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Leaving Earth: Outer Planets» Forums » Rules

Subject: Clarification on Jupiter/Saturn Hazards rss

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Jim Scheiderich
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Please be gentle - last time I asked for clarification I got slapped around some...gulp

When you leave Jupiter, Saturn or Uranus Fly-by locations for the next one upstream, that is: Jupiter > Saturn; Saturn > Uranus and Uranus > Neptune, each shows the planetary hazard symbol, followed by timer icons and finally the Solar rad hazard. These are resolved left to right.

By use of example, Saturn is 2 years out from Jupiter and since it is preceded by the Jupiter hazard symbol, the rules state (and damned if I can find the reference)that you face the hazard for each year of the maneuver. So you are travelling at least 500M miles to Saturn from Jupiter and the hazard applies the entire way? The same would seem to apply to the Saturn-Uranus route which is a billion miles (based on orbits NOT locations) and is 5 years long. To me it would make more sense, both practically and thematically, to apply only in the year of departure...

If this is the correct way to play, I am fine with that. If not please explain how these hazards apply.

And yes, thank you and my apologies if I missed a post on this.

 
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Israel Waldrom
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The Hazards are only faced once each maneuver, not once each year.

When a spacecraft has time tokens on it, it is unable to perform any maneuvers at all until they are gone - this includes hazards and 'lost'.
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Robert Manning
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'Outer Planets rules, p. 9' wrote:
Always face maneuver hazards in the order their symbols are written in. For example, going from Jupiter Orbit to Io, you face Jupiter’s hazard immediately, then you may add time tokens, then on arrival you face Landing and whatever hazard Io presents.
The Jupiter hazard is faced once during the maneuver; you don't face it again when removing time tokens.
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Jim Scheiderich
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Thank you for your answer!
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Larry L
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mogust wrote:
The Hazards are only faced once each maneuver, not once each year.

When a spacecraft has time tokens on it, it is unable to perform any maneuvers at all until they are gone - this includes hazards and 'lost'.


Although spacecrafts with time tokens on them don't perform maneuvers, they can face hazards. These hazards are marked in the center of the card, specifically Jupiter Orbit and Saturn Orbit. It is true they do not continue to face the hazards from maneuvers, though.
 
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Joe Fatula
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Let's say you're maneuvering from Jupiter Fly-By to Saturn Fly-By.

The Maneuver
First there's the maneuver itself. Take a look at the Jupiter Fly-By card to see the maneuver. It can be described like this:

* from: Jupiter Fly-By
* to: Saturn Fly-By
* difficulty: 0
* availability: Saturn years only (look at the calendar)
* effects: Jupiter hazard, 2 years, Solar hazard

So let's perform the maneuver. If it's not a Saturn year (on the calendar) then this maneuver isn't even possible (so we'll assume it's a Saturn year). The difficulty is zero, so you don't need any thrust, just announce that you're performing the maneuver.

First you face the Jupiter hazard. To find out what it is, turn over the Jupiter location card. It's probably radiation, so you roll the die and see what happens.

Next you put two time tokens on your spacecraft.

Lastly you face the Solar hazard, described on the Solar location card. It's probably radiation as well, so you roll the die and see what happens.

Now move your spacecraft token to the Saturn Fly-By location card.

En Route
At the end of each year, remove one time token from your spacecraft. If there is an end-of-year hazard at your location, you face that hazard each year, even if you have time tokens left.

So let's look at the Saturn Fly-By location card. There is no end-of-year hazard on this card, so you don't face any hazard here each year.

Theme vs. Mechanics
Thematically, you only face Jupiter's radiation once, just as you're passing by Jupiter. That's why the Jupiter hazard is on the outbound maneuver from Jupiter Fly-By. If you decide to slingshot past Saturn as well, headed for Uranus, you'll face Saturn's hazard when you leave Saturn Fly-By.

Now let's consider what would have happened if you went from Jupiter Fly-By to Jupiter Orbit. First you'd face the Jupiter hazard upon performing the maneuver, then you'd move your spacecraft token to the Jupiter Orbit card. At the end of each year in Jupiter Orbit (whether you have time tokens or not) you'd face the end-of-year hazard there, the Jupiter hazard. Staying in the Jupiter neighborhood means you face Jupiter's radiation.
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Andrew McBrien
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buffalohat wrote:
Let's say you're maneuvering from Jupiter Fly-By to Saturn Fly-By.

The Maneuver
First there's the maneuver itself. Take a look at the Jupiter Fly-By card to see the maneuver. It can be described like this:

* from: Jupiter Fly-By
* to: Saturn Fly-By
* difficulty: 0
* availability: Saturn years only (look at the calendar)
* effects: Jupiter hazard, 2 years, Solar hazard

So let's perform the maneuver. If it's not a Saturn year (on the calendar) then this maneuver isn't even possible (so we'll assume it's a Saturn year). The difficulty is zero, so you don't need any thrust, just announce that you're performing the maneuver.

First you face the Jupiter hazard. To find out what it is, turn over the Jupiter location card. It's probably radiation, so you roll the die and see what happens.

Next you put two time tokens on your spacecraft.

Lastly you face the Solar hazard, described on the Solar location card. It's probably radiation as well, so you roll the die and see what happens.

Now move your spacecraft token to the Saturn Fly-By location card.

En Route
At the end of each year, remove one time token from your spacecraft. If there is an end-of-year hazard at your location, you face that hazard each year, even if you have time tokens left.

So let's look at the Saturn Fly-By location card. There is no end-of-year hazard on this card, so you don't face any hazard here each year.


This isn't actually the procedure described in the rulebook.

According to the flow chart on the back cover of the rulebook, the Jupiter fly-by to Saturn fly-by maneuver would be resolved in the following sequence:

Produce thrust (difficulty zero so no thrust required)
Face Jupiter hazard (roll die; see what happens)
Move craft to destination
Add time tokens, and then wait until all tokens have been removed
Face Solar hazard (roll die; see what happens)
Maneuver complete

This order of events is also confirmed in the footnote on page 24:

'A few maneuvers (such as to Ceres) have hazards listed after time/radiation. These take place upon arrival, when the last time token is removed.'
 
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Larry L
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There is a specific exception for solar radiation:

the rules wrote:
Astronauts face the solar radiation hazard at the
start of a maneuver when time tokens are added; do not roll the die for radiation again while the maneuver is taking place.
 
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Andrew McBrien
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RingelTree wrote:
There is a specific exception for solar radiation:

the rules wrote:
Astronauts face the solar radiation hazard at the
start of a maneuver when time tokens are added; do not roll the die for radiation again while the maneuver is taking place.

Thanks RingelTree, somehow I missed that one. Turns out the designer does actually know what he's talking about
 
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Joe Fatula
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macbee wrote:
Turns out the designer does actually know what he's talking about

Not as often as you might expect.
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Jim Scheiderich
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Joe, thanks - I had all of that straight but wanted to confirm that - as in your example - you only faced the Hazard once when outbound.

Your game is devilishly clever. devil
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David Griffin
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If you flip Jupiter in order to suffer the hazard, does this constitute "surveying" Jupiter and/or "revealing" Jupiter? Does it require that you have the Survey advancement and if so does it require you spend your 1 and only 1 survey on the card to flip Jupiter's card?

I left this and other questions on the basic game forum. Sorry maybe should have left them here but in past experience expansion forums are usually sparsely populated and I had basic questions too.
 
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Josh Zscheile
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That question was already answered: you do not need the Surveying Technology for any basic exploration mission. However, you need it for the Advanced Survey missions, as you need a Galileo probe to do these, and Galileo needs Surveying.
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David Griffin
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Dagar wrote:
That question was already answered: you do not need the Surveying Technology for any basic exploration mission. However, you need it for the Advanced Survey missions, as you need a Galileo probe to do these, and Galileo needs Surveying.


I suspect it still works even if you have a rocket composed entirely of damaged components.
 
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Joe Fatula
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carbon_dragon wrote:
Dagar wrote:
That question was already answered: you do not need the Surveying Technology for any basic exploration mission. However, you need it for the Advanced Survey missions, as you need a Galileo probe to do these, and Galileo needs Surveying.


I suspect it still works even if you have a rocket composed entirely of damaged components.

Exactly. When you face a hazard, you look at the location card to see what the hazard does.
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