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Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » Variants

Subject: X-wing: Title card idea rss

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Foggy Leggy
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Title: Maximum Efficiency (-2) (T-65 only)

==
You may equip a second modification. The total cost of all equipped mods may not exceed 5.
==

The x-wing, as is popularly recognized, suffers from a a combination of three problems which no other ship in the rebel lineup does.
A) it has no re-repositioning ability
B) it only has 5 HP
C) it's weapons can only face forward

The biggest of these problems(IMHO) is A). A skilled player might be able to deal with B) but A) demands a lot more ability especially given the current roster of potential opponent craft it could face. A) also makes C) a lot more difficult to deal with. The one hull granted by Integrated Astromech I would argue doesn't address the t-65's primary problem which is why it still doesn't see much competitive play.

Now while giving it an extra mod slot seems like giving it a lot, it really isn't when you look at the mods available to it.

There are only 9 modifications an x-wing can take.

Integrated Astromech - 0

Guidance Chips - 0
Munitions Failsafe - 1

Hull Upgrade -3
Shield Upgrade - 4

Experimental Interface - 3

Stealth Device - 3
Vectored Thrusters - 2
Engine Upgrade - 4



IA should just be given to X-wings by default in my opinion. They're waaay to squishy for a craft that can't reposition so two mods means you can always bring it along.

The two torpedo upgrades just make the potential single torpedo an x-wing is carrying a bit more effective. Given that most torpedoes are overcosted and the x-wing can only carry one anyway I say let it be a slightly better torpedo shooter if it wants. It can be an angle for the craft that helps justify it's value. Even taking both wouldn't make much difference since you'd give up any repositioning mods and IA.

Regarding the Hull and Shield upgrades you'd never take both (since you'd always take IA in place of one) but even if you stacked either with IA you'd be leaving the respositioning problem unaddressed. You'd have 7 HP (still less than a y-wing) and still be a flying brick that's easily dodged/outmaneuvered.

This leaves us with only experimental interface, stealth device, vectored thrusters and engine upgrade.

Experimental interface - no mods you could take require actions which means only droids and elite talents could be used. For astromechs, only three of them require actions (R7-T1, R2-F2 and R5-D8). This seems fine to me as you couldn't use EI to spam any of them without really sacrificing your movement as the X-wing isn't a great stress clearer to begin with. Regarding elites talents, none of the ones involving an action would push any x-wing pilot into "auto-include" territory on any list and the stress cost+difficulty in clearing stress it would incur keeps those benefits in check anyway.

Now we have what I think are the only really valuable mods an x-wing might take in addition to integrated astromech.

Stealth device - The naturally squishy nature of an x-wing and stealth device's high cost and potential to be disabled anyway make this a potentially ok upgrade for those who think they can keep coughing up the focus from another craft but again this sacrifices the ability to do any maneuvering actions you might equip. Might be ok if taken with something else or if taking biggs with R2 F2 (but you wouldn't be able to focus if activating F2) but generally I don't think most x-wing's would want this anyway.

Now we get into repositioning mods. I don't think the X-wing should be allowed access to both boost and barrel roll but the x-wing needs SOME reliable repositioning ability. By giving it access to one of these two but not both I think we solve a lot of the X-wing's problems. Most I think would go for either engine upgrade/vectored thrusters and then fit in IA. Alternatively you could take one of the repositioning mods and take your chances as a better torpedo shooter or experimental interface (only one of which is allowed in a squad anyway) now that you can position a little better.

(If it were up to me I'd also allow the card to give an elite slot to PS 6 if only to make Garven more useful)

So two mod slots with a restriction of 5 points. Fixes problem A) and allows you to take your chances on problem B) directly through IA or otherwise build to taste without allowing you to go crazy.

Thoughts?










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Richard Spruce
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Instead of saying t-65 only it would be better to say "x-wing only - you cannot equip this card if your ship has the "boost" icon" as unfortunately there's no such thing as a t-65 x-wing in the x-wing miniatures game (only x-wings and t-70 x-wings). Pedantic I know but that's the terminology used in the game.
Other than that I like the idea.

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Patrick McElfresh
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Or you could just errata in that X-Wings have a barrel roll natively. I have been meaning to go watch the OT again, but I think you see X-Wings do similar moves in the films, so I don't feel like it ruins the ship flavor-wise.

That said, I don't know if FFG would do so, as they wouldn't have a card to release. Maybe...the heavy syck title update was somewhat similar. I'm unsure if the T-65 really needs this though. Yeah, it's not on every list, but Biggs was certainly around at Worlds.

There are probably other ships that see very little play that I personally would rather see them focus on. For example, I won't buy a StarViper since I won't play it. I don't care if there are autothrusters in it.

I play serious casual - I won't do tourneys since I know it'll make me enjoy the game less, but I play at my local store and am up on the current meta...so take this as simply my opinion with that background.

Also keeps me from needing autothrusters.
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Ian
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On paper, the T-65 is a fairly balanced ship in terms of stats. That might make it tough for FFG to tinker with it too drastically - especially if the points are on with what it can do (unlike the A-Wing, I think). I think it does suffer a bit from being the first rebel fighter released because of it (possibly lacking some of the actions that probably would have been thrown on had it been released later ... but, again, I think the A-Wing/TIE INT having the Barrel Roll at the time of their release was supposed to be their specialty), but I also agree that Biggs does seem to appear frequently on tourney lists (I am also a casual player, but I do check out the forums to see what others come up with). The problem with being balanced is that it is probably too vanilla for lists that work on strengths (the T-65's mediocrity being its "strength"?).

I like the title, though. If it works for you - use it!

*edit*
I will add that the Y and A Wings have been bolstered by intentional upgrades (TLTs, Stressbot, Chardaan refits, etc) that did make them pretty relevant picks. The T-65 has Vectored Thrusters and IA that seem to be specifically for it ... so that might help it out a bit.

 
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Rogue Knight
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Honestly, after reading the books and seeing how often X-wing pilots used torpedoes, I'd say find a way to make it be the best torpedo shooter in the game. It gets that one shot, and then it's "just" a regular old X-Wing, but having higher odds of getting hits from your warheads would definitely be appealing to many players. It's a niche, sure, but one that I think would make the X-Wing a bit more interesting.

I kind of like the fact that it doesn't have a re-positioning ability. I don't really think it should.
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Matej Gába
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RogueKnight wrote:
Honestly, after reading the books and seeing how often X-wing pilots used torpedoes, I'd say find a way to make it be the best torpedo shooter in the game. It gets that one shot, and then it's "just" a regular old X-Wing, but having higher odds of getting hits from your warheads would definitely be appealing to many players. It's a niche, sure, but one that I think would make the X-Wing a bit more interesting.

I kind of like the fact that it doesn't have a re-positioning ability. I don't really think it should.


So what about something like:
"Cost -2. You may equip up to 3 modification upgrades with combined cost 1 or less."

This will mean you will probably going to equip Integrated Astromech, Guidance Chips and Munition Failsafe. Note that that the total cost of modifications is 1 or less, so this means if you want to equip Vectored Thrusters, you cannot equip this title.
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Joseph Cowlishaw
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Optix47 wrote:
Instead of saying t-65 only it would be better to say "x-wing only - you cannot equip this card if your ship has the "boost" icon" as unfortunately there's no such thing as a t-65 x-wing in the x-wing miniatures game (only x-wings and t-70 x-wings). Pedantic I know but that's the terminology used in the game.
Other than that I like the idea.



Which would prevent them equipping Engine Upgrade as one of the two modifications - not a bad thing, because Vectored Thrusters is a better value for points to add some repositioning ability, but worth noting.


The generic X-wing suffers from being a heavy swarm ship which can't swarm.

It's balanced - very nicely balanced, in fact - against the Cartel Marauder Khiraxz, Striker, Alpha Squadron Interceptor, Unguided Rocket/Lightweight Frame Bomber and Zealous Recruit. The only difference is a single point, but annoyingly it's the one point which prevents you having five ships instead of four.

This way, you can equip a fifth ship, and give them all vectored thrusters - which actually probably makes them the single best heavy swarmer:

"Maximum Efficiency" Rookie Pilot with Vectored Thrusters vs Cartel Marauder - the only heavy swarmer with much of a competitive pedigree to date.

~you swap one hull for a shield and gain barrel roll. (major advantage)
~you swap speed 1 turns for speed 3 turns (minor disadvantage)
~you swap the speed 5 k-turn for speed 1 straights (about equal)


Equally, the ability to pack targeting astromech (and integrated astromech) and still field 5 ships is....really harsh.


 
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Matt Asher
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RogueKnight wrote:
Honestly, after reading the books and seeing how often X-wing pilots used torpedoes, I'd say find a way to make it be the best torpedo shooter in the game. It gets that one shot, and then it's "just" a regular old X-Wing, but having higher odds of getting hits from your warheads would definitely be appealing to many players. It's a niche, sure, but one that I think would make the X-Wing a bit more interesting.

I kind of like the fact that it doesn't have a re-positioning ability. I don't really think it should.

"At the start of the Combat Round, you may acquire a Target Lock."

This should give TL + Focus for the torpedos but maybe also allow them to not discard the torpedo after use?
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theashers wrote:
RogueKnight wrote:
Honestly, after reading the books and seeing how often X-wing pilots used torpedoes, I'd say find a way to make it be the best torpedo shooter in the game. It gets that one shot, and then it's "just" a regular old X-Wing, but having higher odds of getting hits from your warheads would definitely be appealing to many players. It's a niche, sure, but one that I think would make the X-Wing a bit more interesting.

I kind of like the fact that it doesn't have a re-positioning ability. I don't really think it should.

"At the start of the Combat Round, you may acquire a Target Lock."

This should give TL + Focus for the torpedos but maybe also allow them to not discard the torpedo after use?


I like this, but it may be too strong because it will also work after you've fired your torpedoes and give you a TL+F every combat round... But this seems most thematice to me.

The combined upgrade card is also a good idea, but I don't know if there are enough otions to make it worthwhile.
 
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Matt Asher
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RogueKnight wrote:
theashers wrote:
RogueKnight wrote:
Honestly, after reading the books and seeing how often X-wing pilots used torpedoes, I'd say find a way to make it be the best torpedo shooter in the game. It gets that one shot, and then it's "just" a regular old X-Wing, but having higher odds of getting hits from your warheads would definitely be appealing to many players. It's a niche, sure, but one that I think would make the X-Wing a bit more interesting.

I kind of like the fact that it doesn't have a re-positioning ability. I don't really think it should.

"At the start of the Combat Round, you may acquire a Target Lock."

This should give TL + Focus for the torpedos but maybe also allow them to not discard the torpedo after use?


I like this, but it may be too strong because it will also work after you've fired your torpedoes and give you a TL+F every combat round... But this seems most thematice to me.

The combined upgrade card is also a good idea, but I don't know if there are enough otions to make it worthwhile.

Maybe restrict the TL to secondary weapon use only, and also give it a free munitions token, for a second shot with the torps

"At the start of the Combat Round, you may acquire a Target Lock. This TL may only be used with a torpedo upgrade.
After setup, assign one Munitions token to a torpedo upgrade."
 
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