Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
15 Posts

Triumph & Tragedy» Forums » Rules

Subject: Several rule clarification regarding combat please rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
robbie z
msg tools
mbmbmb
We had our second game today and the following questions came up. I tried to look it up in the rulebook but didn't find a satisfactory answer. hope to get some help here.

1. when player A takes over a city such as Barcelona in Spain, but Madrid is still in control of player B. Can player A generate new cadre units in Barcelona or wait till take control over the country?

2 if player A commits a violation of neutrality, and the land battle didn't finish in that season say Fall. During the following year spring, will the armed minor attack the forces of player A automatically or wait till player A strikes again?

3. Can player assign new cadres to straits such as Gibraltar?

4. In order for a player to take over a country, it has to eliminate all enemy units correct? so in the case when player A finishes all the units apart from a submarine unit. the area still belongs to player B or what comes next?

5. when a sub escapes, how to eliminate it, because it will pose a blockade in trade routes.

6. Regarding DOW, say Axis declares war on Soviet or West, then their factor y cost respectively will drop by two and one. will axis have any opportunity of lowering its factory cost? since i remember from the rulebook that the dow is a two way process?

Out of curiousity, how long does it take all to complete a game? it seems the whole game can last 7-8 hours?

thank you for your help!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
marc lecours
Canada
ottawa
ontario
flag msg tools
mbmb
robbie2046 wrote:


1. when player A takes over a city such as Barcelona in Spain, but Madrid is still in control of player B. Can player A generate new cadre units in Barcelona or wait till take control over the country?


Only Fortresses can be built outside your home territory. So player A can build a fortress in Barcelona (if Barcelona has no enemy units in it). No other unit can be built in Barcelona. So Italian units can be built in Italy (not in Libya).

Quote:
2. if player A commits a violation of neutrality, and the land battle didn't finish in that season say Fall. During the following year spring, will the armed minor attack the forces of player A automatically or wait till player A strikes again?


An "armed neutral" will wait. They do not attack. If the neutral becomes a satellite then they are essentially now part of their owning great power and thus they can attack.

Quote:
3. Can player assign new cadres to straits such as Gibraltar?


Yes one new fortress can be built in Gibraltar (but there is a limit of one fortress per area.) No other type of unit can be built outside of the home territory. Britain can only build non fortress units in the London area and in the Glasgow area. (in the new edition, I believe that Canada has been added as a Home territory for Britain but I am not certain.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
marc lecours
Canada
ottawa
ontario
flag msg tools
mbmb
Quote:


4. In order for a player to take over a country, it has to eliminate all enemy units correct? so in the case when player A finishes all the units apart from a submarine unit. the area still belongs to player B or what comes next?


At the end of a land combat round any naval, submarine or air unit without ground support must immediately retreat. Ground support means there must be an infantry, tank or fortress remaining in the area. So after a combat round, a lone remaining submarine would have to retreat. This is to take over an area.

Quote:
5. when a sub escapes, how to eliminate it, because it will pose a blockade in trade routes.


Subs are very difficult to kill. As the British I go hunting for a 1 point sub with two 1 point carriers, a few 1 point air forces, a 2 point fleet and a few 1 point fleets. You have to send a carrier and a stronger carrier after the sub. At the same time you have to cover all the areas om your convoy route that the sub could move to (each with a 1 point fleet or air force unit).

Your carrier is important since it hits the sub on a 1 or 2 before the sub can escape (dive underwater). The 2 point fleet is there in case the sub decides to fight it out. The fleet should be a little stronger than the carrier to absorb losses.

If the sub survived, it blocks trade routes through its sea. On your next turn you can attack it again with your carrier. The carrier is important otherwise you could never get a shot at the sub.

Quote:
6. Regarding DOW, say Axis declares war on Soviet or West, then their factor y cost respectively will drop by two and one. will axis have any opportunity of lowering its factory cost? since i remember from the rulebook that the dow is a two way process?


No...the only way to lower factory costs for Germany is to not declare war and hope that the USSR or Britain declares war on you. This is the penalty for starting the war. In game terms the historical sequence was that Germany violated the neutrality of Poland, then the British faction declared war on Germany. So in game terms Germany would have have a lowering of production costs.

Britain is a special case, it also gets to lower production costs when the USA becomes a satellite. When a great power declares war on another Great power both powers stop receiving peace dividend chits for the rest of the game.

Quote:
Out of curiousity, how long does it take all to complete a game? it seems the whole game can last 7-8 hours?


My group of gamers are particularly slow, so 7 hours sounds right. It can finish much earlier if war starts late. If I was playing with 2 clones of myself, I could finish a game in about 5 hours.



P.S. When you ask rules questions, it is better to ask each question in a separate post with titles evocative of the question. This is so that other players consulting the rules questions can know what rule is being discussed in each post.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
juerg haeberli
msg tools
5) An escaped sub cannot be eliminated in the season during which it escaped.

You can attack it again during your next season.

6) Only the industry of the DoW'ed power gets cheaper.

4) Yes the area still belongs to the owner of the sub.
If the sub is not in his countrys capital area this power will never build a unit again.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
robbie z
msg tools
mbmbmb
Thank you for your reply. Marc.

Only Fortresses can be built outside your home territory. So player A can build a fortress in Barcelona (if Barcelona has no enemy units in it). No other unit can be built in Barcelona. So Italian units can be built in Italy (not in Libya).

I am reading the rulebook 8.2 Satellites part.

Place units of that Faction’s Great
Power (any type) in the Minor’s Cities
and Towns according to their Muster
Values as follows:

• a 3 CV unit in a CapitalCity
• a 2 CV unit in other Cities
• a 1 CV unit in Towns

It seems to me that players can choose at their own discretion what type of cadre unit to put in the place where they have the control. so for the spain case, if player A takes over Barcelona, he can place a control mark on Barcelona and assign new forces including fortress and other units on it.

Rules regarding fortress unit is

Fortress Cadres/steps can be
built anywhere in undisputed
Friendly Territory, even where
Unsupplied. Major Power
Fortresses must be built in Major Power
National/Colonial Territory. Great Power
Fortresses must be built in all other areas.
Only one Fortress is allowed per Land
Area.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
robbie z
msg tools
mbmbmb
Regarding the submarine elimination, in the case that you are describing, players have to send air forces or carrier into the battle where subs are located, otherwise they will choose to escape without giving fleet an opportunity to fire?

My previous understanding is that subs will fire annd then fleet will do so according to the priority table. then sub will escape. that is not the case?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
juerg haeberli
msg tools

Please note the difference between retreat and submerge.

Retreat can only be avoided if you send a unit that fires before the sub.

To submerge the sub has to survive one round of combat.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hannes Sörensson
Sweden
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
When you take over Barcelona, it doesn't become a satellite, so the satellite rules don't apply. They only come into play when you gain control of a country (not an area) diplomatically.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
marc lecours
Canada
ottawa
ontario
flag msg tools
mbmb
haeberich wrote:

Please note the difference between retreat and submerge.

Retreat can only be avoided if you send a unit that fires before the sub.

To submerge the sub has to survive one round of combat.


haeberich is correct. I had forgotten this part.

example: the British send an air force, a carrier and a fleet against a German sub. First the air force shoots at the sub. Then the Carrier shoots at the sub.

Then the sub has to choose:
1. It can retreat without shooting. This retreat must be to an adjacent area or a rebase through a sea area (even with an enemy because subs can do that) to a land area up to 2 away. In both cases there must not be enemy units in the final area.

2. Or the sub can stay and fire at the british units. Then the british fleet will get to fire. Finally after that one round of combat, the German sub can dive (escape) and stay in the area. The British cannot attack it again until the next season. The sub cuts the trade route through the sea area it is in.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
marc lecours
Canada
ottawa
ontario
flag msg tools
mbmb
robbie2046 wrote:
Thank you for your reply. Marc.



I am reading the rulebook 8.2 Satellites part.

Place units of that Faction’s Great
Power (any type) in the Minor’s Cities
and Towns according to their Muster
Values as follows:

• a 3 CV unit in a CapitalCity
• a 2 CV unit in other Cities
• a 1 CV unit in Towns

It seems to me that players can choose at their own discretion what type of cadre unit to put in the place where they have the control.



Hattes is right. This is not the same situation. This is not building of units. These are one time units that you get when you get a satellite by diplomacy (not by conquest). There are basically two ways to get a neutral to be your satellite:

1. You place 3 influence in the neutral, it becomes a satellite, you muster new units according to section 8.2 of the rules.

2. You place 2 influence in the neutral, it becomes a protectorate, another great power attacks your protectorate (this causes a DOW)which converts it to your satellite, you muster new units according to section 8,2 of the rules.

After that initial muster, you may never build units in that satellite other than a fortress.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
robbie z
msg tools
mbmbmb
I see.

New Cadres. Place a new 1 CV unit of
any type in its Home Territory (2.3). New
Cadres cannot build up any further in that
same Production.

The second sentence about can not build up further refers to creating new cadre units or referring to the cadres just created this turn doesn't get upgrades?

another question is when placing new cadres in Satellites, player has to use great power fortress, but no majaor power? then what use of those major power fortress?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
juerg haeberli
msg tools
You can always build only one step for any unit ( cadre or already existing ) per production phase.

You can build as many cadre units in a home area as you want.

Major power fortresses are built in major powers home territories or colonies.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
robbie z
msg tools
mbmbmb
That makes sense now. Thank you juerg
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
robbie z
msg tools
mbmbmb
This is not building of units. These are one time units that you get when you get a satellite by diplomacy (not by conquest).


Then what happens with conquest then?

Say I control spain through Dow and place a control marker of my great power on it. what forces do i get to deploy there? any type of units or only F unit.

If only F unit, then it means i will have to move all of my forces from my home territory to the colony then.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
marc lecours
Canada
ottawa
ontario
flag msg tools
mbmb
Yes

When taking over a country by conquest, you do not get free units. You can build fortress cadres there (but no other cadres). You can move other units there and build up their strength (one pip per year).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.