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Subject: 2.5.1 Groups rss

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Adam Parker
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Dean in 2.5.1 on p7 of the revised rules you mention that fighters and bombers were organized into "Groups" of 48 aircraft each.

I think of course, you're talking about "Wings" comprising 3 Groups of 16 aircraft each. And this is reflected next page when you talk about the 16 strengths of Groups in the game.

It's probably easier to change 2.5.1 to "16 aircraft" then and leave the word "Groups". Though if you can, I also feel it's still a good idea if you'd like to tell gamers about Wings and Divisions too as background.

Cheers,
Adam.

 
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michael esposito
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I think you are mistaken. In the USAAF, fighter squadrons were 12-18 aircraft. 3 squadrons made up a group, 3 groups a wing.

Bombers were indeed as you say.. IIRC
 
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Ted Leiker
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The heavy bomber groups were composed of four squadrons. And I believe I read somewhere that the squadrons were between 8 and 12 aircraft each.

I also believe I read somewhere that in theory the group would fly a mission sending three of the four squadrons at a time, resting and rotating one squadron, but in practice this rarely worked out due to losses, mechanical issues, and just the need to put the most ordnance possible on target.
 
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Mike Adams
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USAAF structure in WWII was as follows.

Squadrons to Groups
Groups to Wings
Wings to Air Divisions
Air Divisions to Command

For a complete listing of 8th Air Force Bomber Command see my earlier posting "8th Air Force Bomber Command Structure"


Now the RAF did it a little different.

Squadrons to Wings
Wings to Groups
Groups to Command.

The modern day USAF has done away with Groups altogether with Squadrons attached directly to Wings.
 
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Adam Parker
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You know, and I flip to page 8 and there it's quoted - something not in the original rules:

Key Points: "All Groups start with a Strength of 16 (1 Strength = 3 aircraft)."

And here I was thinking the game flew Groups at an abstracted operational strength of 16 planes.

In fact the abstraction here is to put all groups at a strength approaching 1944-45.

Which makes 2.5.1 valid as written.

I wonder how many gamers currently playing this game are aware of this? It's a paradigm changer for me.

Nice debate though, guys.
 
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Dean Brown
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The BG stands for Bombardment Group. For Heavy Bombers, the typical aircraft count is 48. The numbers on the cards are historical Bombardment Groups.
 
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Adam Parker
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It's good you've put it in the rules as a design note, Dean. Abstraction is good so long as it's plausible in my opinion and this new design insight (for me) doesn't stretch it beyond.

I mean, we often saw Groups flying 18-20 aircraft per mission given the maintenance cycle. But pegging the concept at a fixed TO&E somewhere in the middle of 1943-45 establishment works. It illustrates op tempo overall.
 
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