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Subject: KS page artwork....ugh. rss

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Jeff M
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Took one look at the KS face page with the purple haired female...whatever she is...and just shuddered.
Decided to scratch another KS off my list.
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Herodotus Halicarnassus
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My favorite BGG meme currently is guys making themselves feel superior by not-so-subtly accusing female artists / art directors of sexism in their art.
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Jeff M
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Herodotus Herodotus wrote:
My favorite BGG meme currently is guys making themselves feel superior by not-so-subtly accusing female artists / art directors of sexism in their art.


Meme? Hmm. I would not have thought the term appropriate for the situation you are referring to.

Is the artist/art director female for this game? If so, I still don't like the artwork. I am not a fan of cartoony looking game art...no matter what sex/race/religion the artist/game publisher is.
The picture posted on the KS page is particularly so.

Along the same lines, one of MY pet peeves is people accusing others of sexism/racism/whateverism. The accusation is a slanderous one against which there is no real defense often based only on the accuser disagreeing with the original opinion and lacking the energy and/or intelligence to engage in a thoughtful discussion.






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Brian Baier
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The real problem is the marketing. This is the second kickstarter I've seeen plague BGG with overly sexual banners (read: female objectification) as click-bait. After looking through the images of the game components, there was nothing so objectionable, and I didn't even see that particular image among them.

It's just disappointing.
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Trent Y.
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Lowden025 wrote:
Took one look at the KS face page with the purple haired female...whatever she is...and just shuddered.
Decided to scratch another KS off my list.


Thank you for this. I'm of the same opinion.

An ad should tempt me and sell me on a game. What is this game about? Why should I be interested in it?

Bum shot of a topless woman? It's clear to me what they are selling.
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Shelby Babb
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Lowden025 wrote:

Is the artist/art director female for this game? If so, I still don't like the artwork. I am not a fan of cartoony looking game art...no matter what sex/race/religion the artist/game publisher is.
The picture posted on the KS page is particularly so.


So, you started a thread to let people know you don't like cartoony art.

Gotcha'.

I mean, hell, I don't like it either. But I don't start threads on it.

Lowden025 wrote:

Along the same lines, one of MY pet peeves is people accusing others of sexism/racism/whateverism. The accusation is a slanderous one against which there is no real defense often based only on the accuser disagreeing with the original opinion and lacking the energy and/or intelligence to engage in a thoughtful discussion.


Problem is, in this thread alone, we have two other people complaining about the sexual nature of the marketing. And personally, I find -that- more substantive* than a simple "I don't like this because it's silly" statement. Thinking you're taking a stand on a subject many people find serious ("the negative impacts of sexualization vs. artistic expression and personal choice") gives your OP -more- weight and depth than it really holds.

That discussion is much more likely to generate a thoughtful discussion than the even more subjective "I don't like this because I find it cartoony" reasoning you purportedly stated to have.

(*at this point in BGG discussions, we get it. Some people don't like cheesecake/porn/sexualization in their games. Some people do. Pretty much everyone is sick of hearing what other people think on the subject though, and we can expect mods to come in and shut it down shortly because it never ends well.)
 
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Kevin Marema
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San Dee Jota wrote:

Problem is, in this thread alone, we have two other people complaining about the sexual nature of the marketing.


Make that three. I actually dropped by here just to see if anyone else was talking about it. I'm not really offended by things of a sexual nature, but the advertisement that's been in my sidebar actually prevents me from having any interest in the game. Just saying.
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Tommaso Mondadori
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Hi guys,
Tommaso from Reggie Games here.

Just want to make our position clear:

1. The overall artwork in the game has no sexual overtones at all.

2. There are plenty of provocative images in many recent games (videogames as well as boardgames). Honestly, I couldn't imagine that these ones would have generated such an issue. We've always considered those illustrations to be charming, of course, but not dirty (our opinion, obviously).

3. We have many different creatives designed for the banner rotation. The system, since it's really well optimized, displays that banner more often due to its high performance. It's not about someone's choice.
The data clearly suggest that the "accused banner" is widely the most efficient. I'm not here to discuss any implication of this (if it's right or wrong), just want to present the facts.

4. We are really sorry (and a bit surprised too) that the banner is inducing such a bad reaction.
We will consider the possibility to remove it from the rotation.

Hope you will take a look at the game as well
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Shelby Babb
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Tommaso Mondadori wrote:

3. We have many different creatives designed for the banner rotation. The system, since it's really well optimized, displays that banner more often due to its high performance. It's not about someone's choice.
The data clearly suggest that the "accused banner" is widely the most efficient. I'm not here to discuss any implication of this (if it's right or wrong), just want to present the facts.


"Sex gets attention. Here's the data." I don't blame you guys for going that route, or continuing to go that route. I am curious if it still -sells- though.

My only two gripes:

1) It kinda' makes my BGG browsing a bit less comfortable in public.
2) There is -much- better character art in your game you could've chosen. Seriously, even ignoring the sex angle (and to be honest, I've lightened up on that piece and don't hate it anymore), there's simply more talented pieces on display in your KS you could've worked with.
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Shelby Babb
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elucidarian wrote:
After looking through the images of the game components, there was nothing so objectionable, and I didn't even see that particular image among them.


It's in there. The 8th character listed in the core set.
 
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Brian Baier
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San Dee Jota wrote:
elucidarian wrote:
After looking through the images of the game components, there was nothing so objectionable, and I didn't even see that particular image among them.


It's in there. The 8th character listed in the core set.

Yet, THAT's the one they chose.

[EDIT: I missed the post above stating that the system "displays that banner more often due to its high performance."]
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Shelby Babb
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elucidarian wrote:
Yet, THAT's the one they chose.


They knew it'd get attention. Can't blame them for that. And as much as people like to say "won't someone think of the wimmin", plenty of women enjoy well done pictures of attractive women (no, it's not universal, but it's not uncommon either).

The problem here (not counting odd looks my wife gives me every time I open a page on BGG. "I swear honey, I'm not looking at hentai!") is you have a female figure with her head rotated so far it's shattering some of those extra vertabrae she has, and it's in a style/quality the rest of the game doesn't really share. Sibena and Thiara are both much better pieces, but I'm willing to bet they wouldn't have gotten as many clicks as pensive-ass-girl.

(I kinda' like the Okuni design. Her neck is absurdly long, but it -works- for a deer-spirit-woman-thingy. Although female does don't grow full antler racks... but when talking about deer-spirit-women-things, it's probably best to err on the side of what looks cooler.)
 
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Scott Everts
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One thing you have to say about BGG is consistency. If you have anything even remotely sexy in your board game art, there will be a thread about it guaranteed!
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Alice Penn Howard
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Just wanna chime in that, as a woman I have no issues with the art used to promote the game or any of the art in the game. I enjoy sexy female characters as well as strong female characters
Sibena is badass as hell, she will break you in two. Okuni from the expanion has a really cool aesthetic that I did.
And on the other end of the coin theres perseo whos the obvious eyecandy for those who have more masculine tastes in attraction
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James
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Herodotus Herodotus wrote:
My favorite BGG meme currently is guys making themselves feel superior by not-so-subtly accusing female artists / art directors of sexism in their art.


Whether the art is sexist or not is nearly irrelevant.

I don't want that shit showing up on my screen when I'm browsing a website for games. I personally find it grossly exploitative to use an anatomically impossible pose designed to throw an ass in my face to advertise something, and wish BGG did more monitoring of this garbage lowest-common-denominator advertising.

Just because the data says something is effective doesn't make your company any less shitty for choosing to do it. This has easily joined my "company whose products I will never purchase" list.
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Rhonda A.
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I do have to say, I looked over the Kickstarter page, and I think that most of the game art looks really great. I think that the Zembla character looks really out of place compared to the others, because she is basically wearing scanty underwear and that is it. As it is with that being the ad image splashed all over BGG, I would never have clicked on it. But if it had been some of the other art, like Thiara or Okuni I would have been intrigued and would have clicked on it. And my daughter loved Pinch BTW.
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that Matt
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eviljelloman wrote:
I don't want that shit showing up on my screen when I'm browsing a website for games. I personally find it grossly exploitative to use an anatomically impossible pose designed to throw an ass in my face to advertise something

Anatomically impossible? I suspect she has some sort of 360-degree owl neck. Magic!
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Neil Hale
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The artwork looks fine to me, some is pretty damn good. The only thing that concerns me is the potential lawsuit for the name ELO especially as its a band name, and there is nothing more that the music industry loves than litigation.
 
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that Matt
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B0bafett wrote:
The artwork looks fine to me, some is pretty damn good. The only thing that concerns me is the potential lawsuit for the name ELO especially as its a band name, and there is nothing more that the music industry loves than litigation.

Unless Electric Light Orchestra is in the middle of releasing a line of board games, there's no reason to be concerned about this.
 
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Moisés Solé
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ELO is also a well-known ranking system, which is what the title is referencing.
 
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Anon Y. Mous
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referee wrote:
ELO is also a well-known ranking system, which is what the title is referencing.


It's not an acronym, however. It's Elo (a name, only the first letter is capitalized), named after Arpad Elo.
 
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Mario Engel
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eviljelloman wrote:
Herodotus Herodotus wrote:
My favorite BGG meme currently is guys making themselves feel superior by not-so-subtly accusing female artists / art directors of sexism in their art.


Whether the art is sexist or not is nearly irrelevant.

I don't want that shit showing up on my screen when I'm browsing a website for games. I personally find it grossly exploitative to use an anatomically impossible pose designed to throw an ass in my face to advertise something, and wish BGG did more monitoring of this garbage lowest-common-denominator advertising.

Just because the data says something is effective doesn't make your company any less shitty for choosing to do it. This has easily joined my "company whose products I will never purchase" list.


Oh come on! Relax a little. Why is sex so evil? The artwork is well done and definitely not porn. So where is the problem? Really I don't get it. Can somebody please explain this to me?

Why to you have to insult the work of another person who invested his time and energy to create something for others, call it "shit" and "garbage" only because you don't like it for some reason? Please look up tolerance. I don't like dry euro style game themes like farming in the middle ages. But I don't insult anybody who creates or likes those games. People are different and enjoy different things. It is such an amazing time for board gamers, there is the right game for everyone, kids, casual gamers, strategic, abstract, thematic... so enjoy your kind of games and let others enjoy theirs as well please.
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Shelby Babb
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ninjaru wrote:
[
The artwork is well done and definitely not porn. So where is the problem? Really I don't get it. Can somebody please explain this to me?


The problem was two-fold: first of all the original campaign prominently displayed a piece I called "pensive ass girl" in its banner ads here. Sad looking, white haired girl in thin lingerie looking over her shoulder (at an impossible angle). Which made it kind of awkward for some of us every time we visited this site. Secondly, it was... not very good. If they wanted pictures of pretty women, they had better ones to use, but those showed less ass, so.... I mean, I'm quick to support Kingdom Death Monster from the Morality Police, but this was just handled badly.

In the -current- campaign, pensive ass girl seems to be gone.
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Mario Engel
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San Dee Jota wrote:
ninjaru wrote:
[
The artwork is well done and definitely not porn. So where is the problem? Really I don't get it. Can somebody please explain this to me?


The problem was two-fold: first of all the original campaign prominently displayed a piece I called "pensive ass girl" in its banner ads here. Sad looking, white haired girl in thin lingerie looking over her shoulder (at an impossible angle). Which made it kind of awkward for some of us every time we visited this site. Secondly, it was... not very good. If they wanted pictures of pretty women, they had better ones to use, but those showed less ass, so.... I mean, I'm quick to support Kingdom Death Monster from the Morality Police, but this was just handled badly.

In the -current- campaign, pensive ass girl seems to be gone.


Ok, I understand that. Thank you. But still not ok to be insulting.
 
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Anon Y. Mous
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It's not about the artwork itself or about anyone "getting offended", it's the fact that that type of advertising, even if statistically it works, comes across as really tacky. Like the sort of advertising a shitty mobile game would use.
 
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