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Subject: Craftsman - taking multiple, what's the cost? rss

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Luke
United Kingdom
Ipswich
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Hi all,

I am going to be playing this for the first time tomorrow which will include teaching, and thanks to Heavy Cardboard I will be able to teach most things clearly.

However, one thing they didn't cover (as they didn't do it) is taking multiple craftsman on the same turn.

Let's say I take 1 of the primary craftsman along with the first available card. If I were to then place a second of the same primary (either in the same turn or on subsequent turns) do I pay the cost of the card again? Or is the second placement free?

I know I don't take the second card as you can only have 1 card, but just wondering about the cost of placing an additional craftsman of the same type you already own?

EDIT: Also, do you have to add the VR as well?

Thanks all.

2nd EDIT: Edited a typo to clear up.
 
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Maarten D. de Jong
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The card has to be interpreted as 'knowledge'. Once you have that, you don't need to expend of build that up again. The cost of that knowledge is an amount of VR increase printed on the card. Apprentices or masters on the other hand are living people who need to set up shop. You pay for that by handing over the amount of printed cows to the stock, each and every time you set up a new 'shop'.

So in your scenario you'd be asked to increase your VR once, and pay a certain amount of cows twice.
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Dave Eisen
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Lepruk wrote:
Hi all,

I am going to be playing this for the first time tomorrow which will include teaching, and thanks to Heavy Cardboard I will be able to teach most things clearly.

However, one thing they didn't cover (as they didn't do it) is taking multiple craftsman on the same turn.

Let's say I take 1 of the primary resources along with the first available card. If I were to then place a second of the same primary (either in the same turn or on subsequent turns) do I pay the cost of the card again? Or is the second placement free?

I know I don't take the second card as you can only have 1 card, but just wondering about the cost of placing an additional craftsman of the same type you already own?

EDIT: Also, do you have to add the VR as well?

Thanks all.



The VR is the cost of acquiring the card. You only pay this once no matter how many craftspeople of that type you build all game.

Each craftsperson you build costs cows as indicated on the card. This is true whether you are building them as part of the same action or building them on a later turn.

The card is taken as part of the action the first time you build a craftsperson of that type. You do not need to and in fact are not permitted to ever get the second card of that type.

I do not understand what you are getting at when you say "take 1 of the primary resources."
 
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Grant
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You pay the cost in cattle shown on the card for each craftsman tile you want to place on the board. You also score the VP shown on the card for each tile placed. The VR addition is for the card itself, so you only pay that once regardless of the number of tiles you place.

EDIT: damn, ninjas! ninja ninja
 
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Luke
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Okay, I think you all cleared it up.

So the cost PRINTED on the card is the cost of acquiring an additional craftsman of a card you already own, but the VR's are the one type punishment of essentially 'developing' that craft.

I knew you couldn't take an additional card, I tried to make that clear in my post, I was simply asking about the cost of taking an additional primary craftsman. Which, I think I have interpreted your answers correctly.

Thanks so much everyone.

EDIT:

Sorry 'primary resource' just slipped out in my initial post, I meant primary craftsman. Apologies for confusion and have edited for clarity.
 
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Maarten D. de Jong
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One tip: drop that dreaded 'primary' and 'secondary craftsman' stuff, and use 'apprentice' and 'master'. It makes the whole somewhat easier to grok and highlights 'for free' the problem of monuments wanting nothing but products from a master.
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Luke
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cymric wrote:
One tip: drop that dreaded 'primary' and 'secondary craftsman' stuff, and use 'apprentice' and 'master'. It makes the whole somewhat easier to grok and highlights 'for free' the problem of monuments wanting nothing but products from a master.


Okay, the rules reference them as primary and secondary, which is why I described it that way.

Thanks for an easier way to teach though. Really appreciate any support!
 
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Phil Campeau
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Just to be clear: you pay the cattle cost for each and every craftsman you put out, including the first one.

The rule is that your VR goes up for acquiring the ability, but it is also required that you use that ability the turn in which you acquire that knowledge.
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Luke
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philcampeau wrote:
Just to be clear: you pay the cattle cost for each and every craftsman you put out, including the first one.

The rule is that your VR goes up for acquiring the ability, but it is also required that you use that ability the turn in which you acquire that knowledge.


That's how I interpreted the response, but thank you for being so clear about it .

The less confusion the better. Still got a few hours before our first game.

We have played FCM at least, so people are at least familiar with Splotter games.
 
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Alex P
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All that will help them with is to understand that they won't be able to understand, clearly, how to win their first (or second) game. :)
 
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Luke
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Ipswich
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Jesse Custer wrote:
All that will help them with is to understand that they won't be able to understand, clearly, how to win their first (or second) game.


haha yup.

A minor second question has popped up about placement. When answering below, assume there's only 1 clay on the whole map (I know that's impossible, but trying to make a clear example).

From the rules a craftsman must be in-range of at least 1 resource not in use by another craftsman. However Apprentices and artisans can share resources (and even block off use if there's only 1 resource in range 3 of both).

So I assume (for example) a potter and a vessel maker can share one resource of clay even though neither would be able to work, as they both need their own resource to work of course.

But 2 potter's can not be placed as in this example there's only 1 clay, and 2 Vessel maker's could not be placed (as the vessel maker's have the same placement rule I.E. can not share a single clay spot with another vessel maker).

Hopefully that's clear, and again, for simplicity I'm assuming there's only 1 clay on the map (to try to get across what I'm actually asking).

EDIT Summary:

With a single clay resource:

Potter + Vessel Maker is legal (though neither can work to upgrade monuments due to all the other rules).

Potter + Potter is illegal

vessel maker + vessel maker is illegal.

Correct?

 
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Phil Campeau
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Yes, 100% correct.
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Luke
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Not that this is a rules question but fyi first game went really well.

Everyone had a good time and really was happy with the rules explanation.

I tried to slow down (as I normally only teach lighter games) and explain everything clearly with examples, and no one got confused with anything .
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