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Subject: How on earth do you win with Haas-Bioroid? rss

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Adam Bignell
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Hi Everyone,

I played New Angeles for the first time last night. I was playing with Haas-Bioroid and I failed miserably! I just felt that I was only really useful when you needed to move the Androids which wasn't very much. It could have been the shuffle of my cards, however I only really had 2 to choose from for half of the game.

Now in a group of intelligent people its incredibly hard to negotiate a card that really doesn't need to be used.

Also it seemed very luck based when it came to the achievement cards that were allocated. I could end up with achieving a max of 3 capital and someone else could get a card offering up to 7 capital.

So is playing with Hass-Bioroid hard to win?

I know that people complain about NBN but I don't see anyone having issues with Haas-Biodroid?
 
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Did you meet any of the 3 demands? Seems rather impossible without moving androids every round.

But, in general, the corp special abilities are just small "prods" in certain direction. The capital in this game comes from lucky investment card and - of course - the mythical "negotiating", that apparently this game offers and uses well.
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rattkin wrote:
Did you meet any of the 3 demands? Seems rather impossible without moving androids every round.

But, in general, the corp special abilities are just small "prods" in certain direction. The capital in this game comes from lucky investment card and - of course - the mythical "negotiating", that apparently this game offers and uses well.


Yeah we met the demands. I only need to use the "move the Androids" twice in the game. (I think)

I think the cards for negotiating needs to be somehow improved to make them all equally beneficial to every turn. Then we can have true negotiations!
 
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Adam Bignell wrote:
I just felt that I was only really useful when you needed to move the Androids which wasn't very much. It could have been the shuffle of my cards, however I only really had 2 to choose from for half of the game.


It would indeed be luck if in your game you didn't need to move the Bioroids. Usually you need to move at least two if not all three each round.

If you find that the bioroids don't need to be moved very much you could always go with the strategies that are here available to every corp when they're losing; tell people you will tank an important vote unless they give you capital when you're in the position to do so.

If you can swing it, you can wait until someone puts up a card on their turn that no one wants to do, then you can put up a card that will move the bioroids, with the idea that you will move them back next turn. It won't work often (as there aren't really that many detrimental card suggestions) but if, say you're sitting to the right of the Federalist, might be able to get a lot of capital out of the situation.

But ultimately, yeah you got unlucky. Statistically the bioroids should be moving around a lot.
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Adam Bignell wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I played New Angeles for the first time last night. I was playing with Haas-Bioroid and I failed miserably! I just felt that I was only really useful when you needed to move the Androids which wasn't very much. It could have been the shuffle of my cards, however I only really had 2 to choose from for half of the game.

Now in a group of intelligent people its incredibly hard to negotiate a card that really doesn't need to be used.

Also it seemed very luck based when it came to the achievement cards that were allocated. I could end up with achieving a max of 3 capital and someone else could get a card offering up to 7 capital.

So is playing with Hass-Bioroid hard to win?

I know that people complain about NBN but I don't see anyone having issues with Haas-Biodroid?




First NBN is hard to win -- now HB is hard to win... I am starting to see a trend.

HB wants the Androids to move frequently. The 'move a single Android' and 'move up to 3 Androids' both help you the same amount in terms of Private Contract Capital.

So... first offer up a single move, get one Android into place.
Then offer another move (single or multi) to finish the job.

Now you got paid twice.

If someone else offers to move the Androids - GREAT! You get paid even if you don't win the Deal round.

Androids cause Unrest or Outage when Human First is swinging their sledge hammers all around. Keep Weyland focused on handling outages and NOT building Arks - because Arks imply a permanently installed Android -- and we just determined that you'd rather move them 2-3 times per round.

Too often the board will want to keep three spots clear and produce half now and half later. That's inefficient! Much better to produce all of one resource you need RIGHT NOW and then move Androids for the second half of the Demand to finish off the need. That gives you more opportunities to do what you need to do.

Remember that Liquidation is another tool in the arsenal of meeting demand. Liquidate an area NOW and then offer to pre-position the Androids this round in anticipation of the next Demand phase.

When all of the Androids are in place - Focus on your High Risk Investments. Surely you can find two other Corporations interested in a little bit of extra graft right now given Demand is already being met because of your efficient placement of mechanized Labor.

Capital in this game does NOT only come from "lucky investment cards", it comes from:
- Capital Transfer from other Corps - usually done through Negotiation.
- Investment Cards - Luck being another term for "I don't know how to manipulate the board"
- Private Contracts - which we've discussed above
- High Risk Investments - which is a Labor card
- Assets - which come from winning Deals, which the Board needs you to do periodically if trying to meet demand.

You can't have a stake in every Deal. Pick your battles.
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Adam Bignell
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byronczimmer wrote:
Adam Bignell wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I played New Angeles for the first time last night. I was playing with Haas-Bioroid and I failed miserably! I just felt that I was only really useful when you needed to move the Androids which wasn't very much. It could have been the shuffle of my cards, however I only really had 2 to choose from for half of the game.

Now in a group of intelligent people its incredibly hard to negotiate a card that really doesn't need to be used.

Also it seemed very luck based when it came to the achievement cards that were allocated. I could end up with achieving a max of 3 capital and someone else could get a card offering up to 7 capital.

So is playing with Hass-Bioroid hard to win?

I know that people complain about NBN but I don't see anyone having issues with Haas-Biodroid?




First NBN is hard to win -- now HB is hard to win... I am starting to see a trend.

HB wants the Androids to move frequently. The 'move a single Android' and 'move up to 3 Androids' both help you the same amount in terms of Private Contract Capital.

So... first offer up a single move, get one Android into place.
Then offer another move (single or multi) to finish the job.

Now you got paid twice.

If someone else offers to move the Androids - GREAT! You get paid even if you don't win the Deal round.

Androids cause Unrest or Outage when Human First is swinging their sledge hammers all around. Keep Weyland focused on handling outages and NOT building Arks - because Arks imply a permanently installed Android -- and we just determined that you'd rather move them 2-3 times per round.

Too often the board will want to keep three spots clear and produce half now and half later. That's inefficient! Much better to produce all of one resource you need RIGHT NOW and then move Androids for the second half of the Demand to finish off the need. That gives you more opportunities to do what you need to do.

Remember that Liquidation is another tool in the arsenal of meeting demand. Liquidate an area NOW and then offer to pre-position the Androids this round in anticipation of the next Demand phase.

When all of the Androids are in place - Focus on your High Risk Investments. Surely you can find two other Corporations interested in a little bit of extra graft right now given Demand is already being met because of your efficient placement of mechanized Labor.

Capital in this game does NOT only come from "lucky investment cards", it comes from:
- Capital Transfer from other Corps - usually done through Negotiation.
- Investment Cards - Luck being another term for "I don't know how to manipulate the board"
- Private Contracts - which we've discussed above
- High Risk Investments - which is a Labor card
- Assets - which come from winning Deals, which the Board needs you to do periodically if trying to meet demand.

You can't have a stake in every Deal. Pick your battles.



Thank you for this. This was helpful - I think I need to have a few games of this before I give up on it. I like the idea of staggering the movement.. Clever! As it mentions up to 3 Androids I guess you're saying I can specify the amount to the other players?
 
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Adam Bignell wrote:
Thank you for this. This was helpful - I think I need to have a few games of this before I give up on it. I like the idea of staggering the movement.. Clever! As it mentions up to 3 Androids I guess you're saying I can specify the amount to the other players?


HB has 4 cards, I summarize them here:
Move exactly 1 Android, illness doesn't affect
Move 0-3 Android
Liquidate any one district, then move it to STRIKE
Give 3, 2, 1 capital to 3 different players

So there's a big difference between Efficiency Experts (must move exactly 1) and Labour Solutions (Move up to 3, meaning 0,1,2 or 3).

If I were HB (who has woefully I've not yet played), I would offer Efficiency Experts to get at least one Android into position -- then I'd offer the 'up to 3' card after my draw. "Oh look what I drew!". Or better yet, I move a singleton and let Jinteki move the rest into place on their effort, meaning I get paid twice.

The private contracts always pay, you don't have to be the one initiating the action.

The Liquidate action can give the City some breathing room -- you can Liquidate to effectively get an 'extra Android' onto the board for right now... and of course that gives you opportunities for High Risk Investments to inject some Capital into the system.

The game is structured to cause the following threat increases:

Missed Demand (3 times)
Events (6 times)
Illness (unknown)
Overflow of Tokens/Figures to root (unknown)

Of the 9 scheduled events, the City can miss probably 1 Demand and a few events (partial events might be ok) without completely setting the City on Fire.

Knowing when to go for, or when to ignore, the Demand and Events help shape when its best for you to leverage your private contract and emergency action.

(BTW, your Emergency Action *always* pays you -- you want to force that to fire at least once, if not twice, during the game.)




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Sounds like you might have been playing this too much like you would a co-op. You said, "I just felt that I was only really useful when you needed to move the Androids which wasn't very much." Who cares if the city NEEDS to move those bioriods. Just move them and force others to move them back. Remember you don't give an f about the city. All you care about is gettin real paid.
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clydeiii wrote:
Sounds like you might have been playing this too much like you would a co-op. You said, "I just felt that I was only really useful when you needed to move the Androids which wasn't very much." Who cares if the city NEEDS to move those bioriods. Just move them and force others to move them back.


It can be hard to get the other corps to agree to move the Androids if they are already 'in position'.

Of course then we use our other methods to force the City to want them to move. OrgCrime units reduce production, which means we may need to move the Androids or Liquidate. Human First completely shut down production eventually, which the other Corps can try to fix, but wouldn't it be better to just move the Androids?

You get the idea.
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byronczimmer wrote:
Adam Bignell wrote:

Hi Everyone,

I played New Angeles for the first time last night. I was playing with Haas-Bioroid and I failed miserably! I just felt that I was only really useful when you needed to move the Androids which wasn't very much. It could have been the shuffle of my cards, however I only really had 2 to choose from for half of the game.

Now in a group of intelligent people its incredibly hard to negotiate a card that really doesn't need to be used.

Also it seemed very luck based when it came to the achievement cards that were allocated. I could end up with achieving a max of 3 capital and someone else could get a card offering up to 7 capital.

So is playing with Hass-Bioroid hard to win?

I know that people complain about NBN but I don't see anyone having issues with Haas-Biodroid?




First NBN is hard to win -- now HB is hard to win... I am starting to see a trend.

HB wants the Androids to move frequently. The 'move a single Android' and 'move up to 3 Androids' both help you the same amount in terms of Private Contract Capital.

So... first offer up a single move, get one Android into place.
Then offer another move (single or multi) to finish the job.

Now you got paid twice.

If someone else offers to move the Androids - GREAT! You get paid even if you don't win the Deal round.

Androids cause Unrest or Outage when Human First is swinging their sledge hammers all around. Keep Weyland focused on handling outages and NOT building Arks - because Arks imply a permanently installed Android -- and we just determined that you'd rather move them 2-3 times per round.

Too often the board will want to keep three spots clear and produce half now and half later. That's inefficient! Much better to produce all of one resource you need RIGHT NOW and then move Androids for the second half of the Demand to finish off the need. That gives you more opportunities to do what you need to do.

Remember that Liquidation is another tool in the arsenal of meeting demand. Liquidate an area NOW and then offer to pre-position the Androids this round in anticipation of the next Demand phase.

When all of the Androids are in place - Focus on your High Risk Investments. Surely you can find two other Corporations interested in a little bit of extra graft right now given Demand is already being met because of your efficient placement of mechanized Labor.

Capital in this game does NOT only come from "lucky investment cards", it comes from:
- Capital Transfer from other Corps - usually done through Negotiation.
- Investment Cards - Luck being another term for "I don't know how to manipulate the board"
- Private Contracts - which we've discussed above
- High Risk Investments - which is a Labor card
- Assets - which come from winning Deals, which the Board needs you to do periodically if trying to meet demand.

You can't have a stake in every Deal. Pick your battles.


Can you mention a little more about Capital Transfer from other corps... i think we missed that??
 
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clydeiii wrote:
Sounds like you might have been playing this too much like you would a co-op. You said, "I just felt that I was only really useful when you needed to move the Androids which wasn't very much." Who cares if the city NEEDS to move those bioriods. Just move them and force others to move them back. Remember you don't give an f about the city. All you care about is gettin real paid.


This.

"Efficiency Experts" is a pun because it is -not- efficient. HB can really screw itself if it is too efficient. You should also kill offers that allow androids to remain in place for longer periods; unrest, outage, units.
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Adam Bignell wrote:
Can you mention a little more about Capital Transfer from other corps... i think we missed that??


I'll tell you, but you need to transfer me 2 Capital first.
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byronczimmer wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
Sounds like you might have been playing this too much like you would a co-op. You said, "I just felt that I was only really useful when you needed to move the Androids which wasn't very much." Who cares if the city NEEDS to move those bioriods. Just move them and force others to move them back.


It can be hard to get the other corps to agree to move the Androids if they are already 'in position'.

Of course then we use our other methods to force the City to want them to move. OrgCrime units reduce production, which means we may need to move the Androids or Liquidate. Human First completely shut down production eventually, which the other Corps can try to fix, but wouldn't it be better to just move the Androids?

You get the idea.


Genius!
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byronczimmer wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
Sounds like you might have been playing this too much like you would a co-op. You said, "I just felt that I was only really useful when you needed to move the Androids which wasn't very much." Who cares if the city NEEDS to move those bioriods. Just move them and force others to move them back.


It can be hard to get the other corps to agree to move the Androids if they are already 'in position'.

Of course then we use our other methods to force the City to want them to move. OrgCrime units reduce production, which means we may need to move the Androids or Liquidate. Human First completely shut down production eventually, which the other Corps can try to fix, but wouldn't it be better to just move the Androids?

You get the idea.
Exactly. Or just be a dick and move the roids to useless locations and force your rivals to waste actions to moving them back, all the while you make the profit$.
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Also remember that we dabble in Construction as well... What's that do for us?

Vanity Projects are a bribe to another player, or a way to dispose of a troublesome asset. These are general purpose.

Budget Renovations let us remove Outage tokens. Of course, we aren't going to remove OUTAGES from places the Androids sit when there are better places to clear which we'll then want to move the Androids TO.

Gentrification also removes OUTAGE and lets us drop in a PriSec. PriSec don't necessarily help us, but they do chase the undesirable elements to someplace else we might want to influence.

Ark Construction has already been mentioned. Those ARKs are beacons for Androids -- putting them places we want to move the Androids to is fine. Just expect the Android to want to stay there.

We have the tools to make the Board want to activate our Contract repeatedly. We are in a unique position to influence the Demand Market and overproduce on a resource type that is important to our bottom line due to private investments.

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clydeiii wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
Sounds like you might have been playing this too much like you would a co-op. You said, "I just felt that I was only really useful when you needed to move the Androids which wasn't very much." Who cares if the city NEEDS to move those bioriods. Just move them and force others to move them back.


It can be hard to get the other corps to agree to move the Androids if they are already 'in position'.

Of course then we use our other methods to force the City to want them to move. OrgCrime units reduce production, which means we may need to move the Androids or Liquidate. Human First completely shut down production eventually, which the other Corps can try to fix, but wouldn't it be better to just move the Androids?

You get the idea.
Exactly. Or just be a dick and move the roids to useless locations and force your rivals to waste actions to moving them back, all the while you make the profit$.


You only get to be a d**k once, because then you're labeled as a Federalist sympathizer. Remember, you cannot simply unilaterally do anything in this game, you need others to agree that it's a good idea, or at least not interfere when you're the primary offer.

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The thing to realize is that if you're in last place, you're going to lose. Maybe it is to the Federalist. Maybe it is to your rival. You don't care how you lose, only that you're losing. So start tanking the city just to slow down everyone else and let them know you mean business. Then extort them to ensure that you won't throw the game to the Federalist.
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clydeiii wrote:
The thing to realize is that if you're in last place, you're going to lose. Maybe it is to the Federalist. Maybe it is to your rival. You don't care how you lose, only that you're losing. So start tanking the city just to slow down everyone else and let them know you mean business. Then extort them to ensure that you won't throw the game to the Federalist.


Brinksmanship only matters if you can profit from it.

Understanding how HB can generate profit is the first goal.

It's very easy for other players to ensure you never win a Deal, which leaves you only to influence options others present.
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clydeiii wrote:
The thing to realize is that if you're in last place, you're going to lose. Maybe it is to the Federalist. Maybe it is to your rival. You don't care how you lose, only that you're losing. So start tanking the city just to slow down everyone else and let them know you mean business. Then extort them to ensure that you won't throw the game to the Federalist.


Actually - it is possible to win even with the least amount of capital, provided it's 25 and I'm the Fed.

Indeed, the Board should worry about any player who is complacent in last place.
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byronczimmer wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
The thing to realize is that if you're in last place, you're going to lose. Maybe it is to the Federalist. Maybe it is to your rival. You don't care how you lose, only that you're losing. So start tanking the city just to slow down everyone else and let them know you mean business. Then extort them to ensure that you won't throw the game to the Federalist.


Actually - it is possible to win even with the least amount of capital, provided it's 25 and I'm the Fed.

Indeed, the Board should worry about any player who is complacent in last place.


Just played this game for the first time last night, and won with Haas-Biodroid from the last place (still 28 cash) by getting everyone to support my emergency plan to meet the city Demand, then increasing wrong commodities and running the two Humans First dudes off the track for 4 threat. Not meeting the demand gave the 5 more threat I needed for federalist win. Somehow the others thought the guy next to me to be the federalist untill this last act. Normal play brought the threat up to 16 without me needing to boost it in any way before this. Owner of the game had played before, and there were four of us first timers.

Owner of the game told that three out of three games were won by the federalist so far.
 
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clydeiii wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
Sounds like you might have been playing this too much like you would a co-op. You said, "I just felt that I was only really useful when you needed to move the Androids which wasn't very much." Who cares if the city NEEDS to move those bioriods. Just move them and force others to move them back.


It can be hard to get the other corps to agree to move the Androids if they are already 'in position'.

Of course then we use our other methods to force the City to want them to move. OrgCrime units reduce production, which means we may need to move the Androids or Liquidate. Human First completely shut down production eventually, which the other Corps can try to fix, but wouldn't it be better to just move the Androids?

You get the idea.
Exactly. Or just be a dick and move the roids to useless locations and force your rivals to waste actions to moving them back, all the while you make the profit$.


That's the way Clyde. That's the way.
Force the others s**t down their throat.
True capitalism ... and a game that mimics that.
Try to always play things from that angle and you will win
 
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clydeiii wrote:
The thing to realize is that if you're in last place, you're going to lose. Maybe it is to the Federalist. Maybe it is to your rival. You don't care how you lose, only that you're losing. So start tanking the city just to slow down everyone else and let them know you mean business. Then extort them to ensure that you won't throw the game to the Federalist.


Yeah I think the good/bad part is once you "get" the game you start wanting to keep all the corps closely by. If someone lags behind a lot they can always extort you and even play to loose because they lose anyway. So keep the field tight.

If you have a single run-away leader however, then its harder a bit IMHO. Once you need his/her services what do you do? All take the damage because you want to stop the leading player?
 
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ionas wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
The thing to realize is that if you're in last place, you're going to lose. Maybe it is to the Federalist. Maybe it is to your rival. You don't care how you lose, only that you're losing. So start tanking the city just to slow down everyone else and let them know you mean business. Then extort them to ensure that you won't throw the game to the Federalist.


Yeah I think the good/bad part is once you "get" the game you start wanting to keep all the corps closely by. If someone lags behind a lot they can always extort you and even play to loose because they lose anyway. So keep the field tight.

If you have a single run-away leader however, then its harder a bit IMHO. Once you need his/her services what do you do? All take the damage because you want to stop the leading player?


There's not really any such thing as a "runaway leader" in this game. If one player goes far into the lead with capital, a maximum of only one other player at the table really cares. Why would the other players care?
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