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Subject: Is the Master variant even possible to play? rss

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Ravi Bhikhie
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Can someone give me an example of how this plays?
Everyone starts with one less ingredient card, and debunking is more involved. Theories are in jeopardy of being contested, thereby rendering them moot for scoring.

Backing up a bit, the conferences are more demanding so you'll have to take more risks in publishing, leading possibly to more errors and ARGH.

What am I missing here?
 
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Andi Hub
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It is the same for everyone. The game becomes a bit lame, if you by chance publish only correct theories. This will not happen often in the master variant.
 
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David desJardins
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Burlingame
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Iceman_B wrote:
Backing up a bit, the conferences are more demanding so you'll have to take more risks in publishing, leading possibly to more errors and ARGH.


Sounds right. So?
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Philip Morton
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It sounds like you've pretty much got the gist.

If you're new to the game and still polishing your deduction skills--say, if you're focusing on testing and publishing (as opposed to sales and artifacts) and having trouble getting all your point seals out--you maybe don't need the added complication of master mode to make things interesting.

If you (and the other players) have got it all down pat, though, the game gets kind of boring when it's just a pile of correct publishes and maybe one or two debunk-and-immediately-replace-with-correct-theory. The game is a lot more interesting when debunking figures in more heavily. The tougher conferences and fewer starting ingredients push you to publish with imperfect information.
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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A lot of times, it's actually harder to debunk in the master variant, so you can have a wrong publication stay on the board longer and even act as an obstacle to others publishing the right thing.

But the game is harder for everyone - it is a less common occurrence for everyone to fulfill the conference requirements. But that isn't necessarily a bad thing. It just makes the competition more fierce.
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Rue Sailmana
Netherlands
Eindhoven
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The Hedgehog Can Never be Buggered at All
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I love the master variant! Exactly because debunking is harder and all
 
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Matt Smith
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Troy
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I think the OP's post is quite valid. The master game sounds more punishing, with more guessing and higher chance of losing points. The apprentice game is more about solving a puzzle and optimizing your resources/actions, which may appeal to more casual gamers. So just because a group has figured out how to perform the deduction portion of the game doesn't mean they necessarily want the added pressure and punishment of the master version. To each his own.
 
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Shoosh shoo
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Damn right its more punishing! I enjoy the master variant quite a bit. Maybe im just inexperienced but the debunking doesnt seem too intense. Usually the games i play people dont publish theories unless they know theyre correct, and if they're not then its just a matter of debunking and republishing.

It does push u to publish faster though. Ive gotten better at the deduction so i can usually figure things out by rou d 4 (if i can do the right tests).
 
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Harri Kokkonen
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When I first read the rules for the first time I already decided that I would never play the novice(?) version, it just didn't sound fun. And since that I have always played with master variant, and after the first game with starting with only 2 ingredients also. I think debunking is the meat in this game and the easy mode just would not give anything there.
 
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David Hewitt
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If you have four brand-new players and they all play the full master variant, then they're likely to lose points along the way, but victory in the game is determined by how well you do relative to everyone else - so while the scores may be lower, it's perfectly possible to play; it just might feel like some of the goals are out of reach.

I don't ever play with the novice debunking, the master variant is more interesting.

What we do is the following - unless someone is really struggling, then they may get an additional bonus; or if they win they might get less of a handicap than usual next time:

0 plays - Apprentice conference + resources (3 ingredients, 1 pub needed by turn 3)
1 play - Apprentice conference, master resources (2 ingredients, 1 pub needed)
2 plays - Master conference, apprentice resources (3 ingredients, 2 pubs)
3+ plays - Full master

Everyone uses master debunking.

Now that we're using the King's Golem, I'll add in that for the 1st conference regarding progress reports, we'll use the apprentice side if it's their first play with the expansion, and the master side if not and if they have at least 2 plays of the base game. And as the expansion says, if you're using the starting wealth cards, then apprentice resources would be whatever your cards say + 1 additional ingredient.
 
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