Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
39 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Gloomhaven» Forums » General

Subject: Seeking Beast/Bear Face Advice - * SPOILERS * rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Eric Bridge
United States
Roanoke
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Spoiler (click to reveal)
This is not for myself, but for a friend who retired his Scoundrel and acquired Beast Tyrant as his second character. It's a big change in difficulty for him, and he feels he is not playing him optimally. For example, the bear died last time because he would be out of range of his heals by the time it was his turn, and stuff like that. He also has a hard time keeping his character close to the rest of us. He also doesn't like that the bear's movement is so automated and that he can't just choose what it does and where it goes (more on this soon).

But I also see the potential, in other threads about Beast Tyrant, for him to be extremely powerful. (We are all level 5, by the way.)

I don't have the cards with me now, but it seems a prevalent strategy to go "all bear" - basically using one card that stays out to forego the Beast Tyrant's own turn by "beefing up" the bear instead. I THINK this card, if I remember right, allows the player to control where the bear goes and also boosts it's attacks to really high levels. If I understand the strategy correctly, it would involve leaving the Beast Tyrant near the starting location, and maybe bringing the card that allows him to swap the places of any two figures, in case his character is needed at the end? I believe there is a command "loot" card now as well (2nd edition), and a command "heal", to keep the bear going (and the other players can help with this too. Is this the easiest/best way to use this character? I think what he is trying to do is have BOTH figures stay together and make optimal moves every time, and it just seems extremely difficult.

Our next Scenario, Sunday evening, is # 7. Yeah, we're seriously backtracking because we had skipped this one before. I'm not a big fan of the goal, and it doesn't reward anything. But now the Beast Tyrant wants to kill Forest Imps, and they are in good supply there. But with the goal of that scenario being so unique, I figured I should ask about his "strategy" here in advance, to avoid some serious frustration. Thanks for your help!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Foshee
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I understand it is your friend who is playing and not you, so I guess pass this information along?

There is a heal card by default, it is not in the 2nd version. You can heal the bear for 4 with Patch Fur. There is also a card that lets you transfer damage among any of your summons and yourself. Therefore, you could take damage from the bear and move it to the Beast Tyrant and/or any other summons you have out. The Beast Tyrant also has a heal card, and could use items to help stay full health as well. In this way, you can heal the bear for 4 one turn, and in the next turn heal it even more.

The bear should not be leaving your team behind. It has move 3. Unless you guys are using multiple turns, while there are other monsters to focus in other rooms, to loot. There are multiple cards that allow you to move the bear yourself which allows you to move it back behind the group to slow it down, or re-position based on enemy types/positioning.

Keeping the Beast Tyrant close is one of the more difficult things to do. He has a move 5, so that, combine with boots, could get you a move 7 every so often which should be more than enough to stay close enough for scenario requirements.

TLDR: There are many command cards that heal, move, and beef up attacks for the bear. Most of the listed worries are solved by these. BT movement is tricky, but manageable.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Latimore
United States
Arizona
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
Spoiler (click to reveal)
My understanding is any card that says "Command" lets you control the bears actions.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Pelletier
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me - John 14:6
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Keep in mind that the Beast Tyrant does NOT need to be in line of sight of the bear to give it commands. So kill all the monsters in the first room and leave that guy behind, doing all the dirty work with the bear. If you need your characters all to be at the exit at the end of the scenario, save the switch places card for the last monster and bampf over at the last second. I also enjoyed the 5th level monolith summon...I'd drop that thing next to the tyrant to keep him safe until the end game.

This character is awesome. You do 3 move/2 attack (I think I got that right) with the bear, and then your Tyrant can command him to do things again. You can't control that first action, but since the bear goes right after the tyrant, you can usually negate any wrong direction movement if you've chosen your cards wisely. I hope your friend figures him out and has as much fun as I did with him. Kinda miss that fuzzy guy...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Latimore
United States
Arizona
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
Pelly54 wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Keep in mind that the Beast Tyrant does NOT need to be in line of sight of the bear to give it commands. So kill all the monsters in the first room and leave that guy behind, doing all the dirty work with the bear. If you need your characters all to be at the exit at the end of the scenario, save the switch places card for the last monster and bampf over at the last second. I also enjoyed the 5th level monolith summon...I'd drop that thing next to the tyrant to keep him safe until the end game.

This character is awesome. You do 3 move/2 attack (I think I got that right) with the bear, and then your Tyrant can command him to do things again. You can't control that first action, but since the bear goes right after the tyrant, you can usually negate any wrong direction movement if you've chosen your cards wisely. I hope your friend figures him out and has as much fun as I did with him. Kinda miss that fuzzy guy...


Spoiler (click to reveal)
The bear goes before the tyrant though, not after.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Pelletier
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me - John 14:6
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
alphasquid wrote:
Pelly54 wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Keep in mind that the Beast Tyrant does NOT need to be in line of sight of the bear to give it commands. So kill all the monsters in the first room and leave that guy behind, doing all the dirty work with the bear. If you need your characters all to be at the exit at the end of the scenario, save the switch places card for the last monster and bampf over at the last second. I also enjoyed the 5th level monolith summon...I'd drop that thing next to the tyrant to keep him safe until the end game.

This character is awesome. You do 3 move/2 attack (I think I got that right) with the bear, and then your Tyrant can command him to do things again. You can't control that first action, but since the bear goes right after the tyrant, you can usually negate any wrong direction movement if you've chosen your cards wisely. I hope your friend figures him out and has as much fun as I did with him. Kinda miss that fuzzy guy...


Spoiler (click to reveal)
The bear goes before the tyrant though, not after.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
Yup, thought one thing, typed another. In the sentence before you can see that I knew what I was talking about
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mathue Faulkner
United States
Austin
TX
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I'm with Mike on this one. There have been several scenarios where I haven't moved the Beast Tyrant even once, and I choose my hand with the thought that I'm really only using the Bear. There are some scenarios where you have to move the Beast Tyrant, but you know that going in so you can adjust your hand for more movement (or just use the switch trick like Mike pointed out if it's that type of scenario).

The "beefing up" card that was referred to in the OP is Concentrated Rage....and my play completely centers around that card. Honestly, I almost exclusively use it for the +3 Attack since I don't usually include the any top action Move cards. I do my best to play it the first turn if I can, and then I use that ability quite a bit throughout the game. I always keep at least 3 cards with bottom Attack actions, and some of the higher level bottom Attack actions are just crazy awesome. One of the level 5 cards, Rampage, is great for this strategy because it allows some movement prior to the attack (although you have to anticipate the movement since it isn't a Command). I actually never picked up the Monolith that Mike referenced simply because some of the other cards like Rampage seemed to gel better with my play.

I can't say that I'm playing him the best or easiest way necessarily, but it sure feels great. I dabbled with more Summons out, as well as splitting attacks with the Beast Tyrant and Bear, and I had a harder time with them. That's just me though, and maybe I didn't give those strategies a fair shake.

In thinking about this, I wonder if the Bear is a lot easier to control in 2p games. I've played a couple 4p games with him, but not enough to necessarily notice a difference. It makes sense, however, since there would be less enemies and things would be more predictable. Additionally, when it's just the two of us, we can more easily plan both of our actions with the position of the Bear in mind.

The timing of opening a door can be really important with the Bear. It's best to open doors before everything is dead, and it's best if someone else can open the door. It takes some coordination.

Some general thoughts on hand building, etc. I always have at least one Command Heal (that doesn't require range/LoS), and probably 2 Command Moves. I have several ways to do Stamina type actions so that I can pull cards when I need them in a pinch. I have a couple of items that can indirectly control wear the Bear moves. My initial Modifier Deck perks were Heals, and I think it worked out pretty well.

Oh, and if you're level 5, then I recommend that he do the solo scenario if you have the other requirements. It's tough, but it also forces you to think about creative ways to use the Beast Tyrant.

Forest Imps are tough because of the Shields/Curses. There is a Command Pierce card, but otherwise it's mostly about hitting hard. Hopefully the other party members can soften those guys up. Curses suck.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Russo
Australia
Craigie
WA
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Spoiler (click to reveal)
My only problem with BT is that the bear can't use any item, and the Tyrant has very limited attack options.

The items I chose are: boots with +2 movement (extremely important due to the lack of movement cards), a shield, a helm the recovers 1 health (also very important to clean poison and wound), the robe of invisibility, and a sword that add +1 to the basic melee attack also important for those situations I found the Tyrant alone against a foe.

The Beast can have some powerful combos, especially when he gets strength.

Also when selecting perks I recommend adding the +1 health, truly awesome to recover the Bear's life.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dani Evans
United Kingdom
Telford
Shropshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mfaulk80 wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
One of the level 5 cards, Rampage, is great for this strategy because it allows some movement prior to the attack (although you have to anticipate the movement since it isn't a Command).


Spoiler (click to reveal)
I just unlocked this card and it does explicitly say that you control the actions, so it's equivalent of a command move and a command attack combined.

I've only just started playing the BT (at prosperity 4) and it's a super fun class! Previously I had a burst-damage Scoundrel and a lockdown Mind Thief, and this is completely different again. It's a little depressing not having access to the super low initiative that I'm used to, but 17 and 20 aren't too bad. It does mean that every pair of cards played has to have a main plan and a backup plan, but that's half the fun - finding a combination of cards to play that will do something useful no matter where the bear decides to wander. Concentrated Rage really helps with that as it means you almost always have something you can do with your cards. I tend to move my Tyrant into a room that has been cleared so if my bear really screws the pooch and there's nothing I can do in a round, then I can always just use the default 2 movement to grab a coin, trickling in some gold.

One question that came up last night - we had to destroy some stone altars. We decided that the bear wouldn't naturally move toward and attack the altars, since they aren't an enemy, but that the Tyrant could command attack the altars. Was that right?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trang VP
Australia
flag msg tools
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The OCD in me won't let me post something not in spoilers.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stefan
Germany
flag msg tools
Plum wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I just unlocked this card and it does explicitly say that you control the actions, so it's equivalent of a command move and a command attack combined.

I've only just started playing the BT (at prosperity 4) and it's a super fun class! Previously I had a burst-damage Scoundrel and a lockdown Mind Thief, and this is completely different again. It's a little depressing not having access to the super low initiative that I'm used to, but 17 and 20 aren't too bad. It does mean that every pair of cards played has to have a main plan and a backup plan, but that's half the fun - finding a combination of cards to play that will do something useful no matter where the bear decides to wander. Concentrated Rage really helps with that as it means you almost always have something you can do with your cards. I tend to move my Tyrant into a room that has been cleared so if my bear really screws the pooch and there's nothing I can do in a round, then I can always just use the default 2 movement to grab a coin, trickling in some gold.

One question that came up last night - we had to destroy some stone altars. We decided that the bear wouldn't naturally move toward and attack the altars, since they aren't an enemy, but that the Tyrant could command attack the altars. Was that right?

Objects that need to be damaged are considered "enemies" for all purposes with an initiative of 99 and immunity to status effects, see FAQ. So the bear would still focus on them, if all other enemies are farther away.


Some advice on bear play:
I think, that concentrating on bear commands is always a good option. The summons are all lost effects, which cause you to be exhausted rather quick if you have too many of them in your deck. Also, they usually get killed quick because they have much less HP than your bear. Controlling both characters to team up can be tricky and is atleast in my opinion less effective than going full concentrated rage and bear commands.

To keep the bear alive, you have one healing command and the damage replacement card at the beginning. Later on you also have a combined attack / heal command which works great with concentrated rage. The 6 rolling heal modifiers do a good job too. If there are some hard hitting melee monsters nearby, you could do the range 2 immobilize command and then move command the bear away from them to avoid damage for one round. Also, try to keep the bear away from retalliate monsters. Apart from that, you should work together with your teammates, so that their positioning can take away some pressure from the bear.
Btw, with concentrated rage itself, you cannot control the bear movement directly, you just add something to it's attacks or moves. You can only do this with move commands.

PS: Is there a reason to use additional spoiler boxes inside of this post?

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mathue Faulkner
United States
Austin
TX
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Plum wrote:
mfaulk80 wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
One of the level 5 cards, Rampage, is great for this strategy because it allows some movement prior to the attack (although you have to anticipate the movement since it isn't a Command).


Spoiler (click to reveal)
I just unlocked this card and it does explicitly say that you control the actions, so it's equivalent of a command move and a command attack combined.


You're right. I'm not sure what I was thinking when I typed that. It isn't technically a Command though, so it doesn't work as well with the solo item....
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Tsang
United Kingdom
Claverton, Bath
Somerset
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mfaulk80 wrote:
Plum wrote:
mfaulk80 wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
One of the level 5 cards, Rampage, is great for this strategy because it allows some movement prior to the attack (although you have to anticipate the movement since it isn't a Command).


Spoiler (click to reveal)
I just unlocked this card and it does explicitly say that you control the actions, so it's equivalent of a command move and a command attack combined.


You're right. I'm not sure what I was thinking when I typed that. It isn't technically a Command though, so it doesn't work as well with the solo item....


It does work with (prosperity 5 spoilers)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Ring of haste
though.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mathue Faulkner
United States
Austin
TX
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
da5idt wrote:
mfaulk80 wrote:
Plum wrote:
mfaulk80 wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
One of the level 5 cards, Rampage, is great for this strategy because it allows some movement prior to the attack (although you have to anticipate the movement since it isn't a Command).


Spoiler (click to reveal)
I just unlocked this card and it does explicitly say that you control the actions, so it's equivalent of a command move and a command attack combined.


You're right. I'm not sure what I was thinking when I typed that. It isn't technically a Command though, so it doesn't work as well with the solo item....


It does work with (prosperity 5 spoilers)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Ring of haste
though.

Yeah, we didn't have that unlocked when I was using him. That would've been super awesome though...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Tsang
United Kingdom
Claverton, Bath
Somerset
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mfaulk80 wrote:

Quote:

It does work with (prosperity 5 spoilers)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Ring of haste
though.

Yeah, we didn't have that unlocked when I was using him. That would've been super awesome though...

In our penultimate game (I'm moving this week, so our last group session was last night), we finished the main storyline boss. Using this item and
Spoiler (click to reveal)
the empowering talisman, along with the lvl 9 Attack, push, move attack card, refreshed twice in a round, and another character giving me consumed items back, I managed to deal 45 damage to the big bad in a round (including a crit), followed by 39 the next.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mathue Faulkner
United States
Austin
TX
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
da5idt wrote:
mfaulk80 wrote:

Quote:

It does work with (prosperity 5 spoilers)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Ring of haste
though.

Yeah, we didn't have that unlocked when I was using him. That would've been super awesome though...

In our penultimate game (I'm moving this week, so our last group session was last night), we finished the main storyline boss. Using this item and
Spoiler (click to reveal)
the empowering talisman, along with the lvl 9 Attack, push, move attack card, refreshed twice in a round, and another character giving me consumed items back, I managed to deal 45 damage to the big bad in a round (including a crit), followed by 39 the next.

thumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dani Evans
United Kingdom
Telford
Shropshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
How are people generally getting gold on their BT? I'm not playing with the 2nd ed. loot card, so having to do it the hard way. Typically my teammates will leave the gold in the starting area and I'll slowly pick it up whenever I find myself with a bottom-action that I can't use - shuffling around 2 steps at a time. Three or four coins a scenario seems about the best I can manage this way. After playing a Mind Thief and a Scoundrel I'm feeling poor!

We were also thinking of turning the BT into the defacto chest grabber, using figure swapping to ping him into treasure rooms - selling looted items should be a quick way to get a cash boost. But then we're wasting one of the best cards for getting out of a jam. I'll hopefully get the Move2-switch-Move2 card soon which should ease that
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stefan
Germany
flag msg tools
Plum wrote:
How are people generally getting gold on their BT? I'm not playing with the 2nd ed. loot card, so having to do it the hard way. Typically my teammates will leave the gold in the starting area and I'll slowly pick it up whenever I find myself with a bottom-action that I can't use - shuffling around 2 steps at a time. Three or four coins a scenario seems about the best I can manage this way. After playing a Mind Thief and a Scoundrel I'm feeling poor!

For that reason they changed one of the cards in the new edition to the loot command. Well, the thing you describe is the only way to get money with him. I remember that very well, because my beast tyrant hat a livetime goal which involved collecting alot of money...
Convince your team mates to leave some cash on the floor and slowly move to get it (Well, not slowly. You do have a move 5 card. You just won't have the opportunity to play it that often, as long as you try to efficiently command your bear).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trang VP
Australia
flag msg tools
It's true this class has difficulty looting in 1st edition. At the same time, this is probably the least item dependent class. Since most strategies revolve around dedicate almost every action to the bear, most equipped items that affect only the vermling will be useless. Most chests, hands, headgear, boots will be useless. Even things like health potions will be useless. All you really need are stamina potions, and any other items that help refresh cards/items are just a bonus. After that it's just enhancements, or items that might help your team mates instead (eg creating elements).

Edit: or you got unlucky like Stefan and get a personal quest that is money dependent
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Tsang
United Kingdom
Claverton, Bath
Somerset
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
For my BT, I implemented the second printing change and added the loot card (using a label sticker and a sharpie). I actually gave all the players the option of implementing 2nd printing changes for their characters or not, but I think only the mind thief did as well.

I had a goal that was very dependent on getting money,
Spoiler (click to reveal)
get 5 enhancements
and even still it took about twice as long to retire as my last character.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dani Evans
United Kingdom
Telford
Shropshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Funnily enough, my goal does require a lot of cash yes, though I'm not too worried about retirement yet as I've only just started him
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I retire when I have two helmets, two vests, two necklaces, three one-handers, two boots and a bunch of potions! Yes, the character that gets the least use out of equipment needs to go nuts on equipment...


Mostly I was after the money for enhancements, but as you've said I don't feel any desperate need for it
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Rhyne
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
Can someone help me figure out what I’m missing?

I came from an Inox Brute, who did about 4-8 hp of damage each round, and generated oodles of exp and could use items.

This character is a couple of mooks that have movement issues (one can’t move pretty much ever, beyond 2, and the other has to basically be turned around from certain death each turn since it has no shields and medium hp).

You can attack once for 5, or twice for 4-6 on the rare enemies with no shields. Your main character is completely useless beyond wrangling the bear.

What makes this more useful than the Brute? Can commands be ignored and used on yourself, so you can actually move? Given people have expressed this character is useful, I must be missing something. Thus far it’s just a less survivable, less damaging Brute who can’t use items. Does it level up immensely with meaningful cards at level 4+ (I’m only level 3 with this guy), or am I ignoring some dramatic facet?

Thanks
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Rhyne
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
If you use the Concentrated Rage ability to forgo a card’s top or bottom, you forfeit the experience that would come from that card, right?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
tibbles von tibbleton
United States
Oregon
flag msg tools
Yes, if you concentrated rage you forfeit the printed xp. But, you seem to have missed it will apply to ALL attacks for that turn. You can let the bear do his auto attack for 5 then use a bottom attack command card for another 5+. And then with items you can do yet another command attack for 5+.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ftl ftw
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I found this guy pretty powerful. I can't compare to the brute since we haven't played him, but I feel like I do as much damage as the mindthief I used to have and my scoundrel party member.

I always have concentrated rage out, obviously. Most turns I forego my top action, which means the bear starts by doing move 3 attack 5. That's the base of the turn, and I also get a bottom action. Any bottom attack also gets the bonus, so when I'm fighting something big I can have my turn be move 3, attack 5, attack 5. Sometimes I can have that attack 5 at the end have target 2, that's a level 3 card. Or I can do a heal, so the bear's turn is move 3, attack 5, heal 4. That gives it some sustainability. (Or redistribute the bear's damage to the beast tyrant, which is basically a heal since I never use the tyrant himself). Overall, I can do an attack 5 every turn AND have time for something else.

Your allies do have to support you, though. Left to his own devices the bear will just run ahead and draw all the fire, and if you have turns where you have to waste your bottom action making the bear move backwards you're not gonna do very well. So whoever's with you has to also be aggressive with you. Help kill things far so the bear doesn't take too many hits, and take one or two hits themselves.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.