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Subject: Diplomacy and Negotiations? rss

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Dave Eisen
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Menlo Park
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Have played this a few times and have have never seen anyone bribe anyone else to take any actions nor have I seen any deals made or deals broken. There's the usual discussion about how Rich already has 4 laurels so we better not let him win any more battles or how Bernard is winning big so we better not let any of his cities rise in status, but that kind of thing happens in every game, even those that do not explicitly allow and encourage negotiation, bribery, and diplomacy.

Is my group missing something? Is this usually a bigger part of the game?
 
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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St Catharines
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Re:Diplomacy and Negotiations?
dkeisen (#27887),

A lot of groups seem to go so far as to ban this sort of thing, and I haven't seen much of it with my own group. Nonetheless, I'm sure that the designers intended more of this, and I would like to read reports from groups that play the game that way.

Say you are leading the attack on a city that is profitable for someone else with a fair bit of influence and a good defence. Why not bribe another player with influence to take the defence? The combined influence power makes taking the defence feasible. You could even get a cut in the gold collected to offset your investment. Someone getting too many laurels? Why not form a cartel to set minimum bids? Remember, this is a game about underhanded stock manipulations. If you aren't forming alliances and playing turncoat then you are missing out on some of the fun -- assuming that your group finds this sort of thing fun.
 
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James Hamilton
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Re:Diplomacy and Negotiations?
I would say that in most of the playtests there was not a lot of deal making but there would usually be some deals in each game.

Common deals are along the lines of:
'If I give you n influence will you raise your bid to fight for city y' or
'Nice Mr Pope, if I give you n gold will you bring your army to my aid'
'What is it worth for the French to attack city a rather than city b'

More unusual:
'Nice Mr Pope, I will pay you x if you don't intervene'
'Mr Pope why don't you join in on someone elses side'
'If you discard that troop tile I will give you x'

Etc.

The game is not really about just deals but there are times when they can be made and benefit both sides.

Yours

James 'Hammy' Hamilton
Frog Four
 
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Ido Magal
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Re:Diplomacy and Negotiations?
I played it last night for the first time, and found that I could extend the utility of Lucrezia Borgia by offering players to not steal their influence in exchange for some cash. Her final worth was some 2 influence, 2 gold, per decade.
 
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Dave Eisen
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Re:Diplomacy and Negotiations?
I played it last night again and had a lot more negotiation/bribery etc. The one that comes to mind is that two players who both wanted the French for the same purpose to lower the same city's status combined their influence points to allow them to cruise in the auction.

Also, yes, some threats regarding who influence would be stolen from when using the appropriate city tile.

Added an interesting element to the game.
 
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Luca Iennaco
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Re:Diplomacy and Negotiations?
dkeisen (#27887),

same for me. We decided to BAN negotiations completely. We allow diplomacy, as you described, but no gold/influence can be passed between players; we feel that the game is much more strategic in this way. Of course someone could prefer a game with more "trading"... what's bad with everyone customizing the game to fit his tastes and enjoy the time spent playing?
 
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Chris Dayley
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Re:Diplomacy and Negotiations?
dkeisen (#27887),
I played it a few weeks ago. I thought the negotiating and bribery added a lot to the historic realism the game tries to capture. Great game.
 
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s nowak
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Our group of 5 played it for the first time and it was a blast! I had one of the family's that has an extra treachery tile and fell behind in military. So I tried the merchant strategy but Naples got hammered in the standings. So I used my gold to bribe the war monger to fight on behalf of Naples. He wanted to laurels so agreed. He fought about 3 wars for me that way (with another player with Naples tiles chipping in on the bribes) In the end I beat the warmonger by one point for first place! I loved the negotiation and treachery aspect of the game and wouldn't play without it. There are plenty of other games that are strategic enough for me without this element. The negotiation is what made this game that much better and interesting, at least for me.
 
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Stephen Shaw
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Luke the Flaming wrote:
dkeisen (#27887),

same for me. We decided to BAN negotiations completely. We allow diplomacy, as you described, but no gold/influence can be passed between players; we feel that the game is much more strategic in this way. Of course someone could prefer a game with more "trading"... what's bad with everyone customizing the game to fit his tastes and enjoy the time spent playing?


I know this post is from 5 years ago (!), but I am wondering how people feel about this now. To me, it is where a good deal of the game is played, can make the difference between winning/losing, and makes the emergent partnerships MUCH more interesting. I think that the game wouldnt be half of what it is without the negotiations.
 
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Tim Harrison
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I wholeheartedly agree with Stephen's assessment.

I'm bummed I missed the game last night. Hope you had more fun than Erin!
 
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