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Subject: How does Force on Force compare to Skirmish Sangin? rss

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I am currently looking at different skirmish miniature rule options for a modern warfare setting with a particular focus on the last Afghanistan war (squad to platoon level).

How would you compare Force on Force to Skirmish Sangin:

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/147458/skirmish-sangin

Do they have a similar level of complexity?

I thought about playing with 20mm miniatures from Elhiem:

https://www.elhiem.co.uk/

Would appreciate your input. meeple
 
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Josh Malbon
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Spectre: Operations are pretty good rules for modern battles.
It's based on 28mm. They're complex, but not that difficult.



I use Empress and Spectre minis. Empress has some great Taliban and Insurgents.

https://www.ageofglory.com/empress-modern-combat

https://www.spectreminiatures.com/collections/all

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Tom Oxley
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I've not played Skirmish Sangin but found Force on Force to be fairly easy to play once I understood some basic concepts. The use of different die types for different quality of troops was very interesting. I used one of the rule book scenarios and converted from a WWIII Europe to an Invasion of Kuwait battle for a local convention game and found player had little difficulty with play after the first turn or two, a pretty good sign for a game system. I play in 6mm scale, basing 3, 4 or 5 figures together as fire teams, depending on the force being represented, using small color coded rings to mark casualties, and convert from inches to centimeters, so what is a 4' square area in the scenario map becomes a little over 2' square. All the scenario books available adds a lot of value to the system, being able to play commando raids or operations in Somalia.
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Gary Krockover
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They're both fairly simple to play but both suffer from the issue that you find with most miniatures games; very verbose rulebooks that makes referencing the rules next to impossible (but they have gorgeous pictures!). Once you can download or make a cheatsheet though (for either game), you find that they are really not complex games at all. With that said...

They both tackle the situation from different perspectives. Force on Force abstracts the equipment heavily and concentrates more on the experience/training/morale of the combatants where as Sangin puts more emphasis on the "firepower to bear" on the target to derive it's results. I'd like to see a bit of a mix of both personally and perhaps that's what Spectre Op's does (I have the rules but haven't gone through them yet). None of the games match the level of detail of say "Phoenix Command" but all are more highly playable. FoF is very quick playing (and almost too simplistic for my tastes) where as Sangin has some math involved (it's D100 based and very reminiscent of the old "Boot Hill" game to me).

So to break them down:

1. FoF: quick playing, easy to learn (horribly organized rulebook) that concentrates more on troop quality and morale.

2. SS: medium speed play (figuring dice modifiers slows it down) that is a simple game (same horribly organized rulebook) that puts medium weight emphasis on organization and equipment and what the firepower level does to a target that is being shot at.

3. Spectre Ops: not enough data gathered for me at this point to comment but if the rulebook is more of a "rulebook" and not a picture book sprinkled with "how to" guides then it's already better than the other two in that regards.
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Josh Malbon
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Spectre Ops, definitely needs some cheat sheets. There are lots of tables throughout the book. I forgot I actually made some, but didn't upload them yet. Trying to add the game to The Geek's database was a bit of a chore.

I'm going to ask the designers, if I can upload their Quick Reference Guide, as well as my own charts I made.

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Fee Weasel
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…so do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.
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I have only played FoF a few times. I own most of their rules and expansion books. Their focus on troop quality is actually what made me take a second look at the rules. I like the idea of troop quality being the driving factor.

The rules do take weapon type into account in some instances. A SAW adds an extra die, side arms and shotguns have a range limit to name a few. But the rules don’t care if the troops are armed with an AK, M4 or the like. It’s their training level that sets them apart.

A neat system for sure that is somewhat solo capable, which was the other deciding factor.

You might also look at TwoHourWargames, more skirmish or squad level action than platoon.
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Joe Legan

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Love the morale system for FoF and it is easy. The whole reaction thing gets complicated. I also like Combat patrol which has free supplements for modern combat.

Joe
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