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Subject: Questions while preparing for a campaign rss

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Andy Nichols
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I have some scenery and some Tau half painted and some scenery and Dark Eldar not even bought yet. Once I have finished buying and painting all that I'm going to play a campaign at home on my own controlling all the teams, like the nerd that I am. It will be Scouts, Orks, Tau, and Dark Eldar. I have some questions I want to clear up before I start in a few weeks time.

House rules

1. I dislike the 100 points you get to spend each time as when buying a new trooper or recruit as the amount left to spend on equipment will be the same each time and this discourages variety. I was thinking of changing it to (5D3)*10. This still averages out to 100. It has a theoretical range of 50-150 but mostly (more than 80% of the time) will be 80-120.

Take Tau for example. With 100 to spend I'd go for either a trooper with carbine and grenades, or recruit with carbine and visor or markerlight. There isn't much variety. However with varying points I'd be forced to do different things depending on the roll.

2. Allow storing of some points for future use. If you store you cannot buy anything and lose a percentage (lose 5 for every full 25 points maybe) of your total if you do. This is to allow the purchase of heavy weapons after a campaign has started, which would normally be difficult. Often a specialist + weapon costs more than 200, meaning you have to do it over 2 rounds, even if spending prometheum caches.

Are these good ideas, or would you leave it as is?

Rule queries

1. Shooting at a charging enemy. The rules say -1 penalty for shooting a target charging you (I can't remember the exact wording). Does this mean only get the penalty if the figure being charged is firing? Using overwatch or the Tau faction ability it's possible to shoot at an enemy charging a different figure. It would seem odd that there would be no penalty when a charge moves as fast as a run, which does have a -1.

2. Dead leaders. I wanted to check I had the rules right for a dead leader. When a leader dies nominate a new leader, this can't be a new recruit. They keep their equipment and characteristics and lose their current role.

Does this mean you could promote a specialist freeing up a slot for recruiting another specialist in future? This would mean teams with a dead leader could have one more heavy/special weapon than other teams.

Does the new leader equip from the leader options in future?

Does the new leader gain any leader special abilities, like the Tau or Genestealer Cult abilities to affect pinning and break tests at 12"?

Does the new leader gain the standard ability to affect pinning and break tests at 6"?

Does the new leader gain skills from the leader options in future?

I think the answer to all these is yes, but it wasn't completely clear to me.

Figure numbers

Can I get by with the orks in the base game? My initial roster uses all the figures except the two heavies. Buying them may take a few rounds. Once bought I'll probably have a dead ork or two to replace. After that there is always equipment to buy, especially heavy armour at 25 each.

I'm not sure whether to buy an extra box of ork boyz in anticipation of needing it. On the one hand I suspect I can get away without it, on the other orks are supposed to be used in large numbers. Will I spoil my fun only using 11 figures? It will still be slightly more than any other faction I'm using so they can still get a bonus.
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Re: Questions while preparing for a campaing
AndyNichols wrote:
I have some scenery and some Tau half painted and some scenery and Dark Eldar not even bought yet. Once I have finished buying and painting all that I'm going to play a campaign at home on my own controlling all the teams, like the nerd that I am. It will be Scouts, Orks, Tau, and Dark Eldar. I have some questions I want to clear up before I start in a few weeks time.

House rules

1. I dislike the 100 points you get to spend each time as when buying a new trooper or recruit as the amount left to spend on equipment will be the same each time and this discourages variety. I was thinking of changing it to (5D3)*10. This still averages out to 100. It has a theoretical range of 50-150 but mostly (more than 80% of the time) will be 80-120.

Take Tau for example. With 100 to spend I'd go for either a trooper with carbine and grenades, or recruit with carbine and visor or markerlight. There isn't much variety. However with varying points I'd be forced to do different things depending on the roll.

2. Allow storing of some points for future use. If you store you cannot buy anything and lose a percentage (lose 5 for every full 25 points maybe) of your total if you do. This is to allow the purchase of heavy weapons after a campaign has started, which would normally be difficult. Often a specialist + weapon costs more than 200, meaning you have to do it over 2 rounds, even if spending prometheum caches.

Are these good ideas, or would you leave it as is?

In MY esteemed OPINIONS (and in no way Chapter and Verse)...

Try the campaign as written. You will learn whether you like it, and whether it's worth changing. I agree that 100 pts. per game is a lot. But, with no bank, and restrictions on spending (stuff OR New Recruits), it seems you run out of things to buy before you run out of points. And, the game does not emphasize points. For instance, my lovable Genestealer Cult has a Specialist with Scavenger. Right there, if he does not go out-of-action, I get an extra 50 pts. to spend after each game. The designers don't think a 50% increase is unbalancing. Neither do I. Nice to have, not need to have. I would be reluctant to make points a significant factor in campaign progress.



Quote:
Rule queries

1. Shooting at a charging enemy. The rules say -1 penalty for shooting a target charging you (I can't remember the exact wording). Does this mean only get the penalty if the figure being charged is firing? Using overwatch or the Tau faction ability it's possible to shoot at an enemy charging a different figure. It would seem odd that there would be no penalty when a charge moves as fast as a run, which does have a -1.

2. Dead leaders. I wanted to check I had the rules right for a dead leader. When a leader dies nominate a new leader, this can't be a new recruit. They keep their equipment and characteristics and lose their current role.

Does this mean you could promote a specialist freeing up a slot for recruiting another specialist in future? This would mean teams with a dead leader could have one more heavy/special weapon than other teams.

Does the new leader equip from the leader options in future?

Does the new leader gain any leader special abilities, like the Tau or Genestealer Cult abilities to affect pinning and break tests at 12"?

Does the new leader gain the standard ability to affect pinning and break tests at 6"?

Does the new leader gain skills from the leader options in future?

I think the answer to all these is yes, but it wasn't completely clear to me.

Figure numbers

Can I get by with the orks in the base game? My initial roster uses all the figures except the two heavies. Buying them may take a few rounds. Once bought I'll probably have a dead ork or two to replace. After that there is always equipment to buy, especially heavy armour at 25 each.

I'm not sure whether to buy an extra box of ork boyz in anticipation of needing it. On the one hand I suspect I can get away without it, on the other orks are supposed to be used in large numbers. Will I spoil my fun only using 11 figures? It will still be slightly more than any other faction I'm using so they can still get a bonus.

1) The special Tau rule makes things fuzzy. It's the one instance the Over-Watching shooter is NOT being charged, whilst the target is charging. My interpretation would be to treat it like a Running target.
2) Yes to all, even the extra Specialist (the old Leader is no longer a Specialist, but keeps his previous equipment).

Hope I'm right, hope this helps.
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Kevin Outlaw
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I wouldn't adjust the 100 points thing. Even if you end up buying the same recruits each time, you can change their loadouts after future games.

I wouldn't allow storing points either. If you were facing something like Grey Knights, I think you'd regret it if they could get a new recruit every other game.

The charging rules specifically say the modifier applies if a model is charging the shooter.

If your leader dies, a replacement becomes the new leader, "losing their previous role." By my reckoning, that means you can't let them use heavy weapons anymore. They become the leader, with all the pros and cons that entails. I think it requires a FAQ for clarification though.

If you go to a Game store and look for their Battle for Vedros stand, you can pick up a box of 4 orks for a couple of quid (it's the same set that is £6 from GW).
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Eric Franklin
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
If you go to a Game store and look for their Battle for Vedros stand, you can pick up a box of 4 orks for a couple of quid (it's the same set that is £6 from GW).


Or you can buy the Ork Boyz squad box for around $30.

The Vedros Ork Box was $2.72 per figure on Amazon ($10.89 for the box). The Boyz box is $2.63 per figure.

The Vedros STARTER is actually about $1.50 per figure - but you'll be stuck with some Space Marines, unless you and a friend divide the cost up somehow.

Orks are cheap enough in SW:A that you'll be hitting 20 Orks pretty quickly. You can even start with 20 if you really want to.
 
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Gamethyme wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
If you go to a Game store and look for their Battle for Vedros stand, you can pick up a box of 4 orks for a couple of quid (it's the same set that is £6 from GW).


Or you can buy the Ork Boyz squad box for around $30.

The Vedros Ork Box was $2.72 per figure on Amazon ($10.89 for the box). The Boyz box is $2.63 per figure.

The Vedros STARTER is actually about $1.50 per figure - but you'll be stuck with some Space Marines, unless you and a friend divide the cost up somehow.

Orks are cheap enough in SW:A that you'll be hitting 20 Orks pretty quickly. You can even start with 20 if you really want to.


In the UK, the Vedros 4-pack is £3, half the price of the same box from GW. The ork boyz box is £18 for 11 figures.

It depends how you want to kit them out really, as the Vedros 4-pack only gives you choppas and sluggas, but you do get a lot of leftover bits from the orks in the base game too.

By the way - the Vedros gretchin team is also worth it in the UK. You can get it for £5 off the shelf, but the same kit is £10 from GW.

Edit - forgot to say: I believe Vedros is being discontinued. I have seen photographs of a new set containing the space marine and tyranid models from Battle for Macragge (plus some Cadians), which I suspect will replace Vedros (probably in line with the new edition of 40K coming out). I'm not sure if the current cheap Vedros prices in the UK are to sell off stock, or if they were always that cheap. Either way, the "Game" shops around my way seem very low on Vedros stock, and I'm not sure it's going to get replaced.

Anyway, sorry for the tangent.
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Andy Nichols
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Thanks all. I'll be near a Game on Saturday so I'll pop in and have a look. I didn't even realise they sold miniatures. I thought they sold computer games only and seeing as I buy all mine from Steam these days I haven't been in a Game for over 10 years.
 
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ZombieMark wrote:

1) The special Tau rule makes things fuzzy. It's the one instance the Over-Watching shooter is NOT being charged, whilst the target is charging. My interpretation would be to treat it like a Running target.
2) Yes to all, even the extra Specialist (the old Leader is no longer a Specialist, but keeps his previous equipment).

Hope I'm right, hope this helps.


Re: 2): Pretty sure thats not how it works. As far as I can tell, the new leader *does* gain access to leader specific skills, but *not* to leader specific equipment. Why? Because equipment never mentions leaders or specialists in SWA. It relies on the actual names. So for the Inquisition team for instance, the needle pistol is limited to Inquisitors. Not leaders. So even if your crusader was now your leader, he would still only be a crusader, not an inquisitor.
 
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Mark
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I think we are both right. The new leader "looses their previous roles, but keeping their characteristics, skills, and equipment." So, no longer a Specialists, now a Leader. But, retaining any Specialist weapons. However, they do not become a Sergeant, or Inquisitor, or, Boss Nob. So, no W&E specific to that title.
 
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AndyNichols wrote:
Thanks all. I'll be near a Game on Saturday so I'll pop in and have a look. I didn't even realise they sold miniatures. I thought they sold computer games only and seeing as I buy all mine from Steam these days I haven't been in a Game for over 10 years.


I emptied the shelf at my local Game today. This is the stuff you're looking for:



 
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Andy Nichols
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
I emptied the shelf at my local Game today. This is the stuff you're looking for


I went in to my local Game today and they didn't have anything. I was the only person in the shop on a busy high street on Saturday morning. I suspect they'll close soon.
 
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Dave Graffam
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I see nothing in the rules to indicate that a fighter can straddle two roles, taking skill advances from one while being limited to the wargear options of another. I see nothing in the rules that indicates that the flavorful names attached to team roles are anything other than flavorful handles for those team roles.

When a Yoof gains its third Mission Completed mark and becomes a trooper, is it still a Yoof? I think not -- it is a Boy now. The wargear options are the same between Yoofs and Boys, but it seems clear to me that the title of "Yoof" doesn't have any power of its own. A Yoof that is promoted to a trooper is now a Boy -- the name attached to all troopers in an Ork Boyz kill team.

Likewise, when a Boy or other fighter is promoted to replace the Team Leader, they are no longer a Boy -- they are a Boss Nob, because that's the name attached to the role of team leader in Ork Boyz kill teams. A Boss Nob can buy wargear listed for Boss Nobs, and learns skills as a Boss Nob. Seems clear to me.

Any other interpretation requires some rules voodoo that I'm not buying until the FAQ says differently (which it might -- I'm only going by the rules as written).
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I'm not sure I agree, Dave -- the FAQ made it very confusing for me.

For reference, the FAQ says:

Quote:
Q. If a leader dies in battle, in the post-game sequence another member of the kill team takes the role of leader. But the rulebook says that if you have a leader you can't have another one. If my Scout Sergeant dies, and another Scout takes his place, does this mean I can't recruit another Scout Sergeant for the rest of the campaign?

Yes.


The FAQ does not make it clear whether the model takes on the Scout Sergeant access to weapons. See posts below and p. 100 of the RAW.

My kind of "straight" reading of the rules is that the model you select for leader is the leader of the Kill Team, but that otherwise, nothing changes and you're kind of out of luck for the rest of the campaign.

Not saying *disagree*, but I believe the RAW just state that the model becomes the "leader" which is needed for purposes of fear tests and ranges of models to "the leader" -- nothing seems to indicate that the model's access to anything changes.


Edits: Correct answer below.
 
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The role-straddling interpretation is almost certainly wrong. The language describing how new recruits are upgraded to troopers is unambiguous -- the new recruit loses their previous role and is now a trooper.

The language for promoting a fighter to replace a slain team leader is the same -- losing your previous role. I see no reason to treat this situation any differently than promoting new recruits to troopers.
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cmontgo2 wrote:
I'm not sure I agree, Dave -- the FAQ made it very confusing for me.

For reference, the FAQ says:

Quote:
Q. If a leader dies in battle, in the post-game sequence another member of the kill team takes the role of leader. But the rulebook says that if you have a leader you can't have another one. If my Scout Sergeant dies, and another Scout takes his place, does this mean I can't recruit another Scout Sergeant for the rest of the campaign?

Yes.


I believe what the FAQ is clearing up is that you can't purchase a Scout Sergeant during a campaign -- you have to promote one of your other fighters to that role. Once your team leader is replaced, you have a Scout Sergeant -- that's the name of the team leader role. You can't recruit an all-new Scout Sergeant because that role is filled -- and you can only have one team leader (page 71).
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DagobahDave wrote:
The role-straddling interpretation is almost certainly wrong. The language describing how new recruits are upgraded to troopers is unambiguous -- the new recruit loses their previous role and is now a trooper.

The language for promoting a fighter to replace a slain team leader is the same -- losing your previous role. I see no reason to treat this situation any differently than promoting new recruits to troopers.


I see what you are saying, now, and I agree with you.

But the promotion thing it is NOT the same as regards characteristics, which another thing that I was confused about.

When a new leader is promoted, they do *not* gain the characteristics of a kill them leader. They keep their stat line, skills, and equipment. But I see what you were meaning and what I had wrong: for future purchases, they gain access to the leader's equipment list. Don't know why I missed that before.

For reference for those following along:

Promoting from a New Recruit to a Trooper: ". . . . losing their previous role and changing their characteristics to match those of a trooper of their faction, but keeping their equipment." (p. 100).

Promoting a new leader: "They become the kill team leader, losing their previous role but keeping their characteristics, skills and equipment." (i.e., they do not gain leader stats when promoted).

It is much clearer to me now, and thanks for the replies. I would have played it completely wrong!
 
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DagobahDave wrote:
I see nothing

I completely disagree! I think you see everything. I think you have it right.

A team has to have a Leader. My Leader dies. Which sucks. I cannot promote a New Recruit. So, I promote a Specialist to be my new leader. No matter what he is called, his new role is Leader. He is no longer a Specialists. He takes on all the Leader traits, and skills available, while retaining his previous stats, skills, and equipment. BTW, those Leader only attributes are typically best used up front, not in the back manning a Heavy Weapon. The only thing that is controversial is he might now have "Specialist only equipment." That's OK, he could conceivably trade it away. But, since he is no longer a Specialist, he can't acquire more Specialist equipment. He can acquire the equipment his faction's rules allow for a Leader. Yes, this would this open up a Specialists "slot." It's not like losing a leader is a positive.
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I found a way to fill out my ork boyz cheaply. At my FLGS they had a pack of these: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Ork-Boyz-4-models. There's no choice of weapons, but I don't really need it. Slugga and Choppa is what I'd probably have given them anyway. If I find I need more than 15 figures I'll just buy another pack. If I need a 20th figure I'll use one of my orc blood bowl players as a proxy.

Now I just need to find out whether my scenery is enough. I have the set from the SW:A, https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Sector-Mechanicum-Prome..., https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Munitorum-Armoured-Cont..., and https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Sector-Mechanicum-Galva....
 
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AndyNichols wrote:
I found a way to fill out my ork boyz cheaply. At my FLGS they had a pack of these: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Ork-Boyz-4-models. There's no choice of weapons, but I don't really need it. Slugga and Choppa is what I'd probably have given them anyway. If I find I need more than 15 figures I'll just buy another pack. If I need a 20th figure I'll use one of my orc blood bowl players as a proxy.

Now I just need to find out whether my scenery is enough. I have the set from the SW:A, https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Sector-Mechanicum-Prome..., https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Munitorum-Armoured-Cont..., and https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Sector-Mechanicum-Galva....


Yes. That four pack is the same one from the Battle for Vedros line sold in Game stores, just in different packaging. Except in Game they are 2.99 a box.
 
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