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Subject: Box 4 Question rss

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Jesse the Fourth
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Fitchburg
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At least, I think it's box 4. It might be box 3. I get them confused because they happened in the same game.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
When you succeed at exploring a tomb, do you get a glory for a Successful Explore Endeavor and for whatever you find? Or only the latter?
 
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Simon C
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It's Box 3, and yes.
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Chris Willott
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As cryptic as the answers on these boards. I think the official answer is "you do".

To summarize:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
1. You take an explore action at the tomb site. No roll required yet.
2. You choose and read a relevant entry from the Booke.
3. If it asks you to do an endeavor, you roll dice for that endeavour type, adding any modifiers for that endeavour type.
4. If successful (i.e. at least one success and you don't sink), you gain a Glory.
5. You continue to follow the directions and gain additional Glory if the Booke awards it.
 
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Kevin McPartland
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But there is an "official" interpretation out here somewhere that you only get additional glory if the Booke entry says additional. Otherwise, the Booke glory is inclusive of the 1 glory for a successful endeavor.

Kevin
 
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Chris Willott
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Yes, that "official" interpretation was written as a reply along the lines of "oops, we screwed up, and those awards were supposed to include the additional glory. And I think it only applied to the really big ones
Spoiler (click to reveal)
the 4 glory for tablets and relics (should be 4, not 4+1)
and not to the smaller ones
Spoiler (click to reveal)
the 1 glory some other discoveries might give (should be 1+1 not 1


So you can discuss this oddity with your group, and choose whichever you want to honour -- but it may just be easier to say "get the extra glory"
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Kevin McPartland
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Jessup
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Willottica wrote:
-- but it may just be easier to say "get the extra glory"

We've been playing it "get the glory it says, 1 if it says nothing". I thought that was what the "official" interpretation was.

Kevin
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Chris Willott
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
So does "sorry, I made a mistake"

translate to "I made a mistake on all Tomb Entries that award large glory", or "I made a mistake on all Tomb Entries, and Statues, and Temples, etc."

What about if the entry awards 1 glory? Is that 1+1? (Otherwise, why say 1 at all?)

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Kevin McPartland
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
Quote:
What about if the entry awards 1 glory? Is that 1+1? (Otherwise, why say 1 at all?)


Spoiler (click to reveal)
No, we've been playing that you get 1 glory if the Booke says get 1 glory, and you get 1 glory if the Booke says nothing. No, it doesn't make sense. Neither interpretation makes any sense. (Why the arbitrary cut-off at 1 glory? So 1+1=2 but 1+4=4?) It just depends on which nonsense interpretation you want to go with. We went with the one that provides the least glory for the over-valued Tomb raids.


Kevin
 
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Chris Willott
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
In the first campaign, I can't recall what we did -- but I don't think we got inset glory for special islands. I'm not sure if I'd read the thing about the tombs yet.

In the second campaign, having halved all rewards (rounded up), we granted the explore as a full 1 point (in all cases) then added additional if the book specified (halved rounded up).

In the third campaign, I went with the broken glory, 1+ everything.

To be honest, not a huge difference between the three - though I did enjoy the extra turn or 2 that the halved glory afforded in the second campaign.
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Kevin McPartland
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If we were to do another campaign, we would do this:

Willottica wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
... having halved all rewards (rounded up)...

because of this:

Willottica wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
...I did enjoy the extra turn or 2 that the halved glory afforded in the second campaign.

But I highly doubt we'd do another campaign- the game as published is just too frustrating!

Kevin
 
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Chris Willott
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Exactly! Even (perhaps especially) with all experienced players, the rules ambiguities that come up are pervasive and extremely consequential!

For instance (box 3 spoiler)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Tablets - when can you use them, exactly? I received a reply from Rob suggesting you could even use one AFTER THE GAME OFFICIALLY ENDS!


Or (box 5+ spoiler)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
How do you actually use the advisors to find the island at the end of the world? Do you have to have seen the charts yourself, or just know they are there? Is there even an official answer to this anywhere?


It's a brilliant game, and if you're all new with no preconceptions you can work out ambiguities together -- but they'll be everywhere. And if you all played the game together, you will have come to the same decisions on those ambiguities and you should also be okay. But if you have a mixed group - some have played before, some haven't, the spoilers give an unfair advantage, and if the experienced players are experienced from different campaigns, they most likely have completely different interpretations of some of the rules, which you can't even discuss ahead of time because of the spoiler factor!

An official FAQ / Revised Rules Compendium cannot come fast enough.
 
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Charles Waterman
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LeonardQuirm wrote:
It's Box 3, and yes.


Well said, Leonard. That's the way the rules look to me, too. "Yes." *grin*
 
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Charles Waterman
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[q="Willottica"]Exactly! Even (perhaps especially) with all experienced players, the rules ambiguities that come up are pervasive and extremely consequential!

For instance (box 3 spoiler)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Tablets - when can you use them, exactly? I received a reply from Rob suggesting you could even use one AFTER THE GAME OFFICIALLY ENDS!


Yes? I'm kind of expecting there to be an event card in the last box that says "Put the lime in the coconut and call me in the morning."
 
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Chris Willott
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Sorry, more confusion: Not after the campaign. The game.

He answered that:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
You could roll for enmity with your fortune tokens, use the tablet, and then roll 2 more DURING THE ENDGAME steps.

First of all, the game is over.
Secondly, the actual enmity rolling doesn't actually ever tell them to spend them or use them up, just to count them, so there's no point when you would reduce to zero and be able to use it.

So I just ignored that answer, as I have several others that just seemed... wrong.
 
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Kevin McPartland
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Willottica wrote:
It's a brilliant game...

I disagree- good, but not brilliant. We are constantly coming up with ways that the game could have been better. For example, we came up with a simple improvement to make the game more interesting and more fun. Instead of having some stickers that give an extra Glory when a building or a ship improvement is built in a certain place (lame!), have stickers that allow you to save a building or improvement to the next game! This would open up all sorts of possibilities: what items do you build in these locations? Expensive ones, or just get something down quickly? As new buildings are introduced to the campaign, do you allow a building to be torn down, so you can build a better one in its place?

A very simple rules change would have made a far more compelling game.

Kevin
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