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Subject: Backed this? Yes? Why? rss

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Ashley Watson
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I just backed the deluxe version with prepainted add on. Why? Because I love the 4X concept with real interesting game ending mechanism: building three towers. While my favorite game, Scythe, do go offensive but not as much, this game have potential to go full offensive. The miniatures and art truly awesome. Lastly but not least, Gamelyn Games have a great track record in creating and designing games like Tiny Epic versions. Oddly, this company is a respected one because of those tiny games but in this project, maybe we shall nickname this as MASSIVE EPIC GAME! I know it is pricey. So what about you? And why you back it or not?
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Your Mama
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Re: Backed this? Yes? Why?
Everything you said, yes. I like the 4x concept, I loved 4x computer games. I love fantasy. I love the multiple ways to get points and trigger the end game. I love everything about this game. But the kicker, Scott (I am pretty sure it was Scott who said this) made a game that he has always wanted to play. This is a labor of love. I am sure he wants to play all his games and he designs games he wants to play. But it seems that this is a game that he can pour his passion into, and this time he didn't have to limit it to make it fit into a tiny box. I can't wait to get this game.
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Kenny Johnson
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I played the prototype in February and REALLY liked it. It's a very well designed game. In fact, I liked what I played much better than Scythe for example.
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Ashley Watson
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More than Scythe?? Wow, that is a serious statement and hope that you are right!
 
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Matthew Gabbert
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Nope. I've backed five Gamelyn projects and I wish them well on this one (glad to see the reboot's gone well), but HoLAS just didn't grab me. It's on the high end of what I like to spend, I'm not crazy about the art style (I have no WoW nostalgia), and it's not the sort of game I'd get my family to play often enough to warrant buying it. But if one of my friends backed it, I'd play it at least once.
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Ashley Watson
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mgabbert wrote:
Nope. I've backed five Gamelyn projects and I wish them well on this one (glad to see the reboot's gone well), but HoLAS just didn't grab me. It's on the high end of what I like to spend, I'm not crazy about the art style (I have no WoW nostalgia), and it's not the sort of game I'd get my family to play often enough to warrant buying it. But if one of my friends backed it, I'd play it at least once.



Glad you commented here. Every game was, is, and will not be liked by every gamer. Believe it or not, I am like meh at Zombicide and Arkham Horror. Not into zombies and Cthulu mythos.
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J
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I'm still on the fence about the prepaint...will consider once the actual painting is posted.
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David Molina
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I backed this game at Deluxe level. This game looks outstanding. I have Star Craft but it takes 3 people and a considerable amount of time to play. This plays in 30 minutes per player? Yes please! Scott Almes/Gamelyn Games have been great that I've played so far.

Plus getting reports like:
kennyj wrote:
I played the prototype in February and REALLY liked it. It's a very well designed game. In fact, I liked what I played much better than Scythe for example.

really help out. So far every post that I've read from someone who has actually played the game has been along these lines. I have yet to read any posts from people who played this that are less than impressed with it. There maybe some out there but I haven't seen any, thats a great sign to me.

I think the upgrades they have done due to play testing have done nothing but improve the game too. I understand the old map LOOKED better but by all accounts this PLAYS better. The new map is even growing on me more and more as I see it. Who knows maybe they will do a map pack and keep the “old world” style but make it more balanced. Another map wouldn't be a horrible thing but for the core game if they can make it more balanced I think that is number one.

There are plenty of negative posts around these boards from the same people who's main complaint is that the last campaign was cancelled after being funded and thus proving Gamelyn Games is greedy by coming back and offering more product for less money. There are people who are certain that they will be able to purchase this later from online stores and save money and I just don't see that happening. Its being offered at 20% savings and I have a hard time seeing the cuts being much deeper than that anywhere. Plus with the mercenaries added (at no additional cost) that will boost the play value up more and would be a shame to leave it behind for a retail purchase.

This being a 1-6 game is a huge plus for me. I'm at a stage where I can't always, actually rarely can I, get 3-6 people together and would be impossible to get them together for 8-12 hours like some of these games are. Will be nice to blast through 2, possibly 3, games in a night and get to try out different factions in short order.

Like I said its awesome to see more and more posts from people like KennyJ who actually have played it and not getting on just to bash them because of a cancelled KS project that they've admitted they didn't run right from the start. But to some this is an unforgivable sin. Its nice they are not closed minded and do listen to their backers as evidenced just today by them adding in the Nomads Mercenary group. Again, more KS value that will not be there at the retail level. I think the people that are waiting to get it at retail will be sorry they didn't KS this when they had the chance.
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Daniel Drickman
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Because ive been wanting this game since i got in the hobby several years ago. Cant wait to get it!!
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Matthias M
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I backed the game, but I am considering cancelling it. In my personal opinion, there is still too much "Tiny Epic Something"-DNA in the game. For instance, I want resource tokens for this price point. Tracking three resources on the same small resource track is acceptable for $20 games, but not for premium products with three digit prices. Nice resource tokens is more important for actual gameplay than huge numbers of miniatures.

For me, it looks like Gamelyn said: "Let's spend a big budget!" They did not ask whether there is a gameplay justification, they just wanted to do a miniatures game and did not really think about setting the right priorities. See e.g. Scythe: it used miniatures for mechs and wooden meeples for the workers. HoLAaS has 3 hero miniatures, 5 warrior miniatures and 12 peon/serf miniatures for each faction. Why miniatures for warriors and serfs? Wooden meeples would have been totally sufficient! Additionally, it would have allowed them to offer painting of all (remaining) miniatures instead of offering an add-on which increases the unappealing mixture of cardboard and unpainted minis with a third group of painted minis. While I understand the importance of hero miniatures for the game, there is no real purpose of having masses of expensive serf minis. Some of them are used permanently for the sole purpose to indicate that a certain building has been built!

The fiddlyness of both resource collection and combat is another thing. You always have to remember things like "regions adjacent to nomads produce one ressource less", "regions of type X produces one additional resource if unit Y is in it and building Z has been upgrades" or various subsets of "if building A is upgraded to level B, then unit C gets a combat modifier of D points when fighting units of type E in terrain F". There are 24 individually different special powers per player! 5 buildings and 3 heroes, everything times 3 levels. Plus mercenaries. This is inherently error-prone, especially if things like resource collection are done simultaneously.

It is hard to describe in a foreign language... For me, I absolutely believe that it is a very solid design, but for this price I expect a little more "elegance". Things which work well in $20 "Tiny Epic Something" games are not good enough anymore. That's why I consider cancelling my pledge. I really hope to see another playthrough video soon. The 2 player playthrough was a bit disappointing.
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Shelby Babb
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MetalPirate wrote:
Nice resource tokens is more important for actual gameplay than huge numbers of miniatures.


"But minis! MINIS!!1!"

Not that I disagree with you, but there's a large crowd of people who think this way, and this KS/game seems pretty clearly marketed towards them.

MetalPirate wrote:
For me, it looks like Gamelyn said: "Let's spend a big budget!" They did not ask whether there is a gameplay justification, they just wanted to do a miniatures game and did not really think about setting the right priorities.


The one objective complaint I might have regarding the miniatures is that they could/should resculpt the bases for the warriors and serfs (and/or heroes) to make them more distinct on the board. Something slightly easier to make out at a glance. Like a round base for serfs, a three-sided base for warriors, and a four- or five-sided base for heroes.

It doesn't seem like an issue to redesign the bases along these lines, but I'm also willing to admit it may be less help than I imagine it would be.

MetalPirate wrote:
It is hard to describe in a foreign language... For me, I absolutely believe that it is a very solid design, but for this price I expect a little more "elegance".


I'd say the issue of elegance is at least partly one of style, and style is subjective. I don't like the style, but some people do.

Once you get past that though, you're still looking at a core game with 80 minis for $79. Plus tokens, cards, more tokens, more cards, player boards, map pieces, little cardboard buildings, little cardboard boats, little cardboard skyships (and stands!), and more tokens and cards. And -then- there's the added unlocked stretch goals.

I'm not sure what would make it more elegant beyond little wooden resource tokens in lieu of cardboard ones, but I won't fault it for packing a box full of stuff at a reasonable price.
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Your Mama
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MetalPirate wrote:
I backed the game, but I am considering cancelling it. In my personal opinion, there is still too much "Tiny Epic Something"-DNA in the game. For instance, I want resource tokens for this price point. Tracking three resources on the same small resource track is acceptable for $20 games, but not for premium products with three digit prices. Nice resource tokens is more important for actual gameplay than huge numbers of miniatures.

For me, it looks like Gamelyn said: "Let's spend a big budget!" They did not ask whether there is a gameplay justification, they just wanted to do a miniatures game and did not really think about setting the right priorities. See e.g. Scythe: it used miniatures for mechs and wooden meeples for the workers. HoLAaS has 3 hero miniatures, 5 warrior miniatures and 12 peon/serf miniatures for each faction. Why miniatures for warriors and serfs? Wooden meeples would have been totally sufficient! Additionally, it would have allowed them to offer painting of all (remaining) miniatures instead of offering an add-on which increases the unappealing mixture of cardboard and unpainted minis with a third group of painted minis. While I understand the importance of hero miniatures for the game, there is no real purpose of having masses of expensive serf minis. Some of them are used permanently for the sole purpose to indicate that a certain building has been built!

The fiddlyness of both resource collection and combat is another thing. You always have to remember things like "regions adjacent to nomads produce one ressource less", "regions of type X produces one additional resource if unit Y is in it and building Z has been upgrades" or various subsets of "if building A is upgraded to level B, then unit C gets a combat modifier of D points when fighting units of type E in terrain F". There are 24 individually different special powers per player! 5 buildings and 3 heroes, everything times 3 levels. Plus mercenaries. This is inherently error-prone, especially if things like resource collection are done simultaneously.

It is hard to describe in a foreign language... For me, I absolutely believe that it is a very solid design, but for this price I expect a little more "elegance". Things which work well in $20 "Tiny Epic Something" games are not good enough anymore. That's why I consider cancelling my pledge. I really hope to see another playthrough video soon. The 2 player playthrough was a bit disappointing.


I hear what you are saying for a deluxe game. I just want to make a short argument for the resource tokens. I would love a pile of tokens too, but I understand the purpose of the track.

1) it is easier to cap the number of resources that a player can accumulate, this seems to be a important part of the game and managing your resources,
2) There are over 2000 backers, so lets use the number 2000. With the track GG needs to produce 36,000 tokens. If they did the pile and made enough so all player (6 at max) could have 10 of each resource (the max) then they would need to produce 720,000 tokens. I am pretty sure the would raise the price on the production, quality control, and shipping, and it would eat into the space in the box.

I hear what you are saying about fiddlyness, but... Please don't take offence to this, but have you played the game? I hear a lot of negatives about game play (especially combat), but it has been from people that have not played the game. From the people that have actually played the game, I have heard nothing but positives about the game play and combat. And to be perfectly honest, I am swayed more by the arguments of people that have actually played the game.

I know this game is not going to be everyone's cup of tea, but if you initially backed it, then is sounds like you like the idea of the game. Check with the people that actually played the game and ask them questions about your concerns, hopefully someone could address them here on this thread.

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Jacob Black
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It wouldn't be too terribly difficult to add your own resource tokens to the game, but I get what you're saying on the premium game. But, other games of this level use a resource track as well (Eclipse immediately comes to mind).

Personally I prefer a track because resource pools take up table space, increase setup and teardown time, and are unnecessarily fiddly in game. With a six player game I could see table space being a rare commodity.
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Matt Smith
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I'm still on the fence, but only because it's a game I'll never get to the table at home except for solo play. It would strictly be a monthly gathering/convention game.

As for the resource track, I actually really like what they did there. Being able to easily adjust the 3 markers up/down the track without having to reach across the table to take/return resource tokens is very elegant, IMO. Simplifying the "accounting" portion of the game is a good thing.

I like Shelby's suggestion of different shaped bases for peons and warriors to more clearly identify them on the map board.
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David Molina
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SDDonkey wrote:
I hear a lot of negatives about game play (especially combat), but it has been from people that have not played the game. From the people that have actually played the game, I have heard nothing but positives about the game play and combat. And to be perfectly honest, I am swayed more by the arguments of people that have actually played the game.


Exactly! For me the "Facts" of people playing outweigh the "Fear" of those who haven't.
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Duo Maxwell
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I'm currently backing but I wished that the campaign was wildly successful with tons of unlocked content. But even with the campaign as it stands - it seems to be there is a lot of game to be had with the pledge even though it is kind of pricey.
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Michael Coe
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San Dee Jota wrote:


I'm not sure what would make it more elegant beyond little wooden resource tokens in lieu of cardboard ones, but I won't fault it for packing a box full of stuff at a reasonable price.


Our resource tokens will be elegantly screen printed wood.
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Matthew Gabbert
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mgcoe wrote:
San Dee Jota wrote:


I'm not sure what would make it more elegant beyond little wooden resource tokens in lieu of cardboard ones, but I won't fault it for packing a box full of stuff at a reasonable price.


Our resource tokens will be elegantly screen printed wood.


Also, players should be urged to keep their pinkies up when adjusting resource tracks, moving miniatures, or revealing exploration tokens.
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Your Mama
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mgabbert wrote:
mgcoe wrote:
San Dee Jota wrote:


I'm not sure what would make it more elegant beyond little wooden resource tokens in lieu of cardboard ones, but I won't fault it for packing a box full of stuff at a reasonable price.


Our resource tokens will be elegantly screen printed wood.


Also, players should be urged to keep their pinkies up when adjusting resource tracks, moving miniatures, or revealing exploration tokens.


I am house ruling the only tea may be consumed while playing, and all players but be dignified and respectful during combat. We are elegant humans after all, not some savage Orc. Well, most of us anyway
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David Molina
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House rule? I think we should storm Gamelyn Games and DEMAND this be included in the rules or we will boycott them!! oh, and meeples and old map and double the armies too for a quarter of the price...or maybe the price should be a quarter?!?
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Kenny Johnson
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SDDonkey wrote:
mgabbert wrote:
mgcoe wrote:
San Dee Jota wrote:


I'm not sure what would make it more elegant beyond little wooden resource tokens in lieu of cardboard ones, but I won't fault it for packing a box full of stuff at a reasonable price.


Our resource tokens will be elegantly screen printed wood.


Also, players should be urged to keep their pinkies up when adjusting resource tracks, moving miniatures, or revealing exploration tokens.


I am house ruling the only tea may be consumed while playing, and all players but be dignified and respectful during combat. We are elegant humans after all, not some savage Orc. Well, most of us anyway


Does Chai tea count?
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Your Mama
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kennyj wrote:
SDDonkey wrote:
mgabbert wrote:
mgcoe wrote:
San Dee Jota wrote:


I'm not sure what would make it more elegant beyond little wooden resource tokens in lieu of cardboard ones, but I won't fault it for packing a box full of stuff at a reasonable price.


Our resource tokens will be elegantly screen printed wood.


Also, players should be urged to keep their pinkies up when adjusting resource tracks, moving miniatures, or revealing exploration tokens.


I am house ruling the only tea may be consumed while playing, and all players but be dignified and respectful during combat. We are elegant humans after all, not some savage Orc. Well, most of us anyway


Does Chai tea count?


As long as it's in a tea cup I will either have green tea or "Tea, Eral Grey, hot".
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Ernesto Pavan
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This is a game that I'd love to like, since I like 4x games and I backed the last 2 Gamelyn Games kickstarters (Tiny Epic Galaxies deluxe and Tiny Epic Quests). However, I have several doubts:

1) The Exploration tokens (as I've explained in [geekurl=https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1780173/exploration-tokens-too-random]another thread[/geekurl]) feel very random and potentially unbalancing to me.
2) I'm concerned about replayability. The map and the factions have no elements of randomization (which isn't the same as randomness) to them; AFAIK, the only stuff that changes from game to game are the Exploration tokens (which IMO are not very balanced) and the spell cards. Is that truly enough to call this game "very replayable"?
3) The whole thing looks a touch fiddly. Not as much as Terraforming "never play outside on a windy day" Mars, but a little.

Overall, this COULD be my kind of game, but... I dunno. It's a lot of money and I'm not sure.
 
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Ashley Watson
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Just learned that only heroes and mercenaries will be prepainted which it means just 12 plus more unlocked in the stretch goals, I decided to remove the add on. I will paint those later on.
 
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Duo Maxwell
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I have been doing some thinking and I am definitely keeping my deluxe pledge. I know GG really tries hard to balance games and with the amount of factions and asymmetric factions in this game, I have no doubt each race/clan will seem distinct. Plus, Twilight Imperium is a hard sell. For TW, I have to tell my friends.....Okay, get permission for your wife to be gone for 8-10 hours. It's a commitment where as you can slip away for a few hours to play HoLAS.

My only Cons of the campaign would be that I wish the shipping wasn't so high and I wish they offered even more races/clans/factions for purchase.
Mermaids anyone??
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