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Subject: POLL: Who's the loser in a 3p+ game? rss

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Poll: Defining the loser in a 3+ player board game
Poll originally appears here....
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1786220/whos-loser-3p-g...
1. Whose the loser in a 3+ player game?
The player in last place
All players coming in after the first player
2. Who's the loser in a 3+ player game, THOROUGH EDITION
The player in last place
All players coming in after the first player
bacon
Tofu
      258 answers
Poll created by ackmondual
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Warren Adams
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The person that only had two friends to game with?
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Mike
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It depends on the course of the game.

If the final score was 200-190-10 then the guy that got 10 points probably lost worse than the guy who got 190 points. Although maybe the guy whose final score was 10 had 195 points in the last round and took some last minute chance that could have either given him 10 points or cost him 185 points.
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Jorik
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everyone who isn't first.
but the most important bit is the game and how you've done while playing it. if you just muddled along and came in fourth it's a completely different end result then when you can say, "in round four when I chose that action and you spotted a way to counter that which I hadn't seen, and that lost me the game."

but the most important bit is that you should feel that the time was well spend
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Russ Williams
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It simply depends how you're defining the ambiguous multiple-meaning word "loser". (Someone who didn't win? Someone who came in last place, ahead of no one? Someone who did exceptionally terrible?)
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Andreas Pettersson
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HerrJork wrote:
when you can say, "in round four when I chose that action and you spotted a way to counter that which I hadn't seen, and that lost me the game."


Excepting cases like the above, I look at the end result as being winning vs not winning rather than a winning-losing dichotomy (if that distinction makes any sense).

Non-winners might still be interesting, though, if they pulled off something spectacular during the game.

Possible exceptions includes semi coops like Dead of Winter, where an unsuccessful betrayer loses the game while loyalists not fulfilling their personal goals are in the "not winning" camp.
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Harv Veerman
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We usually declare one person "The Winner".
We don't see the point in declaring anybody else anything.
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Pasi Ojala
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The full edition still does not have "None, there is just one winner, and that's final."
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Ron Lacer
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If the winner is way ahead of the others, I sometimes call second place "First Loser"
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Boaty McBoatface
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Usually me (see second response in thread).
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Michael Korson
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tallboy wrote:
The person that only had two friends to game with?


Wow...I shudder to think where that leaves 1Player and 2Player gamers. . .
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Ryan
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"If you ain't first, you're last."

"Brought to you by Carl's Jr."
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Mike Jones
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Everyone not in first 'lost' the game. The one in last place is 'the loser' devil
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Jeremy Gray
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Whenever the topic of "losing" comes up, I maintain that there is 1 winner and (n-1) losers. Having said that, for me I can still take pride in coming in 2nd, despite "losing." Especially if the margin of victory was slim (1 dang point in Dominant Species! Arghhh!),
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ackmondual wrote:
Poll: Defining the loser in a 3+ player board game
Poll originally appears here....
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1786220/whos-loser-3p-g...
1. Whose the loser in a 3+ player game?
The player in last place
All players coming in after the first player
2. Who's the loser in a 3+ player game, THOROUGH EDITION
The player in last place
All players coming in after the first player
bacon
Tofu
      258 answers
Poll created by ackmondual


    So we're looking to clearly define the biggest loser in board game plays now? Is this so we know who buys the next round of beers or something?

    Great game guys! Glen was the winner, and Tina was the loser! Sucks to be you Tina!
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Pete
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maklen9 wrote:
tallboy wrote:
The person that only had two friends to game with?


Wow...I shudder to think where that leaves 1Player and 2Player gamers. . .
We just don't talk about them.

Pete (thinks they're used to that anyway)
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Bryan Thunkd
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You're poll doesn't include "The person in first place." Honestly, I have no idea how to answer for games like Cockroach Poker where only one player loses and it's the guy who has four of a kind or has run out of cards.
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tallboy wrote:
The person that only had two friends to game with?
Don't tell that to the people here who just play with their spouses

That, and I don't know how things are in Australia, but in the US, I wouldn't underestimate just how "barren" some regions are for board gaming. You look at the "what game did you play this week" thread (or whatever the actual phrase and acronym were) and you'll find stark contrasts like
Slow week. I played 3 games of Eclipse, 2 games of Agricola, played 2 more sessions of Pandemic Legacy, 2 games of 7 Wonders, 6 games of Codenames, tried out a couple of kickstarter games that came in etc.

as opposed to...
This week, the planets aligned within a 12 degree arc, and I was able to play, one, whole, game, of Splendor!

Thunkd wrote:
You're poll doesn't include "The person in first place." Honestly, I have no idea how to answer for games like Cockroach Poker where only one player loses and it's the guy who has four of a kind or has run out of cards.

It seems like that's the exception than the norm, so feel free to choose the many of the other games that follow the 'traditional model'
 
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Russ Williams
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Thunkd wrote:
You're poll doesn't include "The person in first place." Honestly, I have no idea how to answer for games like Cockroach Poker where only one player loses and it's the guy who has four of a kind or has run out of cards.

What's the confusion with Cockroach Poker? The guy who has four of a kind or has run out of cards is by definition clearly the loser in that game. (And that person who lost is clearly not "the person in first place".)
 
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Hypothetical situation: You're in second place, Alice is in first place, and Bob is in third. It's your turn, and you've narrowed your choices down to 2 moves.

Move 1: the game ends, Alice wins, you take second, Bob takes third.

Move 2: There's a 90% chance this move will cause Bob to win and put you in last, but a 10% chance it will cause you to win.

Is taking move 2 considered kingmaking? 90% of the time, it's sacrificing your position to help Bob, but there's also a slim chance it will win you the game.
 
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The only loser is the one that didn't have fun. PARTICIPATION RIBBONS for EVERYONE!!!. /sarc


If you aren't first, then you lose. The 2nd place person is the first loser, so they won at something.
 
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Russ Williams
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Ethereality wrote:
Hypothetical situation: You're in second place, Alice is in first place, and Bob is in third. It's your turn, and you've narrowed your choices down to 2 moves.

Move 1: the game ends, Alice wins, you take second, Bob takes third.

Move 2: There's a 90% chance this move will cause Bob to win and put you in last, but a 10% chance it will cause you to win.

Is taking move 2 considered kingmaking? 90% of the time, it's sacrificing your position to help Bob, but there's also a slim chance it will win you the game.

No, that's not kingmaking. Kingmaking is a situation where you cannot win no matter what you do, and your move will determine which other player wins.

In your example, you can win, and with move 2, you are (very reasonably) attempting to win.
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Pete
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russ wrote:
Ethereality wrote:
Hypothetical situation: You're in second place, Alice is in first place, and Bob is in third. It's your turn, and you've narrowed your choices down to 2 moves.

Move 1: the game ends, Alice wins, you take second, Bob takes third.

Move 2: There's a 90% chance this move will cause Bob to win and put you in last, but a 10% chance it will cause you to win.

Is taking move 2 considered kingmaking? 90% of the time, it's sacrificing your position to help Bob, but there's also a slim chance it will win you the game.

No, that's not kingmaking. Kingmaking is a situation where you cannot win no matter what you do, and your move will determine which player other than me wins.

In your example, you can win, and with move 2, you are (very reasonably) attempting to win, provided that I am Bob.
I fixed your statement to reflect the concept of kingmaking as most often practically applied.

Pete (is here to help)
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AMK
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This is pretty simple.

Everyone who didn't win is a loser.

The player in third is a bigger loser than the player in second.
 
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