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Subject: New Draft of Comprehensive Rules rss

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Donn Hardy
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First, I would like to emphasize that this is still a Draft, because many of the newer dice are still not listed, and we have a list of suggestions to incorporate still. However, since this was posted in the KS, I wanted to let people know about it. I'll keep updating the TO DO list as people make suggestions here or on the KS.

Newest Draft of Rulebook
http://freepdfhosting.com/1d05d55b21.pdf

List of TO DO items based on feedback
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TGGGx_zpSeVaCEgiR1pcOl2h...
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Tylor Lilley
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These are obviously not important changes, but they are ones I DO think should be made before the final is over:

- "Morning Star" should be "Flail", since a morning star actually has no chain whip. What the dice depicts is a flail.
- "Ring of Focus" should be "Ring of Discipline" to match the name of the ability that the monk has (which does the same thing and is also the ability pictured on the die)

I think Bryan pointed out both of these, but they are VERY valid points!
 
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Todd Pytel
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How long before this goes to press, Donn? I'd like to go over it with a fine-toothed comb and compare it against rules questions that have been asked in the past. But I probably won't have time for that for another week or so. At first glance, it's a huge improvement over the current printed rules. The overall structure is much more logical and comprehensive.
 
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Donn Hardy
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tppytel wrote:
How long before this goes to press, Donn? I'd like to go over it with a fine-toothed comb and compare it against rules questions that have been asked in the past. But I probably won't have time for that for another week or so. At first glance, it's a huge improvement over the current printed rules. The overall structure is much more logical and comprehensive.


No clue. It still needs to be updated with rules for all of the newest dice. And it still needs to undergo a graphics overhaul. Hopefully, we'll get input on those versions, too.

FWIW, I went through the entire FAQ and everything on the DD Rules forum. And everything in the update comments after the original draft was posted. And everything that 11 other backers bombarded me with.
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Anthony Hyde
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Some more things to add to the to-do list.

Under special events the mimic and the genie have the same symbol. Not sure if this is supposed to be this way as i'm new.

I'm also unsure of where to ask but I can't seem to find it in this newer version of the rules. How do classes work? How do you draw them? This might be something that needs added into the rules.
 
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Donn Hardy
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PtoIemy wrote:
Some more things to add to the to-do list.

Under special events the mimic and the genie have the same symbol. Not sure if this is supposed to be this way as i'm new.

I'm also unsure of where to ask but I can't seem to find it in this newer version of the rules. How do classes work? How do you draw them? This might be something that needs added into the rules.


I didn't have access to all the artwork. The Genie and a lot of the newer dice have placeholder art.

Classes are placed in the Encounter bag and are drawn like any other die. Their rules are up in the bag section.
 
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Anthony Hyde
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OK checking that out now.

It would also be awesome if we could make the PDF text searchable.
 
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Tylor Lilley
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PtoIemy wrote:
OK checking that out now.

It would also be awesome if we could make the PDF text searchable.


Yeah, that was something I wished for several times while helping to edit and review the rules. I hope at least the final version is and that this is just a holdover currently from all the constant file format changes as the document was passed around.
 
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Donn Hardy
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Looking at that now. It looks like it may be a problem with the Font used.

EDIT: Yep. If I change to a more common Font, the PDF becomes searchable.
 
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Tylor Lilley
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donnbobhardy wrote:
Looking at that now. It looks like it may be a problem with the Font used.

EDIT: Yep. If I change to a more common Font, the PDF becomes searchable.


Woah, cool. Thanks Donn!
 
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Bryan Emerson
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tylorlilley wrote:
These are obviously not important changes, but they are ones I DO think should be made before the final is over:

- "Morning Star" should be "Flail", since a morning star actually has no chain whip. What the dice depicts is a flail.
- "Ring of Focus" should be "Ring of Discipline" to match the name of the ability that the monk has (which does the same thing and is also the ability pictured on the die)

I think Bryan pointed out both of these, but they are VERY valid points!


Bryan pointed neither out, but much appreciated =]
 
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Donn Hardy
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I think the Flail came from Proffejor. Not sure about the Discipline.
 
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Bryan Emerson
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It came as a result of me posting the Bane idea, but it was not I.
 
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Gilles Monchoux
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Hello,
I just gave a quick look to the draft, and I think new players may be turned off by all the explanations for the extensions.
Dungeon Dice is meant to be played with base game first, then only with additional dice and extensions. This draft of the rules mix everything. The first section with all the type of dice explained will overwhelm beginners with concepts that do not exist before being familiarized with the game.
In my opinion, a clear distinction should be made all the time between base and extensions.
I have no idea how to do that without dispatching abilities over several chapters. A light solution may be to make a distinct mark when a section is only applicable to a specific extension. For example, in the dice description, introduce base dice in a first sub chapter which gives the basic, introduce Guilds and its classes in another sub chapter, etc.
Concepts specific to a given extension should be grouped in my opinion. Remember that not everyone is a completionist.
 
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Rafał Wątorski
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Maskounet wrote:
Hello,
I just gave a quick look to the draft, and I think new players may be turned off by all the explanations for the extensions.
Dungeon Dice is meant to be played with base game first, then only with additional dice and extensions. This draft of the rules mix everything. The first section with all the type of dice explained will overwhelm beginners with concepts that do not exist before being familiarized with the game.
In my opinion, a clear distinction should be made all the time between base and extensions.
I have no idea how to do that without dispatching abilities over several chapters. A light solution may be to make a distinct mark when a section is only applicable to a specific extension. For example, in the dice description, introduce base dice in a first sub chapter which gives the basic, introduce Guilds and its classes in another sub chapter, etc.
Concepts specific to a given extension should be grouped in my opinion. Remember that not everyone is a completionist.
The comprehensive rules are not a replacement for the current rulebooks. If I understand it correctly, it's an optional all-in-one rulebook, mainly for players that already have all the expansions.
 
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Gilles Monchoux
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Wait, what? I certainly hope you're wrong. In my opinion the intended target for a change of the rule book are new players, who don't already know how to play and want to learn. Probably they also already heard about the lacking of the existing rule book, and are only likely to play if they are said that an improvement has been made.
 
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Donn Hardy
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Rafal is correct. The rulebook is an all-in-one rulebook and is written with the assumption that those using it have all the expansions.

The core game already got a rewrite. It is unclear whether the rule clarifications in the Comprehensive Rulebook will propagate into a new core rulebook or not.
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Kenneth Laird
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It should probably be explicitly indicated that using invisibility results in no experience gain or trophies. I feel like it's obvious to me, but it might not be to new players.
 
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Gilles Monchoux
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donnbobhardy wrote:
The core game already got a rewrite. It is unclear whether the rule clarifications in the Comprehensive Rulebook will propagate into a new core rulebook or not.


I don't remember any good rewrite for core. Were there some bad one ?
 
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Tylor Lilley
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The Base Game rules and other individual rulebooks were rewritten before the launch of this last Kickstadter Campaign. You can find the new version of the base game rulebook on the new Kickstarter's campaign page. They may get updated again once the comprehensive rulebook is final to make the ability wordings match and stuff, but I dont know if anything has been said about that either way yet or not.
 
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