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Subject: What if a player forfeits? rss

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adam mcdonald
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Last night 5 player game a friend forfeit 70% into the game. Anyone else experience this before? Couldn't find mention in rules or forum.

See it wasn't a big deal he forfeited after a massive battle he lost, we just pulled his pieces off the board, but the issue was enlists. Now 2 people are new neighbors.

What do you people think about this, you can't stop somebody from leaving and we're not going to end the game hour and half in. What would you people do?

My opinion is give enlists to the 2 new neighbors. Thoughts?
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Nick Case
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Your 'friend' deserves a slap.
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Derry Salewski
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it's not a rules thing. the rules say to finish the game. as in any game, guy's a douchebag.

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Jamey Stegmaier
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I'm sorry to hear that. I can understand a player forfeiting if they have an emergency--was that the case here?

If someone forfeits, I think you need to remove their pieces from the board. The players on either side of them would now be neighbors for the purposes of recruit ongoing bonuses.
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Désirée Greverud
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from that moment on, enlists apply to the new neighbors.
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Joshua Ryan
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I'm not sure I see the issue. Were the two people on either side planning their enlist bonuses/strategy around his bottom row actions?

Yes, they have a new neighbor, but now they'll get the enlist bonus from the new neighbor instead. I guess it might only matter for one turn if Person A got a bonus from the guy who left, and then because of turn order Person A would be eligible for another bonus with the new neighbor.
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Jason Brown
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I would just play as if he were never there in the first place. If he hadn't swiped his pieces off the board, you could have run an Automa deck for his faction for the rest of the game. Seems easier to just go with the first option, though.
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adam mcdonald
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He left because it was blatantly obvious he was going to lose, 0 popularity, 0 power, 0 stars, entire army forced back to start and hour to go, perhaps newb syndrome. I had 3 or 4 stars and 9 or 10 popularity. I wouldn't have forfeit, but I understand. I mean considering the way I play I doubt I would ever be in his position anyway, but if I was in his position I would go for a personal best. On the plus side we got our turns faster.


Thank you for the answers good to know in case you have a friend that has to leave for a good or bad reason.
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Désirée Greverud
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4 stars? game should be nearing the end
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adam mcdonald
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Could have been 3 stars, bottom line roughly hour left. I get it, some people take so long on their turns. I generally play my turns instantly because I study strats, but for people who don't own the game they need longer to think about their turns. It's just a game, and not a tournament, if a player wants to fold, I honestly don't care, if anything the game will go faster and that dead weight is out of your way. He is getting roasted hard on our group chat right now though lol.

I was thinking of implementing a timer because some people take way too long.
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Donovan Pitkin
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I've seen a similar situation a couple of times with my player group. Once was when someone had to leave because it was getting late. Another couple times was probably about half way through the game, someone got annihilated in a big battle, losing all their power and resources, sent back to base. I think it was when someone had to work the next day or they had some other plans that night and didn't want to sit through the rest of the game. It's technically a forfeit but it's kind of like being eliminated if they lost enough stuff. It's a shitty situation, but all your actions in the game are for the purpose of competing with the other players. If you've been set back to the point of no longer competing, I kind of understand. It is a long game to sit through when it's futile. As you said, 4 stars is getting pretty close to the end of the game and someone with 0 power, 0 popularity, 0 resources is dead. What color were they playing as that they were so far gone?
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Gavin Scaife
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1 Tell them to man up and keep playing.
2 consider their inclusion in future games
3 tell them to not be so selfish
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Paul Wise
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If I quit every game I knew I had no chance of winning, I'm sure my invitation to play with my current gaming group would be rescinded.
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Ben Turner
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+1 to this being a "poor move" by the player involved. Wouldn't expect to invite him to similar games again - Scythe might not be TOO impacted by a player forfeiting, but for other games this is a "well, we may as well stop there then" move.
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Désirée Greverud
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wow, I'm appreciating my group so much more now. We've had people leave mid game (usually due to time, sometimes due to boredom or frustration) and not once has the idea of not allowing the person back ever come up. They're just games, and those are real people with real lives and real emotions. One of those is more important than the other. Glad our group falls on the right side of that one. You will never convince me that forcing someone to be miserable for another hour or 2 because you're playing a game is the right thing to do.
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Donovan Pitkin
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Agreed. I'm surprised at how many people are so offended by someone forfeiting. Not only does it suck to make someone sit through a futile game as long as Scythe, but it's also a game where every player is mostly doing their own thing. I totally understand how you'd be pissed if it's a game where a person leaving disrupts the other players or affects future scenarios, but in Scythe it really just changes who you get recruit bonuses from.
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Robert Stewart
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For me, it depends on the game and on the player's reasons for leaving. Last night, we were playing Takenoko, about 1-2 rounds from the end, when a player's taxi arrived and they had to leave. We just played out the last couple of rounds, skipping their turn.

That was pretty much the ideal situation - a game players could drop out of without causing disruption, and a player with a hard time-limit in place before the game started, and controlled by external factors.

At the other extreme, if a player makes a habit of walking off mid-game when they get bored, or start feeling like they're losing, or an ice-cream van drives past, or whatever, then I'm going to make a habit of not playing (certain) games with that person...
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Klaus T.
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I would just remove him and his tokens from the board, and make new neighbors.

But first I'd try to convince him to stay. Even though he may not have a chance of winning, he could still end up becoming somewhat a kingmaker, or at the least, he could maybe learn a thing or two from finishing the game.

Other than that, I would be okay with a player leaving the game for certain reasons, but just leaving because "I'm no longer able to win", would probably be okay once, but if that player makes a habit of it - very annoying.
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Dave Mendiola
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DragonsDream wrote:
wow, I'm appreciating my group so much more now. We've had people leave mid game (usually due to time, sometimes due to boredom or frustration) and not once has the idea of not allowing the person back ever come up. They're just games, and those are real people with real lives and real emotions. One of those is more important than the other. Glad our group falls on the right side of that one. You will never convince me that forcing someone to be miserable for another hour or 2 because you're playing a game is the right thing to do.


I see it more as a respect thing. You all agreed to play this game. Everyone else is still enjoying the game. As most games can't accommodate changing player mid-game, you're effectively ending the game early. So by leaving, you're breaking an assumed agreement to finish up the game, sacrificing their enjoyment to limit your own annoyance.

Now obviously there are exceptions to this. If an emergency occurs, I won't think anything less of you for leaving. If the game is taking way longer than expected, I can understand wanting to head out. Or if it's a 2 player game and you ask to forfeit, that seems better, as you're directly awarding the win to the other player.

But outside of these, it seems to me to be an issue. Yeah, you have the right to do this, but I certainly am going to be hesitant to play with you again if at the first sign of loss, you're simply going to leave.
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adam mcdonald
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Afrofrycook wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
wow, I'm appreciating my group so much more now. We've had people leave mid game (usually due to time, sometimes due to boredom or frustration) and not once has the idea of not allowing the person back ever come up. They're just games, and those are real people with real lives and real emotions. One of those is more important than the other. Glad our group falls on the right side of that one. You will never convince me that forcing someone to be miserable for another hour or 2 because you're playing a game is the right thing to do.


I see it more as a respect thing. You all agreed to play this game. Everyone else is still enjoying the game. As most games can't accommodate changing player mid-game, you're effectively ending the game early. So by leaving, you're breaking an assumed agreement to finish up the game, sacrificing their enjoyment to limit your own annoyance.

Now obviously there are exceptions to this. If an emergency occurs, I won't think anything less of you for leaving. If the game is taking way longer than expected, I can understand wanting to head out. Or if it's a 2 player game and you ask to forfeit, that seems better, as you're directly awarding the win to the other player.

But outside of these, it seems to me to be an issue. Yeah, you have the right to do this, but I certainly am going to be hesitant to play with you again if at the first sign of loss, you're simply going to leave.


I agree with the respect, but a justified reason seems we mostly agree. In rare cases people get TKOed with nothing, 60-70% through the game, I'm okay with them folding, because that player is dead weight to the game and you can play your turns faster, it only benefits you. The fold seems justified, likely the reason he folded was because his pieces aren't even on the board sent home base, 0 power, 0 popularity, 0-1 stars and 2 other players are clearly dominating. When they leave, it barely affects the game. Completely different if someone folds with mechs and workers out on the board.
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Donovan Pitkin
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I think it entirely depends on the situation. It doesn't sound like this is a "I'm gonna quit every time I'm losing" kind of thing. As OP said it's a full blown TKO. It's one thing to be further behind the other players; because you still have a chance, or you have some stuff you can still do in the game; that happens to everyone. But on the rare occasion in a game like Scythe where there are battles that can leave a player with no resources and no power/popularity, I don't see a problem just sitting out if you don't want to claw your way back. It's not so much a forfeit as it is an elimination. It doesn't spoil anything for anyone. There are other games where forfeiting would disrupt the game, in which case that would certainly be frowned upon. Of course most people would just stay in the game and play anyway, but if you've got somewhere else to be I see no problem just bowing out. A lot of my friends have left games before. 2-3 hour games can cause this sort of thing.
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Stephen Miller
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Afrofrycook wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
wow, I'm appreciating my group so much more now. We've had people leave mid game (usually due to time, sometimes due to boredom or frustration) and not once has the idea of not allowing the person back ever come up. They're just games, and those are real people with real lives and real emotions. One of those is more important than the other. Glad our group falls on the right side of that one. You will never convince me that forcing someone to be miserable for another hour or 2 because you're playing a game is the right thing to do.


I see it more as a respect thing. You all agreed to play this game. Everyone else is still enjoying the game. As most games can't accommodate changing player mid-game, you're effectively ending the game early. So by leaving, you're breaking an assumed agreement to finish up the game, sacrificing their enjoyment to limit your own annoyance.

Now obviously there are exceptions to this. If an emergency occurs, I won't think anything less of you for leaving. If the game is taking way longer than expected, I can understand wanting to head out. Or if it's a 2 player game and you ask to forfeit, that seems better, as you're directly awarding the win to the other player.

But outside of these, it seems to me to be an issue. Yeah, you have the right to do this, but I certainly am going to be hesitant to play with you again if at the first sign of loss, you're simply going to leave.


Indeed - When life happens, it happens, and when games run longer than you've had time for, that's another thing entirely, but dropping out of a multiplayer game that isn't one of the scant few that can accommodate that because you're doing badly is a major breach of social contracts involved. (Multiplayer as opposed to two player or solo)
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Y P
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DragonsDream wrote:
wow, I'm appreciating my group so much more now. We've had people leave mid game (usually due to time, sometimes due to boredom or frustration) and not once has the idea of not allowing the person back ever come up. They're just games, and those are real people with real lives and real emotions. One of those is more important than the other. Glad our group falls on the right side of that one. You will never convince me that forcing someone to be miserable for another hour or 2 because you're playing a game is the right thing to do.


It's not about forcing anyone to do anything. If someone wants to quit, nobody is going to try to strong-arm them into staying. Well almost nobody--I'm sure someone out there would, but you get my point.

It's more about shared expectations and a sense of community. Yeah those are real emotions, but adults have learned to control their emotions and sometimes sacrifice their immediate impulse for the good of others. What about the emotions of the other 3-4 players at the table whose experience you're lessening because you can't stand to see the game through just because you're badly losing? Are those emotions any less real? I expect all players to be good sports, and if you can't be then by all means remove yourself from play as to not sour the rest of the game even worse, but don't make a habit of rage-quitting. Adults should be embarrassed that something that is "just games" like you said can invoke such a strong response that the only viable solution is to quit.

Note that of course life happens. Babysitter calls with an emergency, game ran longer than expected, headache developed while playing--there are a plethora of valid reasons for quitting mid-game. But rage-quitting due to sore loser syndrome isn't one of them IMO. Not saying the OP's friend was like that--I wasn't there so I can't tell--just stating a general truism in my view.

But you're right that different groups can have different approaches. I'm glad you have a group that works for you. Doesn't make your approach "right" just because it works best for you though.
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adam mcdonald
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MentatYP wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
wow, I'm appreciating my group so much more now. We've had people leave mid game (usually due to time, sometimes due to boredom or frustration) and not once has the idea of not allowing the person back ever come up. They're just games, and those are real people with real lives and real emotions. One of those is more important than the other. Glad our group falls on the right side of that one. You will never convince me that forcing someone to be miserable for another hour or 2 because you're playing a game is the right thing to do.


It's not about forcing anyone to do anything. If someone wants to quit, nobody is going to try to strong-arm them into staying. Well almost nobody--I'm sure someone out there would, but you get my point.

It's more about shared expectations and a sense of community. Yeah those are real emotions, but adults have learned to control their emotions and sometimes sacrifice their immediate impulse for the good of others. What about the emotions of the other 3-4 players at the table whose experience you're lessening because you can't stand to see the game through just because you're badly losing? Are those emotions any less real? I expect all players to be good sports, and if you can't be then by all means remove yourself from play as to not sour the rest of the game even worse, but don't make a habit of rage-quitting. Adults should be embarrassed that something that is "just games" like you said can invoke such a strong response that the only viable solution is to quit.

Note that of course life happens. Babysitter calls with an emergency, game ran longer than expected, headache developed while playing--there are a plethora of valid reasons for quitting mid-game. But rage-quitting due to sore loser syndrome isn't one of them IMO. Not saying the OP's friend was like that--I wasn't there so I can't tell--just stating a general truism in my view.

But you're right that different groups can have different approaches. I'm glad you have a group that works for you. Doesn't make your approach "right" just because it works best for you though.


I think if someone is in a position of elimination he's playing poorly and needs to look at ways to stabilize and stengthen his scythe economy. If they're at rock bottom and want to fold, same as poker when someone is out of chips.
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Donovan Pitkin
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MentatYP wrote:

But rage-quitting due to sore loser syndrome isn't one of them IMO. Not saying the OP's friend was like that--I wasn't there so I can't tell--just stating a general truism in my view.


If it was a rage-quit, that's one thing... But I've played games where someone just gets knocked into oblivion and are like "I guess that's it for me." In a game where it's a race to the finish, and every turn matters, if someone gets knocked several turns behind everyone else, it's over for them. And by the sounds of OPs situation, that player was undoubtedly out. They can stick around just to do it, but I'm happy to see someone resign when it's a long game with a bunch of people taking turns. It doesn't have to be a sportsmanship issue.
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