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Subject: Build Help: Mindthief single target striker? rss

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Rule of Three
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Boston
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I'm playing in a four player team right now.

I've got a Tinker fascinated by AoEs, a Spellweaver also loving AoEs, and a Cragheart who ... also loves AoEs. Lately, my "job" has been to run around invisble and steal money and apply the occassional condition.

I'm about to be Level 3, 3 Perks, and prosperity Level 2. Any suggestions on making it work? Would love to talk shop.

I don't feel like there is a "solid" build option for a wee rat assassin, but it feels ALMOST there?

Thanks all!

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Aaron Yoder
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You've got a lot of perks that give rolling +1, and the ability to remove pretty much all the bad stuff from your deck. An upgrade gives you +2 melee damage with every attack. Pure damage output might not be there, but you can easily stun/disarm/immobilize almost anything you'd like most turns. I'd focus on giving out conditions that render your opponents ineffective.
 
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Wes Holland

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You absolutely can build Mindthief to focus down a single enemy every turn. Concentrate on the +2 Attack Augment, and use Stun/Immobilize to keep that one enemy locked down until you kill him.

It's harder to do this in a 4-player situation since there's more guys coming after you. I've been finding that using the Shield augment is pretty good in 4-player because you can deflect blows while letting your buddies get in on it. Fails against really fast enemies, or anything with Pierce, though.

With your other three teammates focused on AoE damage, I suspect that focusing on debilitating conditions might be the way to go...
 
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toeknee n
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I concur with the above suggestions. Use perks to remove negative modifiers and add rolling modifiers. Use items and abilities that apply poison and wound. Focus on damage Augments when you want to hit hard but don't be afraid to cycle through other ones when needed.

With all the rolling modifiers and removed negative modifiers, it's a good idea to buy blessings (I always did for every scenario).
 
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Brian Lauridsen
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For taking down single targets I think the attack 3 card that gives +2 and 1 exp extra for each negative condition is the best tool the Mindthief has at low level.

Using that I managed to pull off a nice stunt in our latest sessions:

Round 1: Invisibility + the augment that gives muddle and poison
Round 2: Scurry (enhanced with wound) and the attack 1 wound bottom action on the +2 augment. That put Wound, Poison, Muddle on two targets, and through rolling modifiers and items I ended up with 5 negatives on one target, and 4 on the other.

High initiative in the 2nd round and low in the 3rd meant I went first and (using a certain prosperity 2 item) was able to attack both for 14 and 12 damage respectively, effectively killing 2 cave bears in one stroke. Not bad for a little rat thing.
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Grant Stewart
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I find mindthief has a more than sufficient suite of top actions both reusable and burnable, several on fairly desirable bottom actions to build a fairly robust core set of cards, which makes card choices for me commonly examining the bottom action more closely.

Empathic Assault, Frigid Apparition, Fearsome Blade, The Mind's Weakness, Perverse Edge, Scurry is my typical suite of core cards.

Empathetic Assault may actually be one of the weaker choices depending on your party's tendencies? A range 5 attack 4 isn't anything to sneeze at as the damage is respectable, while the bottom action is a significant amount of healing without needing to augment/long rest in case of retaliate or other chip damage.

Frigid Apparition brings a 3 or 5 damage attack depending on The Mind's Weakness status that can stun with setup from Perverse Edge (Or the rolling +2 Ice modifiers, or added higher level cards). Bottom action for default move 2 or lost for move 4 and stunning an enemy offers additional mobility to close out a scenario while the stun can be used to go one on one with bigger threats than usual or longer than usual or simply to let allies catch up to the ranged dork you closed on.

Fearsome Blade has respectable damage and potentially helps disarm traps/etc with the push. Bottom action default move 2 or lost for move 4 and attack offers both double-dipping augment turns and extra mobility to close out a scenario if needed.

The Mind's Weakness is in theory enough to take down MANY high shield enemies given time, and bumps fearsome blade and figid apparition into reusable attack 4 and attack 5 cards. You can also keep it out for some of your rests without actually losing turns depending on number of cards picked up after losing (always aim for even numbers in hand unless you expect to need to play a specific augment's effect or are expecting to swap augments and replay your current one later in the round). Choosing how you want to play this for each rest is usually going to determine how you approach other plays for the round.

Perverse Edge is my backup solution to really high shield enemies or something that needs to die real fast, as well as a reusable stun at short range. Frigid Apparition (augmented by the mind's weakness) or a Withering Claw enhanced Fearsome Blade bottom action makes a reliable setup for the top action to hit strength 7+. The bottom also generates ice which leads into Frigid Apparition on the next turn for another stun. Enhancing the range is probably my choice for the bottom action though I'd also consider wound.

Scurry is a very important repositioning tool and an important enhancement choice for many builds. As Into the Night uses up the typical movement slot for the turn this is a natural pair when running invisible damage avoidance play. The Mind's weakness bottom action can be very important depending on enemy composition and it also competes with other movement actions making scurry into the mind's weakness wounding something one of the few ways to wound a target short of sitting your face next to them for a turn which can be extremely painful. Generally this makes positioning for a desirable bottom action useage far easier than normal -- forcing enemies to move/attack -- moving allies if you brought possession, or even one of the leveled cards. It also significantly enhances the range you can possibly move in a scenario as only two cards bring reusable move 4s of the starter choices and moving 2 for all your turns can easily get you left behind. Moving 5-7 on at least one turn for three or four rests can be the difference between reaching a chest towards the end of a scenario.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Running Scurry and Into The Night looting can make a massive difference in your final experience for a scenario versus simply running the reusable XP top actions. Shield augment and Gnawing Hoard can give the mobility you might otherwise be used to.

Gnawing Hoard and Withering Claw overlap poison access but Gnawing hoard as a summon tends to fall behind REALLY easily once summoned so don't expect it to move from room to room.


Generally you should avoid if at all possible being the focus of enemies or at least limiting it to 1 or 2 that you can stun/muddle/face tank via healing augment or using your heal-move bottom action along with long rests to recover faster without really slowing down. If you bring Gnawing Hoard creating a summon can also help you tank your chosen target/s or draw away undesired foes.

Perk recommendations:
Removing -1s is almost certainly your best first choices, as it goes a long way to at least reducing your dependence on The Mind's Weakness active augment and you can expect to at least do something when swapped off SOMETIMES. Rolling +1s and +2 frost attacks and the Rolling stun attacks are all strong perks in their own right for enhancing damage and STUN IS REALLY GOOD. Removing the +0s after the -1s will leave you with a fairly small deck that tends to do more damage but is more likely to miss your big attacks as advantage and hitting multiple enemies each turn is generally going to be harder for Mindtheif than anyone else.

My Choices of cards for my Level 3 Mindthief

Level 2
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Hostile Takeover was my choice - I'm a big fan of Frigid Apparition as a strength 3 attack, and the extra frost element card is quite welcome for higher uptime on the element and potential stun effect. Occasionally our Spellweaver might care about the spare element too.
I considered tying to go for a summon route to draw more modifier cards, but adding a reusable range 4 attack to my suite seemed quite nice. Reduces demand for me to risk taking melee attacks as I can immobilize. Can't access augment benefits from the attack but 2 is reasonable with my damage weighted perk deck. As a bottom action that scales directly with enemy threat it at least won't fall TOO much behind later. Turning a particularly damaging elite enemy against the other enemies could be attack 5 or something on a turn or get us access to status effects we might not normally have. Also retaliate vs shield enemies.

Wretched Creature would've given me a much more mobile summon than the base one but I doubt it would do a very good job of staying alive. Move 3 bottom action is slightly worse but a possibly better summon than wretched creature brings. Dark element is rare enough to generate for me that I didn't really expect to use the curse effect much/at all. Maybe I would make a different choice if we were at a different point but as my first character there wasn't anything available to make me pick this at the time.

Level 3
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Silent Scream was my choice - At 2 damage on the augment and a strict upgrade over the level 1 healing augment effect I couldn't complain about the top action. Having picked up some summoning items I have a bit of incentive to stick to this when slugging it out. Being able to heal the other players as well helps us spread the burden of staying alive as our tinkerer-spellweaver-cragheart-mindthief party really does not have anyone who jumps into the front and takes damage, mostly because the cragheart moves fairly slowly and is mostly an artillery battery with propensity to backup-ammo+huge boulder groups of enemies or walk into them to kill them. I prefer the bottom action over the level 1 healing augment's for the slight mobility upgrade over default movement actions. I don't really like the idea of foregoing bringing a healing augment as I still find myself using it. An additional push effect and potential XP on bottom action is welcome utility.

Brain Leech was a much closer choice -- a strength 4 ranged attack and 4 healing is nothing to sneeze at certainly. Not really sure what use darkness element would be for me so that wasn't a draw. Bottom action attack strength 1 was tempting as was access to strengthen self for advantage. Double-tap augment turns are real strong melee turns and the potential turn and a half of advantage would be a fairly reliable extra draw to three extra draws from the modifier deck, and until the rolling modifiers get added avoids any chance of missing on an important lost attack in the following round. Part of why I didn't pick this was I wasn't immediately sure which of my bottom actions I would typically be replacing for this effect. I'd rather be using specific card effects that are better more frequently than hauling a card as an attack 2 / move 2 default action choice on most turns until I am able to setup the specific situation the card is useful in, and I'm not sure how often I could setup bottom action brain leech if I'm also looking at likely perverse edge bottom action, possibly also throwing in an into the night invisibility (3 non-moving bottom actions)


I looked at the level 4 card options
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Both look absolutely delicious but for very different reasons.

Pilfer's top action is more gold overall in the game and if I start enhancing cards sometime soon will probably be very tempting. The bottom action is also absurd as a potential triple tap of an augment in a turn.
Possibly running three attack 4s in a turn seems like a dream for the mindthief -- either something will probably end up very dead or you will kill one target or the other with the various attacks.

Cranium overload probably won't hit the dream target of an enemy with 6 more around it, but even two attacks after killing an enemy seems perfectly acceptable. A move 5 begs for jump enhancement or boots and is simply good enough to be a primary move action until you DO find that target for the top action.

I already want to be picking up Brain Leech as I stand but it probably doesn't outweigh either of these cards. Unless the level 5 cards are very situational I probably won't be able to pickup any of the extras.
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Brian Lauridsen
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A few comments on the early cards:

Level 3:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
I also picked silent scream as my level 3 card because of the heal augment. I hardly ever used the heal, however, much to my surprise. Instead it's the the bottom action that I bring it for. Moving and pushing enemies without attacking is pure gold for positioning and exploiting dangerous terrain. Shield and retaliate do not come into play. I probably did more damage to enemies with this card than any other.


Level 4:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Cranium overload is just too hilarious to miss. A card that makes monsters heads explode? What's not to like? And the best movement option the Mindthief has for bottom action (so far). I really want to enhance this card with Disarm (top) and Jump (bottom), but that's an expensive project. Also note that in the 2nd edition the hit point restriction has been removed from this card.

Pilfer is also very tempting, and I am actually going to pick this at level 5. There is a great card at level 5, but I think this one will be more fun, as well as helping finance enhancements.


Level 5:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Mass hysteria: Great combination card. Especially the bottom action with 2 enhancements active looks promising.

Frozen Mind: Looks weak in comparison, but probably stronger on its own.
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Kath D
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For perks, I went with an aggressive deck-slimming strategy - I removed four -1s and four 0s (though my first perk was 'ignore scenario effects' which I don't regret for a second). I donate to the temple every time we're in town, and have enhanced the 'move 2, heal 2' card with a bless (only costs 50g!), so I've got a *lot* of x2 cards in my very small deck.

If you're going up against very tough enemies (e.g. we had a scenario with only elites!), then the poison/muddle augment is great. Otherwise, I tend to roll with the +2 damage augment, as the extra damage is more useful against normal creatures that will go down in fewer hits.
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Warren Zdan
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I don't have the game in front of me, so I'm not 100% sure about the item names, but I enjoyed playing my mindthief with his +2 attack augment, and the
Spoiler (click to reveal)
versitile daggger (the one that makes top generic attacks 3 instead of 2), comfortable shoes (make the bottom generic move 3 instead of 2), and horned helm (+1 to all attacks after moving at least 3)
. So if I had nothing better to do with the cards I had in hand, I could always just take the generic actions for an attack 6 every turn
Spoiler (click to reveal)
(plus sometimes extras if I was playing with a 2nd augemnt)
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