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Subject: First play help rss

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Ray S
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Hey Everyone,

I just picked up MK and am getting ready for my first play in the next week or so.

I was just wondering what advice you would give to get going for a smooth first solo play? I plan on watching Rick Royals eight part youtube video and reading though the walk through book this week.

Should I focus on anything else?

What are some common mistakes a new player might make?

Thanks.
 
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Jon W
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Of course it will depend on your personality and tolerance, but I recommend just blowing through your first game as quickly as possible. If you hit a thorny rule issue, just set it aside (write it down) and move past it.

If you're really stuck, of course consult the guide or rules (or video), but I think this way gets you to the bigger picture stuff (I have to go how far? I have to beat what at the end? How can this possibly be done!?) faster. I think it's easy to get buried in tedium.

Just accept you'll lose the first game, but get the big picture in mind and overall flow. Then, your second game, when you drill into the stuff you missed, will make much more sense in context.

Just my $.02, I'm sure there are many other good ways. Enjoy!
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Nicholas Vaccaro
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Not sure if you're planning to play with a group, but there are solo rules available. Definitely play through a game or two if you can.

This list contains commonly-missed rules: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/740856/commonly-missed-rule.... Once you've got the basic flow of the game down (player turns and the day/night cycle), focus on that list.

Good luck!
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Vadim Golembo
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Check out the file section.
Plenty of great resources there.
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Ray S
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I will be playing solo.
 
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David Griffin
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The Reconnaissance version (solo variant) is the way to go. It introduces you to the system without requiring that you know the game well enough to power up enough to take on 2 cities at the end.

That said, you should try to do the same recruiting, leveling you would HAVE to do if you were playing solo conquest because your next game will probably require you to take on the cities and it will be good training.

Kill some orcs, take on a fortress and maybe a mage tower. Try things out. Since you only have to sight the city and you can be damaged when you do that, don't be too afraid to try things out and see what it takes to defeat various opponents.

You can do that same easy mission more than once if you need to build up your skills. it's more difficult when it gets to having to take on cities with a bunch of tokens all at the same time.
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Ray S
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I plan on just playing a number of games over the next few weeks. Going to take is slow and easy and just have the game set up on the table to come back and forth to.

I looked at the commonly missed rules thread Nicholas suggested, but still have a few pages to read through there.

Vadim...do you have any suggested resources in the file section? There are quite a few.
 
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Boss Beau Blasterfire
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There are some terrific player aids which can help distill the information in the rule books to further aid you in learning the game. I highly recommend that you print some out. I especially like the flow charts.

I think one of the things that people have a harder time understanding is the combat system. Make sure you understand before you start and you should be able to play pretty smoothly without much difficulty.
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Ali Cali
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You've got a good base by doing the walkthrough and using the videos. Be sure to read the walkthrough carefully, and don't just assume you know what the walkthrough would say. I see mistakes and confusion all the time because the rulebook was just skimmed, especially in combat (like how armor does NOT equal block).

I did not use the dummy on my first play just to get the mechanics of the turns, understanding that I normally would be pushed for time a little bit. My second game was the regular city conquest and with the dummy player.
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Ray S
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I don't think I'll use the dummy the first play through with the understanding that time is not an issue in doing so. Might only play for a couple day/night changes and then call it a day.

Then go back re-read and re-watch the videos and play again with the dummy hand the second time.

Probably won't get to the game till middle of next week, but if I have any questions while reading the walk through or watching the videos will stop back in and ask.
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N F
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Download the Dummy player app for Mage Knight. It is the best!
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David Griffin
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sevitrm wrote:
I don't think I'll use the dummy the first play through with the understanding that time is not an issue in doing so. Might only play for a couple day/night changes and then call it a day.

Then go back re-read and re-watch the videos and play again with the dummy hand the second time.

Probably won't get to the game till middle of next week, but if I have any questions while reading the walk through or watching the videos will stop back in and ask.


I have used the dummy player (cards, not an app) in both Mage Knight and Star Trek Frontiers. Whether it matters depends on whether you tend to play a lot of cards (how fast you play, not in time but in cards). Some people DO tend to play a few cards and then redraw to increase their chances.

I guess I'm too hyper because the dummy player has only cut off my last turn once in both games (in Frontiers) when I still had a couple of cards left in my draw stack. So the dummy player tends to put pressure on you if you try to play slowly.

That said the manual itself says that in your first play, doing without the dummy player is a good option because it lets you take more time to think carefully about your play while you're learning the game.
 
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Rodney Cockrell
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I'm a new player (solo) but here are a few things that have been helpful:

1. Don't burn through your cards as fast as you can. Sometimes, a turn might just be discarding a card to draw a new one. I think this is where the timing of the dummy player might control the tempo more. I haven't been using the dummy.
2. Collect mana! Relying on the source for a single die won't help later on when you need 3 crystals to power a spell.
3. I just learned yesterday after re-reading something that when you collect an artefact, you get to draw 2 and keep 1. Artefacts are your friend. If it's near the end of the game, burn down those monasteries!
 
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David Griffin
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Rodzilla68 wrote:
I'm a new player (solo) but here are a few things that have been helpful:

1. Don't burn through your cards as fast as you can. Sometimes, a turn might just be discarding a card to draw a new one. I think this is where the timing of the dummy player might control the tempo more. I haven't been using the dummy.


I don't do this personally, but this is the kind of play which the dummy would stop because it becomes risky. All the dummy does is produce an "adversary" which draws 3 cards +X where X varies by chance depending on what cards are on offer at the end of turns. So it is there to directly prevent this.

That said, usually when I have a hand of cards, it's not just one of them I want to replace!
 
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carbon_dragon wrote:
All the dummy does is produce an "adversary" which draws 3 cards +X where X varies by chance depending on what cards are on offer at the end of turns. So it is there to directly prevent this.

I am sorry, but statements like this always rub me the wrong way
I am an advocate of the dummy and personally have used the app maybe once, I do not get what the issue with having a deck of cards is. When learning the game, the dummy is certainly not important, but otherwise I really like the design.

I wrote a longer reply about this topic some time ago and still stand by what I said there: Re: Not a Review: No Dummy + Don't Overthink It
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David Griffin
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cityofsolitude wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:
All the dummy does is produce an "adversary" which draws 3 cards +X where X varies by chance depending on what cards are on offer at the end of turns. So it is there to directly prevent this.

I am sorry, but statements like this always rub me the wrong way
I am an advocate of the dummy and personally have used the app maybe once, I do not get what the issue with having a deck of cards is. When learning the game, the dummy is certainly not important, but otherwise I really like the design.

I wrote a longer reply about this topic some time ago and still stand by what I said there: Re: Not a Review: No Dummy + Don't Overthink It


I don't like the dummy either. I don't think it's important to 'SPEED UP' the player and since I'm aggressive in this sort of game it rarely affects me anyway.
 
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carbon_dragon wrote:
cityofsolitude wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:
All the dummy does is produce an "adversary" which draws 3 cards +X where X varies by chance depending on what cards are on offer at the end of turns. So it is there to directly prevent this.

I am sorry, but statements like this always rub me the wrong way
I am an advocate of the dummy and personally have used the app maybe once, I do not get what the issue with having a deck of cards is. When learning the game, the dummy is certainly not important, but otherwise I really like the design.

I wrote a longer reply about this topic some time ago and still stand by what I said there: Re: Not a Review: No Dummy + Don't Overthink It


I don't like the dummy either. I don't think it's important to 'SPEED UP' the player and since I'm aggressive in this sort of game it rarely affects me anyway.


I have the exact opposite opinion (as you can read in the linked reply), I like the dummy a lot. I am sorry if my misuse of "adversary" (I meant "advocate" and corrected it) mislead you
 
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Ray S
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I don't think I will have a problem with a dummy or the extra deck of cards it requires. I just feel for the first game I am probably going to skip it and focus on the game play. Once I feel like I have that down then I'll add it in.
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Zeus Cat

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I think skipping the dummy leaves out a very important part of the game. The dummy forces you to keep up a certain pace. If you leave out the dummy you get a false sense of the pace you can use in a real game.
 
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Ali Cali
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Zeuscat wrote:
I think skipping the dummy leaves out a very important part of the game. The dummy forces you to keep up a certain pace. If you leave out the dummy you get a false sense of the pace you can use in a real game.
For the very first game, I advocate leaving out dummy, as there is enough to learn and remember, so long as you realize you can't just sit in a spot and use only one card the whole round.

From game #2 and beyond, the dummy should be used, as the initial learning is complete.
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David Griffin
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aliallison wrote:
Zeuscat wrote:
I think skipping the dummy leaves out a very important part of the game. The dummy forces you to keep up a certain pace. If you leave out the dummy you get a false sense of the pace you can use in a real game.
For the very first game, I advocate leaving out dummy, as there is enough to learn and remember, so long as you realize you can't just sit in a spot and use only one card the whole round.

From game #2 and beyond, the dummy should be used, as the initial learning is complete.


Though it's your game. If you don't want the dummy hurrying you along, leave it out. It will be a more cerebral, thoughtful game.
 
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Slamin Perfect
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carbon_dragon wrote:
aliallison wrote:
Zeuscat wrote:
I think skipping the dummy leaves out a very important part of the game. The dummy forces you to keep up a certain pace. If you leave out the dummy you get a false sense of the pace you can use in a real game.
For the very first game, I advocate leaving out dummy, as there is enough to learn and remember, so long as you realize you can't just sit in a spot and use only one card the whole round.

From game #2 and beyond, the dummy should be used, as the initial learning is complete.


Though it's your game. If you don't want the dummy hurrying you along, leave it out. It will be a more cerebral, thoughtful game.


I am in agreement that a player may of course play their own game as they feel. I don't agree that that change makes it more "cerebral" or "thoughtful". Taking away that variable makes is less so in my opinion. It is not a real-time pressure which when lessened would give more time for thought and reflection.
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David Griffin
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Slamin wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:
aliallison wrote:
Zeuscat wrote:
I think skipping the dummy leaves out a very important part of the game. The dummy forces you to keep up a certain pace. If you leave out the dummy you get a false sense of the pace you can use in a real game.
For the very first game, I advocate leaving out dummy, as there is enough to learn and remember, so long as you realize you can't just sit in a spot and use only one card the whole round.

From game #2 and beyond, the dummy should be used, as the initial learning is complete.


Though it's your game. If you don't want the dummy hurrying you along, leave it out. It will be a more cerebral, thoughtful game.


I am in agreement that a player may of course play their own game as they feel. I don't agree that that change makes it more "cerebral" or "thoughtful". Taking away that variable makes is less so in my opinion. It is not a real-time pressure which when lessened would give more time for thought and reflection.


It's not a timer, but if you're trying to play cards slowly and carefully (which is something I typically don't do and thus the dummy seldom actually affects me) then leaving the dummy out WILL increase the game time because you end up playing through more turns. I think that could end up as a more thoughtful game.

Try it both ways and see. For me, as I said I tend to play aggressively so I might as well not play the dummy at all since it will rarely have an effect. I do it because it's in the rules.
 
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carbon_dragon wrote:
Slamin wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:
aliallison wrote:
Zeuscat wrote:
I think skipping the dummy leaves out a very important part of the game. The dummy forces you to keep up a certain pace. If you leave out the dummy you get a false sense of the pace you can use in a real game.
For the very first game, I advocate leaving out dummy, as there is enough to learn and remember, so long as you realize you can't just sit in a spot and use only one card the whole round.

From game #2 and beyond, the dummy should be used, as the initial learning is complete.


Though it's your game. If you don't want the dummy hurrying you along, leave it out. It will be a more cerebral, thoughtful game.


I am in agreement that a player may of course play their own game as they feel. I don't agree that that change makes it more "cerebral" or "thoughtful". Taking away that variable makes is less so in my opinion. It is not a real-time pressure which when lessened would give more time for thought and reflection.


It's not a timer, but if you're trying to play cards slowly and carefully (which is something I typically don't do and thus the dummy seldom actually affects me) then leaving the dummy out WILL increase the game time because you end up playing through more turns. I think that could end up as a more thoughtful game.

Try it both ways and see. For me, as I said I tend to play aggressively so I might as well not play the dummy at all since it will rarely have an effect. I do it because it's in the rules.


I play extremely thoughtful games and this is because of the dummy. If I had an arbitrary number of turns, things would be much easier.

If you like the dummy or not, if you know the game a bit and try to play efficient, you will not take long to encounter very unbalanced situations. This starts with being able to power much more cards with mana or being able to turn any card into a crystal at a mine. It leads to being able to learn all advanced actions at a city, etc. pp.

You do not have to exploit the game like that, but I for my part play against the game with all that the rules allow me to do. And without the dummy, the game is just broken.

That being said, when you learn the game, the dummy is irrelevant, which is the context of this thread.
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cityofsolitude wrote:
That being said, when you learn the game, the dummy is irrelevant, which is the context of this thread.

And that's what I was saying. For the FIRST game, I would play without the dummy just to get a first pass at the rules. In fact, when I teach, I leave out the tactics for the very first ROUND.

Once you get a game under your belt, even a learning game, then you should use the dummy for all solo and cooperative games that require a dummy.
 
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