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Subject: 2p game: what is the reason using coins instead of clocks? rss

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Sebastien Maire
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Hi there.

Just received my game, hope being able to put it on the table asap

As we have the designer here, simple question I asked myself: why this 2p variant consisting of using coins instead of clocks? Did you ever try a 2p game with clocks as with higher player count?

Very interested to know how you came to that variant.
 
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Alex Churchill
United Kingdom
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We certainly did The problem was that, when there are only 2 players, every clock counter you give to the opponent is a VP that they're getting and you're not. That's a big difference, and in particular, for a lot of players - not all, but a lot - it would put them off using the other player's devices completely.

In a 2-player game, it's more viable to avoid other players' devices than in a game with more players. You will have almost 50% of the devices, after all, compared to 33% in a 3-player game.

And in particular, the game had a failure mode there. If A is never ever using B's devices, and B is willing to sometimes use A's devices, then A is going to end up with every one of the clock counters. That's a lot of VPs that B isn't getting, and so it was usually *correct* to never use the opponent's devices. Which is obviously undesirable. So the change was made to use coins, specifically because giving the opponent a coin is *less* of a benefit to them than giving them a VP.

I hope you have a load of fun with the game laugh If you're expecting to play it quite a bit with two players, then there are a couple of variants that a few groups have found they prefer. Plenty of people just play the game as it comes out of the box, dozens of times, and find they're very happy with it. But if you find you're using each other's devices too much, or not enough, then you might like to check out these two variations, one in each direction
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Sebastien Maire
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alextfish wrote:
We certainly did The problem was that, when there are only 2 players, every clock counter you give to the opponent is a VP that they're getting and you're not. That's a big difference, and in particular, for a lot of players - not all, but a lot - it would put them off using the other player's devices completely.

In a 2-player game, it's more viable to avoid other players' devices than in a game with more players. You will have almost 50% of the devices, after all, compared to 33% in a 3-player game.

And in particular, the game had a failure mode there. If A is never ever using B's devices, and B is willing to sometimes use A's devices, then A is going to end up with every one of the clock counters. That's a lot of VPs that B isn't getting, and so it was usually *correct* to never use the opponent's devices. Which is obviously undesirable. So the change was made to use coins, specifically because giving the opponent a coin is *less* of a benefit to them than giving them a VP.

I hope you have a load of fun with the game laugh If you're expecting to play it quite a bit with two players, then there are a couple of variants that a few groups have found they prefer. Plenty of people just play the game as it comes out of the box, dozens of times, and find they're very happy with it. But if you find you're using each other's devices too much, or not enough, then you might like to check out these two variations, one in each direction


Thanks for this detailed explanation Alex! Always nice to have the designer involved in forums
I will give it a first try as it is out of the box, and then think about variants if necessary.
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