Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Pax Porfiriana» Forums » Rules

Subject: Topple tiebreaker rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Dave Blizzard
Canada
Salt Spring Island
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
A few of us are just learning Pax and playing on Yucata. In a recent game, one player started a Topple in Outrage as he had 4 points in it. Another player had 2 Outrage points. Diaz and the other two players in the game only had 1 in total.

Well we expected both of the players to succeed in the Topple and the player with 4 Outrage points to win.

But to our surprise the player with 2 Outrage points won because he had more Gold. We thought it might be a bug in the Yucata program but when we checked the rules, it said the player with the most Gold wins.

This seemed very strange to us.

I was wondering if anyone knows why Gold was the tiebreaker and not the player with the most Outrage points?

Thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Australia
NSW
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think about it like this.

The population is outraged on behalf of the hacendado, because of all the terrible things that have happened to him. In order for them to be outraged enough that they will allow the US to intervene - again on behalf of the hacendado - there is a tipping point. That tipping point is at 50%. If more than half of the terrible things have happened to him, that's enough. But if outrage exists, but mostly for other hacendado's, it's not enough for the US to make a move. The waters are too muddy. Who will the population support? It's not clear enough.... and so the US declines to become involved.

Except then, it's the end of the game. Thematically, Diaz is still in charge. No-one has managed to get rid of him. So itvthen comes down to, who has become more successful over time? Well, the person with the most money.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Francisco
United States
Cumberland
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
To me, thematically, it means that the Hacendados were unable to topple Diaz, so now having the most money/power puts you at the top of the food chain.

Incidentally, in Pax Renaissance, money is only the second tiebreaker, the first being the Patronage prestige points, which helped me win the last game I played. Very nice wrinkle.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marty Sample
United States
MILFORD
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The thing to be mindful of when playing on Yucate is to pay attention to which variant you are playing with.

Iron Hand: the two STRONGEST Prestige players are added to Diaz

Diaz Senility - first Topple he's worth 3 points, next two he's worth 2 points, final one he's worth only 1 point.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin
United States
San Diego area
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
davebliz wrote:


I was wondering if anyone knows why Gold was the tiebreaker and not the player with the most Outrage points?

Thanks.


Gold is used as the tiebreaker because the end game is broken into two specific phases.

Phase one asks: Is Diaz overturned? This is a measurement of prestige points, and it has a binary answer: yes or no

Phase two asks: Who can best take advantage of the power vacuum? That takes organization, bribes, all the stuff that makes money the most important measure. It doesn't matter which candidate the people want at that point, just which one has the resources to seize the moment.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorik
Netherlands
Utrecht
Utrecht
flag msg tools
badge
How sticky is your ZOC?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
itsmarty wrote:
davebliz wrote:


I was wondering if anyone knows why Gold was the tiebreaker and not the player with the most Outrage points?

Thanks.


Gold is used as the tiebreaker because the end game is broken into two specific phases.

Phase one asks: Is Diaz overturned? This is a measurement of prestige points, and it has a binary answer: yes or no

Phase two asks: Who can best take advantage of the power vacuum? That takes organization, bribes, all the stuff that makes money the most important measure. It doesn't matter which candidate the people want at that point, just which one has the resources to seize the moment.


that's a very neat way of putting it
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin G
United Kingdom
Bristol
flag msg tools
badge
Don't fall in love with me yet, we only recently met
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
HerrJork wrote:
itsmarty wrote:
Gold is used as the tiebreaker because the end game is broken into two specific phases.

Phase one asks: Is Diaz overturned? This is a measurement of prestige points, and it has a binary answer: yes or no

Phase two asks: Who can best take advantage of the power vacuum? That takes organization, bribes, all the stuff that makes money the most important measure. It doesn't matter which candidate the people want at that point, just which one has the resources to seize the moment.


that's a very neat way of putting it


Yep, exactly how I think of it too.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Australia
NSW
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If Diaz isn't overturned though there can't be a power vacuum. There's no moment to seize - the moment was the topple, and it is gone. The only thing left to seperate out the landowners is, who's the richest?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin G
United Kingdom
Bristol
flag msg tools
badge
Don't fall in love with me yet, we only recently met
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
casualcasual wrote:
If Diaz isn't overturned though there can't be a power vacuum. There's no moment to seize - the moment was the topple, and it is gone. The only thing left to seperate out the landowners is, who's the richest?


I think you're answering a different question, about the Gold victory at the end of the game if there are no topplers. The OP was asking about the situation when there is more than one successful Toppler and the tie is broken by gold.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gillum the Stoor
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
senorcoo wrote:
In Pax Renaissance, money is only the second tiebreaker, the first being the Patronage prestige points, which helped me win the last game I played. Very nice wrinkle.

The way I see PaxRen victory is the following.

The game specifies 5 different victory conditions.

Four of them are activated by a player purchasing a special (Comet) card from the market (one condition activated for each Comet).

Comets differ from Topples in that they don't trigger victory - they just activate a condition.

In his turn, a player may choose a "victory action" as one of his two per-turn actions.

The player wins if, having done so, he wins according to one of the victory conditions that have been activated.

(My understanding is that choosing the "victory action" when you wouldn't win according to one of those conditions does nothing and is just a waste.)

If the draw decks are emptied before any player wins as above, the game ends. At that point, the fifth condition (which requires no activation by a Comet) comes into play. The game is won by the player with the most Patron Prestige. If there is a tie, the game is won by the tied player with the most Florins (gold).

Thus, I see money as being a tiebreaker for Patron Victory - but a Patron Victory doesn't feel like a tiebreaker but rather the PaxRen analogue to PaxPor's Gold Victory - how the game ends when players "play out the clock."

(I know - wrong forum.)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Australia
NSW
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
qwertymartin wrote:
casualcasual wrote:
If Diaz isn't overturned though there can't be a power vacuum. There's no moment to seize - the moment was the topple, and it is gone. The only thing left to seperate out the landowners is, who's the richest?


I think you're answering a different question, about the Gold victory at the end of the game if there are no topplers. The OP was asking about the situation when there is more than one successful Toppler and the tie is broken by gold.


I am too... cheers! Makes sense. It felt like I was missing something!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.