by the attack. It is very important to not mix up those two terms.


And my examples ARE valid. They DO NOT choose who gets full damage. The targeted figure gets full damage.

They choose who is dealt damage FIRST. You are mixing two different things here.

p.8 rule DOES NOT change anything for Blast rule from p.6. p.8 rule doesn't change who gets full damage, it only adds additional defense rules for monsters.
 
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Sadgit
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Maybe somebody else can explain this.
 
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