Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
30 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Bios: Megafauna (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Mandatory I just read the rules comments/questions thread! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mike Ricotta
Japan
Okinawa
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm sure some of this will become clearer with the actual components...

1) Newborns are not still counted as unborn? ie if I have 2 newborn and 1 unborn my mutate purchasing power is 1 not 3? Thus you would usually mutate before you populate?

2) The setup says that the archetype creeples go on the archetype card but int he picture they are on the newborn card.

3) In the collision example there is a black disc on the bottom of Laurentia that is liberated (moved to the atmosphere track) but the rules seem to say that only the offshore discs in the crash are effected and that other discs should stay. Also it looks like there is a green disc and an orange dome there now where did those come from?

4) I am a little confused on the placement of promoted mutation cards. If I have a completed personality (head and tail) am I not allowed to promote another tail type at all or can I promote one but just not add it to the personality row? Is there a limit to promoted mutations without a personality trait?

5) When you speciate you remove a mutation from the mother to start a daughter, the mother loses any ability on that mutation? Could you start a daughter using a monster icon promotion?

6) In the Kiwi rule it says "If after a resize or speciate" how would you change size during a speciate?

7) In the Populate example the player gets 2 newborns from speciate, how?

8) Re-using the terms mother and daughter in speciate and dispersal is sort of confusing. Could one be changed to parent/child?

9) In the dispersal example it looks like you used an archtype to birth a burrower? Shouldn't the burrower daughter only come from the burrower that got placed at at the end of speciate or is it a one turn thing that you can use either shape as the mother (see also disperse in place)?

10) It looks like there are limitations (horror plant) on the green player, but is there an advantage to being a plant that isn't clear here?

11) Changes from first edition: Nothing can live in the mountains? No invasive species (one of my favorite parts!)? No third place for a burrower, a burrower is just a herbivore or a carnivore like the other types?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Ricotta
Japan
Okinawa
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Please note I didn't see the rules comments on the rule thread as I never made it past the gender discussion at the start of it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rafał Kruczek
Poland
Legnica
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ricottma wrote:


11) Changes from first edition: Nothing can live in the mountains? No invasive species (one of my favorite parts!)? No third place for a burrower, a burrower is just a herbivore or a carnivore like the other types?

I haven't plyed first edition, but this seemed really strange. Table shown in manual has X for all species types for places with black or white disks.
Maybe some card abilities not mentioned in manual allow to live in such circumstances(so called "golden rule"allows card ability trumph the general rule). But since ability (Haustorium) of card 56 get separate glossary and rules entry, such card allowing to live on white/balck disc probably would also be mentioned.
Maybe it is simplification of some sort - endangered species have one round of actions to accommodate to new conditions (either by getting endothermic which allows migration or by increasing population and dispersion) or die.
There is a whole big game on glaciation topic Dominant Species but in completely different scales of time and space covered. And much more detailed. As one herbivore/carnivore contest from Megafauna was a whole 4h game
And in Megafauna this is one rather deterministic (besides refilling mutation cards) one action round.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Franz Derphausen
Germany
Düsseldorf
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
1) Newborns are not Unborns, so yes, acquisition of new mutations comes best before populating.

2) They shouldn't be on the newborn card, because they aren't newborn yet.

3) A collision adds black discs from the atmosphere reservoir to the biomes adjacent to the hex that collided with them. In the illustrated example this means that Sibera(4) and Sibera(5) both receive a black disc - a Disc of Damocles - and this also liberates discs that were there, i.e. the forest in Siberia(5) is gone. However, the orange armoured creeple there should become endangered, not immediately removed. Because Laurentia is the moving craton in this example, Laurentia is not affected, and therefore any alterations shown here should be igored, they are certainly goofs.

4) A species can have only one personality which in itself can consist of several emotions. If, for example, you have a head+tail happy emotion, you could insert a promoted mutation card with happy emoticons on both ends into that existing emotion. Or you could promote two mutations that are themselves linked by an anger emotion for example, but have happy emoticons on the "outside", thus forming 3 emotions: happy+anger+happy. This will trigger the end of the game, because that species has developed language.

5) There are no abilities per se in the game, just organ cubes with different colours that translate into what you may call abilities (e.g. dispersal range, red roadrunner niche adaptiation, etc). The organ cubes of the unpromoted mutation become basal cubes for the mother species, so this "ability" is not lost when speciating. You then move the promoted mutation card and use it to form a new species. The promotoed mutation card (I think there are no monster mutations that also offer new shapes) is now the genotype card for the new species. You then copy the size die and all basal organs that the mother has onto the the new genotpye card. Therefore...

6)... if you end up with a size dice for your new species that is larger than its genotype card would allow, you become a Kiwi.

7) I assume the mother species has 1 blue basal organ, therefore its populate-"power" is 2 (1 + number of blue organs). The newly created species therefore also has 1 blue basal organ, inherited from its mother, and also has a populate-"power" of 2.

8) Since a mother creeple can give birth to both a creeple of the same species and a newly created species via speciation, and also these newly placed creeples can act as mothers for other creeples according to the Daisy Chain rule, the term mother/daughter is not confusing. At least not for me

9) F1 Chosing a Mother is pretty straighforward: if shape B speciates from shape A, then all shape A creeples can act as mothers for shape B creeples, and also shape B creeples can become mothers of shape B creeples during the same phase.

10) Depends on the climate and events that show up. If the plant can keep oxygen levels low, it has a considerable advantage over the other players.
3 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Adam Gastonguay
United States
Pottstown
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Act Three! Everybody Dies!
Avatar
ricottma wrote:
I'm sure some of this will become clearer with the actual components...


Probably. And don't take my words as gospel, but here's my answers:

Quote:

1) Newborns are not still counted as unborn? ie if I have 2 newborn and 1 unborn my mutate purchasing power is 1 not 3? Thus you would usually mutate before you populate?


A-yup.

Quote:

2) The setup says that the archetype creeples go on the archetype card but int he picture they are on the newborn card.


Huh, my copy didn't have a setup diagram. This one's neat! Yeah, that appears to be an error.

Quote:

3) In the collision example there is a black disc on the bottom of Laurentia that is liberated (moved to the atmosphere track) but the rules seem to say that only the offshore discs in the crash are effected and that other discs should stay. Also it looks like there is a green disc and an orange dome there now where did those come from?


That black disc isn't liberated, there's just a new Green disc on top of it. As for the appearing Orange Archetype or the new plankton bloom...I have no idea. I checked the CAMP event, and that just has a continent disc go into the atmosphere, so we'll just have to assume that whatever the biosphere event was put a disc there.

Quote:

4) I am a little confused on the placement of promoted mutation cards. If I have a completed personality (head and tail) am I not allowed to promote another tail type at all or can I promote one but just not add it to the personality row? Is there a limit to promoted mutations without a personality trait?


You can have as many tails as you want, but only one put together personality. And no, there's no limit to the number of promoted mutations, but mutagen events will smack you down when you have too many.

Quote:

5) When you speciate you remove a mutation from the mother to start a daughter, the mother loses any ability on that mutation? Could you start a daughter using a monster icon promotion?


Monster icons only appear on promoted mutations. You can only speciate with a promoted mutation that has a new shape on it. There are no mutations that have both, so the question is moot.

Quote:

6) In the Kiwi rule it says "If after a resize or speciate" how would you change size during a speciate?


Some genotype cards have size limits on them already, so if you speciate to a genotype that you're already too big for, you can trigger the kiwi rule and place archetype Creeples.

Quote:

7) In the Populate example the player gets 2 newborns from speciate, how?


With one populate action you can place as many creeples as your blue cubes (Reproductive Organs)

Quote:

8) Re-using the terms mother and daughter in speciate and dispersal is sort of confusing. Could one be changed to parent/child?


Um. Maybe?

Quote:

9) In the dispersal example it looks like you used an archtype to birth a burrower? Shouldn't the burrower daughter only come from the burrower that got placed at at the end of speciate or is it a one turn thing that you can use either shape as the mother (see also disperse in place)?


"The Burrower is from a speciation of your Archetype." So you can pick whatever Archetype you want to be the mother, even an archetype that you just put down that turn.

Quote:

10) It looks like there are limitations (horror plant) on the green player, but is there an advantage to being a plant that isn't clear here?


Sure. Basically you're limited by actions by a different track from the rest of the players. If you become the Medea (which is totally recommeneded), you do your best to keep CO2 high and O2 low so you have tons of actions while the animals have few. Also, your green heart limit is often larger than the others, depending on cloud cover. You can be one mean SOB playing the plants. It takes some getting used to, and I can see the first few games being hard for Green, but it gets fun.

Quote:

11) Changes from first edition: Nothing can live in the mountains? No invasive species (one of my favorite parts!)? No third place for a burrower, a burrower is just a herbivore or a carnivore like the other types?
Yup. Yes. Start making fan variants .

Dang. ninja'd. And I wanted to look smart, too.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carlos
Spain
flag msg tools
Derphausen wrote:
9) F1 Chosing a Mother is pretty straighforward: if shape B speciates from shape A, then all shape A creeples can act as mothers for shape B creeples, and also shape B creeples can become mothers of shape B creeples during the same phase.



The thing is if during your turn you make an speciate action, by E3d you replace one of the mother´s creeple by one creeple of the new species. So, if with your next action you decide to disperse, you already have a creeple of that particular new especies on the map... shouldn´t this existing creeple be the mother?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Franz Derphausen
Germany
Düsseldorf
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
CharlieRV wrote:
The thing is if during your turn you make an speciate action, by E3d you replace one of the mother´s creeple by one creeple of the new species. So, if with your next action you decide to disperse, you already have a creeple of that particular new especies on the map... shouldn´t this existing creeple be the mother?


Not sure if I understand your question correctly, but the daughter never replaces the mother. It can, however, endanger the mother in a contest - either carnivore or herbivore - or even prey upon its mother as a carnivore from the get-go. The speciate and populate actions always increase the number of creeples on the "map".
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carlos
Spain
flag msg tools


Sure a image can explain it better
I'm talking about the point E3.d
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Franz Derphausen
Germany
Düsseldorf
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ah, I see they changed this particular section of the rules again. Ok, so in order to speciate you have to sacrifice one mother-creeple. This new daughter creeple has to be the - first - mother for the next daughter creeple, and then you can daisy chain from there.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Ricotta
Japan
Okinawa
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So I think a few things have cleared up for me...

1) You can only speciate if the card used to start the new daughter has a new unused creeple icon on it? You can't use any mutation card, just those ones.

2) Dispersion after the placement of a new daughter is still being confused I think or I'm just being dense. So lets say I made a new species and replaced an existing mother with one of the new creeples. Next I do populate and get some newborns of the new shape. On the same turn that the new species was placed can I use either the originol mother shape or the only creeple of the new shape on the map to place my new daughters? The rules seem to suggest this. The next turn I assume I'm restricted to placing from the same shape creeple for placement.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K H
msg tools
Derphausen wrote:
Ah, I see they changed this particular section of the rules again. Ok, so in order to speciate you have to sacrifice one mother-creeple. This new daughter creeple has to be the - first - mother for the next daughter creeple, and then you can daisy chain from there.


They posted the more recent rules on the Bios: Genesis Kickstarter (and uploaded them to here). It's slightly unclear how dispersal works for new species, a very strict reading leads to the weird case where you actually can't disperse from the new species creeple and have to choose the dispersal-mother to be the speciation-mother. The relevant rule entry is under F1 and reads:

Quote:
For a speciation (i.e. brand new Species), the mother is any Creeple of the Shape that had speciated in the previous phase.


Having said that, the most sensible reading is that both the original species and the new-species creeple could be the dispersal-mother (and this is supported by the examples).

ricottma wrote:

2) Dispersion after the placement of a new daughter is still being confused I think or I'm just being dense. So lets say I made a new species and replaced an existing mother with one of the new creeples. Next I do populate and get some newborns of the new shape. On the same turn that the new species was placed can I use either the originol mother shape or the only creeple of the new shape on the map to place my new daughters? The rules seem to suggest this. The next turn I assume I'm restricted to placing from the same shape creeple for placement.


Yeah, this is my interpretation.


ricottma wrote:

1) You can only speciate if the card used to start the new daughter has a new unused creeple icon on it? You can't use any mutation card, just those ones.

Correct. Although, I couldn't actually find a rule saying it had to be an unused creeple-type and it would be nice if that was said explicitly/if someone could point out where it is said to me. I see it's listed under section E2 but not E3.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K H
msg tools
I'm a bit confused at how rafting works.

Say the wind is going east to west.

Can I only raft from the east side of the continent?

Must I stop at the next (easterly) continent that is at the same latitude as the starting continent? Furthermore, must I enter the biome that is at the same latitude as where you started (e.g. if both continents are latitude 4 and I leave a biome at latitude 5, must I enter a latitude 5 biome on the landed-on continent)?

I am wondering how literally I am supposed to read this rule:
Quote:
A Creeple may move from one Continent to another Continent in the same Latitude


If I have one continent at latitude 5 and another at continent 3, can I not raft between them even though they both have biomes at latitude 4?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Doull
Australia
Kirrawee
NSW
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmb
If the wind is going from east to west, you go from the west side of one continent to the east side of the continent to the left at the same latitude. If the continent to the left does not have any matching latitudes you can't raft to it.

Don't forget a continent can be formed from multiple cratons, so that it may take up more than 3 latitudes.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K H
msg tools
andrewdoull wrote:
If the wind is going from east to west, you go from the west side of one continent to the east side of the continent to the left at the same latitude. If the continent to the left does not have any matching latitudes you can't raft to it.

Don't forget a continent can be formed from multiple cratons, so that it may take up more than 3 latitudes.


Ok, thanks. I derped on which side of the continent to leave when writing the question blush

If there is still time to change the rulebook, could I suggest changing the wording to something like:

"A Creeple may move from one Coast Biome to another Coast Biome in the same Latitude (including wrap-around, see D3b). One can raft between Continents or even between two Coasts on the same Continent."

or maybe

"A Creeple may move from one Continent's Biome to another Continent's Biome at the same Latitude"

And maybe add "and must stop at the first encountered coast" somewhere for either.

Perhaps I am a weirdo, but when I read "another Continent in the same Latitude" I think matching Latitude dice (that is, a "Continent's Latitude" is the value of its Latitude die).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jakub Ukrop
Slovakia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
ricottma wrote:
7) In the Populate example the player gets 2 newborns from speciate, how?

The example in question is this one (E4), and the questioned part is highlighted:

Quote:
Example: For your three actions, you choose speciate (creating 2 armored Newborns), Populate (creating 2 Archetype Newborns), and Populate (creating 2 more armored Newborns).

In my opinion, it's a typo or a remnant of old speciation ruling. Nothing suggests you could get any newborns from speciation action itself.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Franz Derphausen
Germany
Düsseldorf
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yakub is correct. The way speciation works was changed, but the example remained unaltered. Oh oh, the example for F1 was also left untouched. Its wording suggests that the newly speciated newborn can prey on its mother, the old species from whence it originated. That shouldn't be possible because the mother creeple has to be swapped with the yet unborn first creeple of the new species.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carlos
Spain
flag msg tools
Everything is clearer now! Thanks

Another doubt... Point A1 talks about events phase. It says:

"...draw 1 biosphere event card from the current biosphere deck (either too hot, goldilocks, or too cold, as indicated by the Atmosphere from last turn)..."

But zones on the Atmosphere reservoir are: greenhouse, hothouse, warm, eden, cool, ice age, icehouse.

Any idea of how does it work?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jakub Ukrop
Slovakia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
See glossary
Quote:
Latitude Strips (C1j). There are 3 double-sided latitude strips, each defining the 8 latitudes from north to south pole. The latitude colors are reddish (too hot), green (goldilocks), and blue (too cold). Furthermore, each color has two sides: icehouse and Ice Age (blue), cool and Eden (green), and warm and hothouse (reddish).

There are 3 biosphere decks (reddish, green and blue) corresponding to 3 latitude strips. All strips are double-sided to match 6 Atmosphere reservoir zones. The 7th zone (greenhouse) needs no cards or strips because the game is over.
(I deduce form the rules.)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K H
msg tools
CharlieRV wrote:

Another doubt... Point A1 talks about events phase. It says:

"...draw 1 biosphere event card from the current biosphere deck (either too hot, goldilocks, or too cold, as indicated by the Atmosphere from last turn)..."

But zones on the Atmosphere reservoir are: greenhouse, hothouse, warm, eden, cool, ice age, icehouse.

Any idea of how does it work?


I believe the translation between Atmosphere reservoir position and deck type is on the Latitude strips. See the glossary entry for Latitude Strip for the translation if you don't have the components.

E.g. if the Atmosphere is "warm" the Latitude Strip you would use is the "Too Hot" one on the warm side and you would thus draw from the "Too Hot" deck.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carlos
Spain
flag msg tools
Ups... sorry, i forgot the glossary blush
Thanks for the explanation
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K H
msg tools
Where do incidentally liberated disks go? For example, disks liberated from climaxes; disks liberated from a Disk of Damocles landing on them; disks liberated from deluges; disks liberated from cratons impacting each other; etc.

I can't find anything explicit.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Fenton
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
ShieldOfMeat wrote:
Where do incidentally liberated disks go? For example, disks liberated from climaxes; disks liberated from a Disk of Damocles landing on them; disks liberated from deluges; disks liberated from cratons impacting each other; etc.

I can't find anything explicit.

Similar question regarding degassing. When a crater hits, where does the black disc come from? I'm guessing these come from or go to a pile off the board as opposed to a reservoir?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K H
msg tools
dsdhornet wrote:

Similar question regarding degassing. When a crater hits, where does the black disc come from? I'm guessing these come from or go to a pile off the board as opposed to a reservoir?


Degassing is from a reservoir (unless it doesn't have the appropriate disk, then the Medea player picks the disk from anywhere). See the glossary entry for degas.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Fenton
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
ShieldOfMeat wrote:
Degassing is from a reservoir (unless it doesn't have the appropriate disk, then the Medea player picks the disk from anywhere). See the glossary entry for degas.

Then which reservoir does the crater disc come from?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K H
msg tools
dsdhornet wrote:
ShieldOfMeat wrote:
Degassing is from a reservoir (unless it doesn't have the appropriate disk, then the Medea player picks the disk from anywhere). See the glossary entry for degas.

Then which reservoir does the crater disc come from?


That's a good question (I suspect the East things are supposed to shake out is that black disks only ever are stored in the atmosphere reservoir, but I don't think that's stated anywhere).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.