Recommend
18 
 Thumb up
 Hide
52 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

Yedo» Forums » General

Subject: Print and play expansion: development and feedback rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Art Entre
msg tools
Summary and Rules
This PnP expansion is uploaded to BGG (two parts/uploads for each of two different formats: pdfs for easier home printing, and zip of individual files for PnP services) for open playtesting. See printing notes below for details.

Please post play test feedback, describing which components you used and if you tried any variations of the suggested rules.

For new new mechanisms and rules...

Green Missions

The recommended way to use the new Green Missions, assuming you have them as additional cards, is to combine them with existing Green Missions then create a Green Mission Deck with as many cards as 4 times the number of players(2 players -> 8 Green Missions total; 3 players -> 12 Green Missions total, and so on).

If players do not have separate cards for the new Green Missions, they can choose to replace existing Missions with new ones by covering up an existing card with a printout in a card sleeve.

Red Missions

The new Red Missions can be added to the existing Red Missions. If players do not have separate cards for the new Red Missions, they can choose to replace existing Missions with new ones by covering up an existing card with a printout in a card sleeve.

Some of the new Red Missions allow you to attack other players directly, causing them to lose Prestige, a Weapon, a Geisha, or an Annex. In the case of the Weapon, you gain the Weapon; for the others, they simply return to the supply. These missions have the "Samurai" label, indicating players who prefer the friendlier "Geisha" version should exclude them.

When completing these missions you must have a Disciple on the Clan House of the targeted opponent, therefore, you are now allowed to place Disciples on opponent's Clan Houses during assigning (Phase 4). When completing the mission, it must be the Disciple on the main game board District that is activated; the Disciple on your opponent's Clan House will return to your Clan House at the same time.

In the case that the targeted opponent's Disciple is on an Annex when the Annex is returned to the supply, that Disciple moves off the Annex and remains on their Clan House.

Characters

Characters are a new module to the game you can include as an extra element, providing a temporary bonus for a round, possibly at the cost of Mon or Prestige.

To use characters, after completing bidding but before the event phase in each round, randomly select N+2 Character Cards (N=number of players) and reveal them. In reverse player order (last player in turn order picks first), each player may pick one of the available Character Cards, paying the cost and applying the effect. At the end of the round, return the Character Cards to the supply.

Notes:

The character card Ronin (temporary extra Disciple) does count as one of your Disciples for all purposes during that round, however, you may never lose the last two Disciples of your color. If a card effect forces you to choose one of your Disciples to return to the Reserve, you must choose the Ronin.

Character cards are returned at the end of a round, and they do not count toward the requirements on Bonus Cards in end game scoring.

If you would like to post feedback specific to the Characters, or test various proposed variations, please see the discussions in this thread.

Other Cards

The PnP expansion also includes new Action, Event, and Bonus Cards that can be included with no additional rules. Note that some of these cards have effects that apply specifically to the Character cards, or the new Samurai version Red Missions.

Printing Notes

The PnP expansion card files will be posted in two formats (and split between two files for each format).

One is a zip of individual files, useful for anyone who wants to use a PnP service to print actual new cards (note that the cards are unlikely to match the published ones exactly). Sizing notes are included in the zip file.

The other format is a pdf of all of the cards in a grid, useful for someone who would print out the cards on normal paper, cut them out, and slide the cutouts into existing game cards with card sleeves. You could do this by replacing existing game cards, or buying a second copy of the game to get extra cards to use.

Updated or alternate cards

Minor updates/fixes or proposed alternatives for testing will be posted here before being updated in the main batch of files.

C9 v1.1 (Character Card: Eminent advisor of the Shogun) - Cosmetic change only: removed extraneous placeholder background image (smiley face).

------


Intro

This thread will be for posting development progress and getting feedback regarding a Print and Play expansion for Yedo comprising of ideas from the game's designers,

Thomas Vande Ginste
Belgium
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wolf Plancke
Belgium
Kortrijk
West Vlaanderen
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb


I will be helping by formatting the new cards provided by Thomas and Wolf with the art/backgrounds from the game. Right now, I'm planning on working through most of it myself over the next couple of months so there is consistent formatting, but even if that stays true that only I'm working on the formatting, I could use help with on some topics and with feedback.

Progress

My plan is to (1) finish the new cards while posting a few examples as I go; (2) when the set is complete, post it all as drafts for a couple of weeks for typo review by Yedo fans; and then (3) upload the finalized and compiled files to bgg.

The content from Thomas and Wolf currently includes:

8 green missions – template complete (example 1 and example 2)
5 red missionstemplate complete (example 1)
9 action cards - template complete (example 1)
5 bonus cards - template complete (example 1)
6 event cards - template complete (example 1)
9 Character cards - template complete minus illustration (a couple examples)

Generating individual files from templates - complete
Final checks and formatting - completed
Upload to BGG - expected Aug 25-30, in progress


Feedback Topics

I'll edit this section to highlight whatever I think is the current main topic for feedback/discussion.

Topic 1: PnP card use and file formats

Topic 1b: Feedback on example of requested file format

Topic 2: Character cards
*Looking for feedback on the idea.
*Also looking for someone else who might want to put together card design/art.


*Any feedback on examples posted thus far...

Typos, misaligned text or icons, etc.
9 
 Thumb up
8.30
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Art Entre
msg tools
To mods: Please allow the double post. I want to leave this here, while the first post will be edited to new topics in the future.

*How will we use the new cards?

By which I mean I think it would be hard to print separate cards where the card size/thickness and the backs are indistinguishable from the published game. Maybe others don't care and are willing for the new missions to be cards to be identifiable from the old.

The way I'd personally be looking to approach it is to print out the card front on normal paper, and then slide that in front of an existing game card in a card sleeve. I'd either do it by having it cover up my least favorite cards, or by buying a second copy of the game for the extra cards to use with my first copy of the game.

For the missions, the file from Thomas and Wolf included the following instructions, which I believe are from the perspective of an officially printed expansion.
Thomas and Wolf wrote:
How to use the new Mission Cards?
• Shuffle them with all the others of the same color. 4 separate decks.
• Green missions : put as many green missions as players X 4 : so 2 = 8 greens ; 3 players = 12 green missions,4 players = 16 greens & 5 players = 20 green missions.


*What's a good file format and resolution to post the final cards?

In particular I'm wondering if anyone has experience with print and play files. I'm working with the cards in Photoshop at 1200dpi, and then the examples are just saved from there as jpg. That's probably more resolution than is useful, but I'm not sure how much I should cut it by. Also, should it be a zip file of individual images, a printable pdf with the multiple cards together, or something else.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dustin
United States
Kentucky
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Please make alternate Kill the Shogun cards. It can never be pulled off once players know the game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Art Entre
msg tools
SeerMagic wrote:
Please make alternate Kill the Shogun cards. It can never be pulled off once players know the game.

It's not an official variant/expansion, but I think I already posted exactly what you're asking for almost two years ago.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lucas Smith
Germany
Munich
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
9 new cards (new module to be explained later)

That sounds interesting, looking forward to hearing more about it. I imagine that module could be combined with the base game more easily (if it's an entirely new category of cards, there's no need for them to look exactly like the original ones!)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas Vande Ginste
Belgium
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Great! Thanks Art!!! Will look great.
If there are remarks, ideas, don t hesitate to tell us. Maybe we should keep this tread specifficzlly for editing etc...
and we use the old tread or pake a new for Ideas. Publishers won t publish expansions, so let s prin and play... thznks for all the support!

Sorry if I m less active than before... changed positions at work. Need to study and adapt
A lot to my new situation .
4 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phil Triest
Australia
Sydney
NSW
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Honestly the only new cards needed are mission cards. This game does not need anything extra
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas Vande Ginste
Belgium
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There are some cards. Ones all the templates are set up, think it will ve easier to make more. I m a nobody in editing and stuff. So we are happy that Art offered his help. Nice to see things moving in the right direction.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ashley Watson
United States
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Wasp wrote:
There are some cards. Ones all the templates are set up, think it will ve easier to make more. I m a nobody in editing and stuff. So we are happy that Art offered his help. Nice to see things moving in the right direction.


Maybe seek a publisher willing to publish a small expansion? Yedo is one of my top games and I love its nastiness which keep me coming back for more.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brent Wilson
United States
Montgomery
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here are my preferences. Thanks so much for putting this effort in. I'm really excited about this project.

For a game I like as much as Yedo, I'd prefer having card art images that are fit for printing at PrinterStudio. They make excellent quality cards affordably in small volumes.

The art will need to be 300dpi with at a safe "bleed" area for cutting. This means that the card templates need extra space around the art so that the cutter could be off in registration by as much as 1/8". PrinterStudio provides guidelines for the required bleed area for each card size -- for poker size cards I think it is 72pixels extra in each direction at 300dpi.

Each card should be its own image file.

To get the cards to match, having a full set of mission cards would be the preferred option. So, the expansion would replace the entire mission deck with the new deck.

If you're replacing the whole deck, the card size could be anything they offer. Tarot cards are probably the closest fit to the original art.


3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Singh
United States
Moreno Valley
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is fantastic news! I will be following closely.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darin Bolyard
United States
Oak Grove
Missouri
flag msg tools
But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
badge
In your world, I have another name. You must learn to know me by it. That was the very reason why you were brought to Narnia, that by knowing me here for a little, you may know me better there.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Speedyox wrote:
Here are my preferences. Thanks so much for putting this effort in. I'm really excited about this project.

For a game I like as much as Yedo, I'd prefer having card art images that are fit for printing at PrinterStudio. They make excellent quality cards affordably in small volumes.

The art will need to be 300dpi with at a safe "bleed" area for cutting. This means that the card templates need extra space around the art so that the cutter could be off in registration by as much as 1/8". PrinterStudio provides guidelines for the required bleed area for each card size -- for poker size cards I think it is 72pixels extra in each direction at 300dpi.

Each card should be its own image file.

To get the cards to match, having a full set of mission cards would be the preferred option. So, the expansion would replace the entire mission deck with the new deck.

If you're replacing the whole deck, the card size could be anything they offer. Tarot cards are probably the closest fit to the original art.

I'm glad you know your stuff, Brent. There are a couple of things I wanted to say and a couple of things I didn't realize, but you seem to have hit it all and more. I too would very much love to be able to print at printerstudio (or some other print site, though printerstudio is my preference, as I can testify to their quality).

The idea of reproducing the entire deck along with the expansion cards is solid for reasons Brent already stated, but I imagine there would be copyright issues with the publisher...unless they give permission to do so. After all, it would be impossible to play the game with just the mission cards. Surely they could spare that much of the game, especially since they're unwilling to produce the expansion themselves.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darin Bolyard
United States
Oak Grove
Missouri
flag msg tools
But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
badge
In your world, I have another name. You must learn to know me by it. That was the very reason why you were brought to Narnia, that by knowing me here for a little, you may know me better there.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
And just to reiterate a point Brent made about the bleed. This is so often neglected in PNP card files. Even if one is merely printing at home, it's reeeally nice to have a little room for error.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darin Bolyard
United States
Oak Grove
Missouri
flag msg tools
But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
badge
In your world, I have another name. You must learn to know me by it. That was the very reason why you were brought to Narnia, that by knowing me here for a little, you may know me better there.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Entreri43 wrote:
SeerMagic wrote:
Please make alternate Kill the Shogun cards. It can never be pulled off once players know the game.

It's not an official variant/expansion, but I think I already posted exactly what you're asking for almost two years ago.

It would be nice to have some alternate KtS cards along with the expansion file. If it is possible to produce a PNP file of all the original mission cards + expansion mission cards, then adding a few alternate KtS cards should be a cinch (says the guy who is all thumbs when it comes to this stuff).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Art Entre
msg tools
For those who gave details on PnP formats, thanks. If you're going to be trying to print out actual cards, I assume that'd mean you'd also need one image of the back of the card in the same format?


I'd guess making PnP versions of the original cards would be a no from the copyright perspective. Making enough new missions to form a complete deck is also questionable too, in my opinion, but has a better chance; Thomas checked with the publisher regarding using the art for a PnP expansion, but replacing the deck might go beyond that. The closest I'd imagine being able to sneak by would be to make a few more (up to 12) green missions, so that one color would be able to have it's own PnP deck; but I'm not sure what'd be ok.

I'll get around to whatever missions Thomas and Wolf come up with or okay for the expansion.

The strategy of printing out actual cards and replacing the entire deck also becomes more involved if you extend that to the other decks (event, action, bonus); though I'd guess people are most interested in the missions, and therefore were perhaps only thinking of doing it for them.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brent Wilson
United States
Montgomery
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Art,

Yes, there would need to be an image of the card back in the same format.

Thanks again.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Art Entre
msg tools
red mission example 1
Edit: A previous version of the example mission incorrectly had 10 Mon instead of 5 Mon for both rewards. It should now be correct.

The red missions are still in progress, but I posted a preliminary draft of one mission to introduce the new mechanism that comes with 4 out of the 5 new red missions. That mechanism is that missions can affect your opponents, requiring you to place a disciple on your opponent's clan house during assigning. The disciple on the opponent's clan house is returned upon completing the mission, but I'm assuming one disciple on the game board must be activated/returned as well to actually do the mission like normal.

The posted example allows you to steal a weapon. The other three similar missions allow you to force an opponent to return an annex, cause them to lose 2 prestige points, or force them to return a geisha to the supply.

Thomas and Wolf's notes say "maybe" for labeling these as Samurai, so I've gone ahead and done that in the posted example. Though as this an expansion, maybe that's not necessary since you can just not add these cards if you want a less cut-throat game.

Right now, this mechanism only appears on these 4 red missions, though it does relate to one of the new action cards:
new action card wrote:
Alarm! (Phase IV)*
Remove a rival Disciple from your Clan House and GIVE HIM BACK TO OPPONENT.
*Note: This "Phase IV" is likely not the same phase 4 in the printed game, awaiting further clarification.

My personal feedback/opinion on that action card is that it's not useful enough at the moment with there being only 4 missions in the game that have that mechanism.

----

Some minor notes to myself on the posted red mission example (R2a v0.3), posted just so that others know they don't need to point them out:
*Edo should likely be changed to Yedo for consistency with other mission text.
*Should double check if missions use British English or American English spelling and change that if necessary.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darin Bolyard
United States
Oak Grove
Missouri
flag msg tools
But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
badge
In your world, I have another name. You must learn to know me by it. That was the very reason why you were brought to Narnia, that by knowing me here for a little, you may know me better there.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think the Samurai label is appropriate considering the nature of those cards. The current label is appreciated. There are some I play with who would have a very different opinion of this game with those cards vs. without them. And looking for the Samurai label is a super efficient way to pull them out.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phil Triest
Australia
Sydney
NSW
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Entreri43 wrote:


I'm liking that card. Very tasty
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fritz Richard K.
Germany
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Entreri43 wrote:
red mission preliminary example 1

The red missions are still in progress, but I posted a preliminary draft of one mission to introduce the new mechanism that comes with 4 out of the 5 new red missions. That mechanism is that missions can affect your opponents, requiring you to place a disciple on your opponent's clan house during assigning. The disciple on the opponent's clan house is returned upon completing the mission, but I'm assuming one disciple on the game board must be activated/returned as well to actually do the mission like normal.

The posted example allows you to steal a weapon. The other three similar missions allow you to force an opponent to return an annex, cause them to lose 2 prestige points, or force them to return a geisha to the supply.

(...)

Right now, this mechanism only appears on these 4 red missions, though it does relate to one of the new action cards:
new action card wrote:
Alarm! (Phase IV)
Remove a rival Disciple from your Clan House and GIVE HIM BACK TO OPPONENT.

My personal feedback/opinion on that action card is that it's not useful enough at the moment with there being only 4 missions in the game that have that mechanism.

(...)



Very cool new mechanism. More fun interaction! ninja

I`m not sure in regard to the usefulness of this action card.
It may depend a bit on the other cards and if you have got all 4 of them in the red deck.

The new one you just posted anyhow looks very tempting to pull off.
The requirements aren`t too high and the rewards are not bad!
If the other 3 ones are similar, they may be likely played out as well.
Personally, I would even think about a second 'Alarm!' card for the action card deck in that case.

Don`t know how much Thomas and Wolf already playtested this thing .

Question:
Would the 'Alarm' card be played during or after phase 4?
What would happen to that returned disciple?
Could the opponent place him somewhere else or not?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Art Entre
msg tools
homo ludens wrote:
Personally, I would even think about a second 'Alarm!' card for the action card deck in that case.

What a coincidence, Thomas and Wolf's notes list the quantity of this card as two.

homo ludens wrote:
Question:
Would the 'Alarm' card be played during or after phase 4?
What would happen to that returned disciple?
Could the opponent place him somewhere else or not?

For the card to be moderately useful, I have to imagine that the opponent who tried to place that disciple on your Clan House wouldn't get to replay him anywhere else. This question also caused me to look closer at the action cards, and I'm noticing that the phase numbers may not be the same as the printed game. It looks like "Phase V" in the notes is actually the action phase (Phase VII) in the printed game. I'd guess the notes are generated with a prototype version of the game that had slightly different numbering/grouping for the phases.

Therefore, I'm guessing the action card should probably say Phase V or Phase VI. I'd go with phase VI, trading, just so people don't get confused with the "one action card per player" rule for each of the watch patrol movement and capture steps.

---

Regarding general usefulness of the action card, if it's played as I thought, then what's likely to happen is that it causes your opponent to waste the two disciples that can't complete the mission this round, but then you'll just be targeted again next round.

One way to make it more tempting from my perspective is if you could return the disciple or place him a different opponent's building. That way, the person who has the red mission may choose to target the new person instead of wasting two Disciples, and the person who played the action card would actually get to escape being targeted by the red mission.

Also, the usefulness probably depends on how commonly red missions are completed. In a typical four player game that I'd play, I'd say something like 6-8 red missions get completed (I at least tend to jump from green/yellow to black when possible). A few more may get seen via the bidding, so maybe 9-12 would be better, but let's pretend 4 Samurai out 18 red missions means, as a rough average, my game will see 2 of the new Samurai red missions.

I was going off intuition before, but crunching some numbers 4 players and 2 Samurai missions coming into the game should mean there's a 44% chance to get hit by at least one of them. If your group likes red missions more, and you assume 4 come into the game, then there's a 68% chance to be hit by one of them. That means there's something like a 30-60% chance the action card can't be used at all by you in a given game. I just generally like cards I can choose to use rather than waiting to maybe use them, but maybe it's comparable to some other highly situation action cards.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fritz Richard K.
Germany
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Entreri43 wrote:

Regarding general usefulness of the action card, if it's played as I thought, then what's likely to happen is that it causes your opponent to waste the two disciples that can't complete the mission this round, but then you'll just be targeted again next round.

One way to make it more tempting from my perspective is if you could return the disciple or place him a different opponent's building. That way, the person who has the red mission may choose to target the new person instead of wasting two Disciples, and the person who played the action card would actually get to escape being targeted by the red mission.


Sounds quite good to me! Except that the 'passing' of the disciple unfortunately wouldn't work in a 2 player game.


Alternative, thematic idea: The disciple get`s caught and trapped.

Either
1) he has to stay in the particular clan house for the ongoing and the subsequent round
or
2) he has to be ransomed for, let`s say, 3-5 Mon or so. ninja

[Edit:] This would enhance the incentive to buy and keep the 'Alarm' card.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dustin
United States
Kentucky
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I must say that Mission is insanely to good. Too easy with way too high of a payout.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fritz Richard K.
Germany
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
SeerMagic wrote:
I must say that Mission is insanely to good. Too easy with way too high of a payout.


Yeah, should probably be less Mon, at least in the bonus.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Art Entre
msg tools
homo ludens wrote:
SeerMagic wrote:
I must say that Mission is insanely to good. Too easy with way too high of a payout.


Yeah, should probably be less Mon, at least in the bonus.


Ooops, I just realized the payout should be 5 Mon in both the standard and bonus rewards; the notes on the missions use color coding for Mon amounts, and I must have been tired when I made that since I thought the 5 Mon color was 10 Mon.

So it's not as ridiculously good if I fix that mistake. I'll add a note to my posts and get around to fixing the actual card soon.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.